Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

ROTJ
ESB
SW (not calling New Hope)

Muligan said:

People are really reaching hoping that what they have seen is not the reality. I hate to them but theories such as the one below is far more thought than the directors have put into the connecting pieces of the movie. Maybe JJ will take advantage of just how open the movie was left...

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Problem with theories now is that they've admitted they have no plan and are more than willing to retcon and ignore plot points from previous films. Hints or foreshadowing means little to nothing cause it's all just random shit being thrown out there by the current writer and the next guy is just gonna do whatever he wants.

As someone who is a pretty big fan of crazy fan theories TLJ kinda killed any enjoyment of that for me in the Star Wars universe.

wat said:

Problem with theories now is that they've admitted they have no plan and are more than willing to retcon and ignore plot points from previous films. Hints or foreshadowing means little to nothing cause it's all just random shit being thrown out there by the current writer and the next guy is just gonna do whatever he wants.

As someone who is a pretty big fan of crazy fan theories TLJ kinda killed any enjoyment of that for me in the Star Wars universe.

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Yup. It's like they don't understand how to build hype and/or simply don't care because they don't need to.

Oh man Kevin Smith loved it. Damnit Kevin Smith.

wat said:

Problem with theories now is that they've admitted they have no plan and are more than willing to retcon and ignore plot points from previous films.

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Fan theories in the era of new canon have always cast too wide of a net in their effort to piece shit together for the movies. That's one of the reasons why I've never found them all that interesting and to the limited extent that I've followed them it's been more to get a chuckle out of how far some of them dig down into the details that hold them together than anything else.

This unified canon is a marketing device, pure and simple. It attempts to leverage the popularity of the movies to build interest and demand for the secondary materials (books, comics, tv shows, etc). It's obvious when you consider the backfill nature of all that stuff (ie. a movie comes out then the flood gates of expanded materials open up to start filling in all of the gaps left in it's wake).

Consume those things because they entertain you or you find the stories to be worthwhile. Consume them because you enjoy the world building they bring. Consuming them to get a bead on where the movies are headed is a fool's errand.

Just watched this. Movie lost me when Princess Leia Superman’d through outer fucking space. What the hell was that?

Morrow said:

Yup. It's like they don't understand how to build hype and/or simply don't care because they don't need to.

Oh man Kevin Smith loved it. Damnit Kevin Smith.

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Kevin smith also loved TPM. So....he doesn't know jackshit

Yeah when it comes to comic book movies and Star Wars he readily admits that he is extremely easy to please.

Got around to seeing it yesterday. I've never felt so blueballed by a movie.There are so many moments where you get a glimpse of how great it could be, which is then immediately snatched away and replaced by something utterly trite.

Luke turned introspective and reclusive in his old age? An interesting turn, immediately spoiled by throwing pointless dumb aliens and misplaced humor into it.
Dramatic Leia death scene? Nope lets do a cheesy save at the last minute using her previously unknown powers which are never used again.
Rey and Kylo Ren establishing a connection and joining forces? Nope back into your black and white boxes you go.
Finn's ready to kill himself for something he believes in? Nope last minute save because of "love".

Christ there's so many of these cocktease moments where the table is set for something interesting to happen, and then it doesn't. It feels so close to being fantastic at times. I'm reminded of the old adage of perfection not being when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

Royal said:

A 60% drop would be right in line with R1 which had Christmas Eve, historically one of the worst movie attendance days of the year, land right in the middle of that weekend. But it also included Christmas Day, one of the stronger attendance dates, to then offset that. That's not the case this year. It's also worth noting that the box office tracking predictions you see out there for this weekend aren't sourced from the same group that all of the entertainment media cites figures from for the rest of the year. comScore doesn't even put Christmas week figures out in advance because historically the figures for that week are so uneven, specifically the lead up/final shopping days for the holiday itself. These figures you're seeing are being tabulated by the individual publications themselves.

But to an extent none of that matters. The dissatisfied fans may be a minority but there are enough of them, and Star Wars fans in general, to make all of those "The Last Jedi is dying at the box office" stories very attractive headlines for websites to run stories on. Lucasfilm's problem then starts to look an awful lot like WB's with it's DC movies. A narrative of failure starts to take hold and the casual movie goers start to assume the movie is bad based purely on the number of headlines they're seeing indicating that it even might be, regardless of what the majority of people who have seen it think of it.

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There's more than just direct weekend to weekend comparisons to make to show escalating declines. Again, maybe not fair against TFA because of the intense hype, but against RO, I think so. I'd bet TLJ's multiplier end up less than RO.

And, Xmas Eve is pretty far from being one of the worst movie attendance days of the year. Even in the context of holiday weekends, it's not. In comparison to the 23rd or 25th, sure.

Heylel said:

Anything with an alien was very prequelish. It wasn't just the space walrus teats.

I'll rewatch it at some point, but I've gotten angrier with time. I came out of the movie thinking it was fine but nothing special, but the more I talk to other people the more annoyed I get. Rian Johnson *intentionally* took all of the mysteries and setups from TFA and shit on them. He had to subvert every possible expectation, and it's just not any fun. It's Star Wars via M Night Shyamalan.

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Walrus teats was fine to me, highly CG gold drunk leprechaun was not.

What the fuck? Cinemas are open in the US on Christmas Day? In the UK we shut the entire country down.

Zweischneid said:

ESB
TFA
TLJ
ANH
RotJ


The 4 prequels need to be removed from reality.

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And yet, Bail Organa's cameo was badass.

Some moments that irked me:
When Luke gets bombarded by walkers - new walkers were completely unnecessary and overly hyped btw, RO made AT-ATs badass again and then new models snatched it up - then Luke faces Kylo Ben, and they're all like "on no he's going to face the guy we continue to defeat alone! we have to help him!!" : um why didn't anybody say "he just handled a bombardment, he's ok; he's a master multiple times over he's ok" and with the slightest bit of action flicking up the salt to reveal bright red dirt, and the bombardment clearly flicked up dirt, how come afterward the area wasn't a red cratered mess? it was still smooth and white.

del toro's studder thing.

Finn didn't die. he turned fucking obnoxious and I said outloud, albeit at a respectable low volume, "yes! about time you jar-jar"

BB8's comic relief was all fine, it should have been enough. There were a few moments by other characters that were fine. cut the rest. overall, it could have been tighter. Like someone else kinda said, this movie felt more like new Star Trek (which i despise).

the overly kool stances-in-waiting by the red guard.

hyperdrive battering rams - hammerhead corvettes anyone?
When Snoke's dreadnaught was kamikazed, people would have celebrated. They didn't know he was already dead. We've already established that sacrificing half the fleet for a dreadnought was fine by most. this was a super dreadnought with the worst of the worst inside. sacrificing every chaff character in the rebellion to defeat him would have been worth it. additionally, the sole character sacrificed was established unliked but on the path to redemption. Her sacrifice would have been honored with pride (amidst the uproarious celebration), could have been a scene with Poe nodding his head in agreement.
and a Mon Calamari thinking, hmm hyperspace torpedoes.

Why the fuck were those slow bombers used?
Y-Wings are iconic and not one was present. They wrecked shit in RO.
Bombers that slow would never be used . at all eras, SW space battles are filled with effective fighters that would tear through them. Not only were they slow, but they had antiquated manual release modes.. that would get stuck and malfunction??

Not a gripe:
will del toro return as a new Lando?

wat said:

Problem with theories now is that they've admitted they have no plan and are more than willing to retcon and ignore plot points from previous films. Hints or foreshadowing means little to nothing cause it's all just random shit being thrown out there by the current writer and the next guy is just gonna do whatever he wants.

As someone who is a pretty big fan of crazy fan theories TLJ kinda killed any enjoyment of that for me in the Star Wars universe.

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That's exactly my biggest problem with the movie. I'm very forgiving apparently as I put it probably in the 7.5+/10 zone but Star Wars as with epics in general provide that enjoyment to fans. It's one of the best pieces of epics is taking a year and picking a part moments, leaks, social media posts, in attempt to find something. They took that away and that tells me a lot about Rian Johnson. He doesn't care about the fans. They are so wrapped up in their movies and the end product that they screw that up falling into the trap of relishing in their own genius and cleverness.

Lambourne said:

Rey and Kylo Ren establishing a connection and joining forces? Nope back into your black and white boxes you go.

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This stood out above all else for me. The mishandling of Kylo Ren was very damning to the story.

If they worked on Kylo Ren instead of remaking Spaceballs, describing Admiral tranny's hair in the script, how long should she touch Poe's hand in a suggestive manner on the stretcher, and how long they should smile at the goats in the goatpen they freed-- we might have had a followup to TFA on our hands. Instead all we got was a bunch of "ya momma on a stick" jokes. Rian's a shithead.

Movie would have been much more interesting if you moved the Snoke fight to the end and then leave it up in the air what happens between Kylo and Rey next. Heck, something interesting to me is how can you trust someone as evil as Vader or Kylo even if they did come back to the light? You couldn't explore that with Vader because he died, but Kylo?

Entire thing was wasted right after the fight ended.

Worst part is Kylo and Rey had some damn good chemistry in those scenes. Driver is actually a solid actor and Kylo, despite his flaws, is easily the most interesting of the "new generation" characters. Basically all of Rey's good scenes were the ones where he carried her, other than one or two with Luke.

But then after all that buildup they pussy out from taking the dynamic anywhere other than the predictable, well trod path.

The worst part of the movie wasn't the stuff they got horribly wrong, it was the stuff they were so close to getting right but then swerved back into the safe lane at the last moment.

But but but Rian took risks in this movie they said! I agree though with the chemistry between Rey and Kylo. I felt Rey was miles ahead of TFA Rey. She even ticked up a few points of attractiveness looks wise. Maturing 2-3 years has done a lot for her on screen. Everyone turned in some stellar performances for their characters.

How can we criticize the lack of development with so many RISKS. This was a RISKY movie. A quick glance of Rian's IG indeed confirms his life is at RISK, so its gotta be RISKY.