The JJ Abrams franchise has jumped subgenres from soft science fiction to space opera. That's why die-hard trekkies are pissed.
It'sspace opera.
Star Trek - Into Darkness
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Kreugen
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I doubt they'd agree with you on the 'soft' bit, is the thing. Also, lol at the first lines from your link:
"There is no general agreement as to what [space opera] is, which writers are the best examples, or even which works are space opera".[1] They further note that space opera has had several key and different definitions throughout its history; definitions that were significantly affected by literary politics.[1] They argue that "what used to be science fantasy is now space opera, and what used to be space opera is entirely forgotten"
Applicable.
Yeah, they basically wrote off the hard core trekkies to make the franchise appeal to a broader audience. That's good for the studios. That's good for the theaters. That's good for your average movie goer. Can't really blame Paramount for taking Trek to a place where it makes them buckets of money.
That's no different than people saying, "I can't tell you what art is, but I know it when I see it".
Phazael
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Dumar is rapidly becoming the Utnayan of this tread.
Sorry about your penis, bro. As someone who like Kruegen watched the originals before TNG even existed, I greatly enjoy both for thier merrits. Sorry you can't see past your own nerd hipsterism on this one.
Sorry about your penis, bro. As someone who like Kruegen watched the originals before TNG even existed, I greatly enjoy both for thier merrits. Sorry you can't see past your own nerd hipsterism on this one.
Kreugen
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I always felt that TNG tried way too hard to be cerebral when it abandoned all of the humor and campiness and fun of the original. While most episodes are interesting, they are often not very entertaining. There tends to be long boring stretches between the episodes that have a better balance. I'm actually watching them all for the first time right now. I'm on S5. I kind of expected more run ins with the Borg etc and not quite so many episodes about Ryker trying to bang an androgynous alien that sees his beard and decides its a woman now.
Maybe that's why this movie is a lot closer to what I want out of Star Trek, because TOS was what I knew first. And I watched Wrath of Khan on HBO over and over back in the day. (it was on almost as often as Rocky. Almost.)
Maybe that's why this movie is a lot closer to what I want out of Star Trek, because TOS was what I knew first. And I watched Wrath of Khan on HBO over and over back in the day. (it was on almost as often as Rocky. Almost.)
Phazael
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TNG was a good show, but it was as you said very cerebral. It took three seasons before Rodenberry more or less got marginalized and it picked up, which is pretty much what happened with both DS9 and Voyager (though the latter never got especially good). The best episodes of TNG were generally anything involving Data or Worf kicking ass, or failing that Picard making grand political points. Frankly, episodes involving Troi, La Forge, or Crusher were snooze fests. LaForge was just some forever alone dude until they expanded his bromance with Data. Troi got a little more interesting when she started banging Worf, though.
Tarrant
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He didn't say it was cerebral, he said it tried way to hard to be.
It wasn't. Also, Rodenberry hated the whole idea and concept of DS9 and his estate was pissed it continued production after his death. It was against his whole vision of what Star Trek was....and yet it ended up being one of the best.
It wasn't. Also, Rodenberry hated the whole idea and concept of DS9 and his estate was pissed it continued production after his death. It was against his whole vision of what Star Trek was....and yet it ended up being one of the best.
Phazael
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I think it was. There were entire episodes like the song flute one or the Riker in the insane asylum one that essentially were introspective character pieces. It was also jammed to the gills with Shakespearian references. Not sure what a show would have to do to qualify as cerebral among sci-fi genres, but I don't know of another one off hand that went as far in that direction. Maybe Blakes 7? However you want to label it, TNG was probably the closest to true science fiction that the Trek universe has gotten, before or since. And it was frankly boring at first. God Alien of the Week crap dominated the first couple seasons. It wasn't until the writers strike ended and the writing team started adding things like the Borg and the Klingon civil war that the show got interesting.
And my point stands that the less Rodenberry had to do with a show, the better it became. He was nearly Lucas-esque in that respect. Compare the first three seasons of TNG to the next four. Generally speaking, all of the modern era series tended to find their legs after the third season, for a variety of reasons. With TNG, Paramount more or less marginalized him (like they did for Wrath). With DS9, his health started failing so Berman and Moore didn't have to suck his dick anymore. Immediate improvement followed. Most egregiously, Rodenberry criticized the direction that Bennett took with Khan in ST2, going as far as to say that he preferred the original series portrayal, and we all know how that panned out.
And my point stands that the less Rodenberry had to do with a show, the better it became. He was nearly Lucas-esque in that respect. Compare the first three seasons of TNG to the next four. Generally speaking, all of the modern era series tended to find their legs after the third season, for a variety of reasons. With TNG, Paramount more or less marginalized him (like they did for Wrath). With DS9, his health started failing so Berman and Moore didn't have to suck his dick anymore. Immediate improvement followed. Most egregiously, Rodenberry criticized the direction that Bennett took with Khan in ST2, going as far as to say that he preferred the original series portrayal, and we all know how that panned out.
http://blip.tv/redlettermedia/half-i...rkness-6592545
These guys, as usual, know their shit.
EDIT: I don't know how to embedz
EDIT2: fucking ads
These guys, as usual, know their shit.
EDIT: I don't know how to embedz
EDIT2: fucking ads
Caliane
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spronk
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bro, everyone knows when you realign the dilithium crystals in the warp core matrix you create chronotron particles that can be channeled through the deflector array to reverse the polarity of time. its just science, bro.
the redlettermedia thing made me realize the movie I thought was ok did kinda suck, fuck! How tribbles can take human blood also made me lol. Best point from that review is spot on though: why didn't ST:ID create its own new stories and conflicts and relationships, instead of ripping off Wrath of Khan, and doing it so poorly? Its all fucking Lindelof's fault, again.
the redlettermedia thing made me realize the movie I thought was ok did kinda suck, fuck! How tribbles can take human blood also made me lol. Best point from that review is spot on though: why didn't ST:ID create its own new stories and conflicts and relationships, instead of ripping off Wrath of Khan, and doing it so poorly? Its all fucking Lindelof's fault, again.
Caliane
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not sure suck is what I would use.
its like comparing "Battleship" and "Transformers".
Neither movie is "good". But, Battleship is what it is. an action set piece.
Transformers is poorly made action set pieces, with offensive dialogue crammed in.
So Battleship gets a pass for being fun nonsense. while Transformers is just offensive.
These startrek movies are Battleship.
its like comparing "Battleship" and "Transformers".
Neither movie is "good". But, Battleship is what it is. an action set piece.
Transformers is poorly made action set pieces, with offensive dialogue crammed in.
So Battleship gets a pass for being fun nonsense. while Transformers is just offensive.
These startrek movies are Battleship.