Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Muligan · Dec 18, 2017

I don't get the Dern vs. Poe issue. I didn't like her character and thought Ackbar could have absorbed some of this but I thought it just stood to reason that Leia would have kept another woman close to her as a protege that she would groom be there to have her back. Regardless, if not for Leia's lack of availability, should would have never been there. Her only point was they wrote Leia's Mary Poppins scene and Dern was playing her No. 2. Either way, they were there to groom Poe to show him the difference in being a dogfighter and a leader. They even both mentioned how much they liked him and you could see they saw his greatness and potential to lead the Rebels one day.

This is an old, cliche theme. They always paint the young guy/girl who is talented yet inexperienced, as some trigger happy, bull headed, full steam ahead individual that has much to learn but will do so one day. In film they always end up being forced to rise to the occasion before "they are read" and they do just fine.

There's much more to be unhappy about than to create this complaint such as...
Phasma
Canto Bight
Ackbar
Mary Poppins
etc.

Ackbar should have been given Holdo's heroic moment and if they have to do the Mary Poppins thing, then sure, let Holdo be the Leia, old friend and student, that stands in to teach Poe to trust in others or whatever. The more I think about it, I would have Leia had used the force to take over for the shields that were failing or once fuel depleted her move the ship out of fire, ultimately force draining her and dying a death similar to Luke's instead of the space stupidity.

Siliconemelons · Dec 18, 2017

LiquidDeath said:
... invisible energy that flows in and around all things...

Unless you are powerful in said invisible energy flow manipulation - in where you then can will yourself to somehow, not be part of the entire thing, when the entire point of the "thing" is that ITS EVERYWHERE AND IN EVERYTHING FOR FUCK SAKES THATS STUPID....aggahrherhehfjhfd

Ladro · Dec 18, 2017

I saw this late last night, still processing it. Seeing it again Tuesday with coworkers for a stupid holiday event so maybe I'll pick up on things I might have missed. I don't disagree with some of the sentiment here but while I didn't walk out of the movie super excited for the next one, I didn't leave thinking it was terrible to the degree of some of the comments. As someone who saw the first one in 77' as a kid, I still thought this was a good movie with some faults.

Few things off the top of my groggy head:

Kid at the end used the force to pull the broom to him right? So basically there will never be a last Jedi because it's not a religion but a rare sense of the surrounding universe.
I swear I saw the Jedi texts in a drawer that Fin opens at the end of the movie. How did they get there? If Yoda didn't destroy them does that mean Rey stole them before leaving? Or am I imagining this?
I really have no idea what the next movie is about, which is my core problem. Snoke is dead, Kylo is an idiot and will self destruct and/or redeem himself, Luke is a force ghost, Leia is basically dead next movie anyway, there are no more official Jedi so who will train Rey or who will she even have to train for?
Purple hair lady was stoic and regal enough as she should be for the position she held. Wisdom vs bravado was definitely the message there. I feel this more as I've gotten older so it resonated with me.
The lightspeed jump into that capital ship was fucking amazing. Effects and cinematography wise, it was really impressive to me. I actually gasped out loud in a dead quiet theater. But - why the fuck didn't they do that before? Seems like anyone could do that if they wanted to, would have game overed the whole movie in the first hour.
Space Leia was dumb but I get it. She's still connected to the Force and is powerful enough to use it. To be fair the vacuum of space won't kill you so theoretically it would be possible but she should have been dead from the blast. I was sad when they were showing her body floating and I thought it wasn't a bad tribute to Carrie Fisher but then she opened her eyes and I kind of rolled mine a little and groaned.
Rose was a stupid arc but Star Wars has always been about love and relationships vs hate and oppression. Fin and Rey can never happen or it would be way too much like Anakin and Padme, so giving him another love interest and an arc to support it makes sense. Agree that the casino was a bit prequel like though.

Chris · Dec 18, 2017

Admiral SJW's plan seemed to depend on the first order not looking out of a window and seeing the fucking ships.

Where are Lando and Mon Mothma? Vaporised Republic Fleet that docks in only one star system?

Siliconemelons · Dec 18, 2017

re muh lightning!

I did not notice, co worker told me - Rey took the texts and they were shown in the falcon - so yoda was mostly tricking out luke for a moment

the entire "The jedi order needs to end" was 110% a flake fake out, 299% bullshit if rey kept the books

Morrow · Dec 18, 2017

Qhue said:
Rian Johnson employed the age-old technique of 'show don't tell' to good effect. This is why he got his own trilogy.

I'm not sure you understand what "show don't tell" means. Unless it means you show that things magically happen without explaining them by making, for instance, the First Order suddenly go from a splinter organization to controlling the galaxy, then yeah, sure, he sure showed us.

That was terrible writing on many, many levels. He doesn't pass any writing classes and he doesn't get any certificates or awards, he broke all the right rules for all the wrong reasons and cheated in all the wrong ways and none of it was innovative or groundbreaking, it was just cheap.

Fight · Dec 18, 2017

RIP Star Wars.

Phazael · Dec 18, 2017

I liked the movie well enough for a SW movie (they are all flawed on various levels), but there were two things I could not get around:

You establish in TFA that hyperspace jumps let you bypass physical objects when the Falcon warps past the hanger door and later does not richochete off the atmosphere of Starkiller base, but somehow the MC75 becomes the 911x1million space missile of doom with its hyperdrive? How the fuck are there even capitol craft when you can make FTL fighters and use them to ram large targets? It was visually the coolest scene in the movie, but broke with their own fucking rules in the universe they set the prior movie no less.

Second, The Snokemobile is chasing them for almost a full day and no one gets on their space phone and asks another fleet to warp in opposite of the path of the fleeing rebels? How about six of the Star Destroyer picket that are escorting you? I get its starwars and they fuck things like basic physics up all the time, but holy shit this is the first thing I thought of.

The others stuff did not bother me. Angry old Luke was enjoyable and SW is notorious for one note characters.

Morrow · Dec 18, 2017

Kreugen said:
Oh ffs, tone down the red pill gamergate moronic shit, it wasn't "lol womyn r better than men", it was CLEARLY age/experience vs youth/bravado and the pro/cons of each. Especially when it comes to making sacrifices when they really count. It was about learning from mistakes and moving on as a wiser person. It you don't catch that the first ten times the movie hammers on it, it gets spelled right the fuck out when the past is literally (der) killed with fire.

[

As someone that hates gamergate red pill shit, I sure wish you were right, but it's just not the case. It was not CLEARLY age/experience vs youth/bravado when every single male character was fucking moronic. Even the black man had to have oppression explained to him LOL. Come the fuck on. I'm pissed because I want *cue cheesy music* the world to come together, for the right/left to come together, for men/women to come together and for people to stop being so divisive and hateful, and yet this film is just ridiculous fuel for the fire because it's so brazenly "men are dumb dumb and need the help of women and girls, here, let's show you all the ways men are stupid and need help. It may not have been entirely intentional, but that's how it comes off. If the sexes were reversed there'd be an outcry, and again I can't believe I'm fucking saying shit like this, but it's true. Was there one male character that made a good decision on his own other than Benicio? Who happened to be on the "wrong" side? Even Kylo couldn't do what was "right for him" without Rey's fucking help. It was sickening.

Can't believe I'm making these arguments. Fuck you Rian Johnson for making me sound like a gamergate red piller, fuck you fuck you fuck you. But I can't ignore it just because I don't like the people that usually spout these arguments and I don't agree with these types of claims 99% of the time, and yet here we have a golden example of it. /vomit

Gavinmad · Dec 18, 2017

Morrow said:
Fuck you Rian Johnson for making me sound like a gamergate red piller

Yeah I can see how sounding logical and rational would be uncomfortable for you.

Erumaron · Dec 18, 2017

The previews were especially bad with the SJW shit (probably mentioned earlier in this thread but I'm not doing a full re-read... just saw this last night).

Siliconemelons · Dec 18, 2017

Lucas liked it because there were tons of randomly added in CGI things that were not previously seen/shown to exist - such as the tit animal and the caretakers - and well 90% of anything on the damn island that cant be seen from the 10000 flyovers of a little green speck of an island that has a few dozen coves no one can see until the characters need them.

And I bet Lucas has a huge back story for the random sea monster that was CGIed into the background of a scene on the island for no reason - bet he was crying in joy.

Morrow · Dec 18, 2017

Gavinmad said:
Yeah I can see how sounding logical and rational would be uncomfortable for you.

Maybe you'll grow too one day, and we all won't be so divisive.

Royal · Dec 18, 2017

Ladro said:
I swear I saw the Jedi texts in a drawer that Fin opens at the end of the movie. How did they get there? If Yoda didn't destroy them does that mean Rey stole them before leaving? Or am I imagining this?

I really have no idea what the next movie is about, which is my core problem. Snoke is dead, Kylo is an idiot and will self destruct and/or redeem himself, Luke is a force ghost, Leia is basically dead next movie anyway, there are no more official Jedi so who will train Rey or who will she even have to train for?

Yes you saw the books. She took 'em.

A they will probably play a part in Rey learning more about the force, at least from the traditional jedi perspective. As for who will train her the logical assumption would be Luke as a force ghost but it would also present an opportunity for them to introduce holocrons to the movie side of things. Luke may have had some or know where some are. I don't know if Rey will end up re-establishing the Jedi Order or not. Luke's speech wasn't exactly a vote of confidence in the idea of doing so. But a new order with some modifications to their traditions might be what actually follows.

Laedrun · Dec 18, 2017

Look at Mark Hamill’s face when they’re talking to Rian Johnson after the premiere, mouth hanging open, slack-jawed, poor bastard.

Royal · Dec 18, 2017

Laedrun said:
Look at Mark Hamill’s face when they’re talking to Rian Johnson after the premiere, mouth hanging open, slack-jawed, poor bastard.

I know he probably still has some issues with Johnson's take on Luke even with people praising his performance all over the place. But the US premier is the exclamation point on the very long promotional tour they run these guys through every time. As one of the oldest members of the cast he's probably exhausted by that point.

Evernothing · Dec 18, 2017

So if they can just Allah Akbar lightspeed jump through giant ships to destroy them, why do they use fighters and bombers and lose like 20 pilots and ships? They should have just jumped through Starkiller Base, Death Star 1 and 2, and the Executor. They wouldn't even need to lose a real pilot, just have a droid fly it.

Siliconemelons · Dec 18, 2017

Laedrun said:
Look at Mark Hamill’s face when they’re talking to Rian Johnson after the premiere, mouth hanging open, slack-jawed, poor bastard.

Hamill has been telling us its shit in the best way his NDA can... at least he was not all that up with the way they took his character... for fuck sake the emotional tension that TFA left us with, finally getting a resolve with "eh, fuck it" toss**

Fight · Dec 18, 2017

Evernothing said:
So if they can just Allah Akbar lightspeed jump through giant ships to destroy them, why do they use fighters and bombers and lose like 20 pilots and ships? They should have just jumped through Starkiller Base, Death Star 1 and 2, and the Executor. They wouldn't even need to lose a real pilot, just have a droid fly it.

It completely breaks the logic of space battles for everything we know before and after the movie. If this were a viable option, they would be cranking out droid-piloted hunks of space metal and strapping hyper-drives on them.

Rian Johnson gave zero fucks about anything that came before him, and apparently after him as well. Seriously, fuck that guy.

sukik · Dec 18, 2017

I looked up Rian Johnson and he was the writer for looper, which wasn't a bad movie and had a narrative that made sense. How did he bungle this movie so badly? I expected the telltale 10 writers credited when I looked at the writing credits for TLJ but it's just him.

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