Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Caliane

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hyperspace travel in starwars.
the thing is, as note. Starwars has some tech issues. many of which are intentional for visuals, etc. No paper. no notepads. no railings... is there air in space? is there a vacuum? Navel sea battles in space. gravity. etc. its very silly from a hard science point of view.
but, you have to follow the line of some of this stuff. its why the prequal lightsaber battles fell apart. lightwhips and shit. fall apart. hyperspace guns. hyperspace missles..

starwars has hyperspace lanes. these are preestablished "safe" routes, that you won't fly into things. Galactic exploration in starwars is SLOW due to this. if you want to visit some place new, or unexplored, you have to either travel there, as non light speed very slowly. or, in hyperspace and risk flying INTO things and instant death. Hyperspace exploration is a very risky job.
 
kegkilla

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Jive Turkey said:
This fight was fucking terrible. "Hey lets go for a 5 mile walk and have a lightsaber fight along the way". The parts on the little floaty things over the lava were particularly dumb.
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jayrebb

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Aaron said:
The main problem I have now is that e7 & 8 make the prequels look good in comparison. At least they tried to tell a relatively consistent story in the prequels, and answer some important questions, even if they did it badly. The new films? I have no fucking idea what the story is supposed to be!? It's just a bunch of people haphazardly doing random shit and failing miserably at it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Within what, a 72 hour window? Less? Shoehorned and forced pacing-- 48 hours total from the events of TFA to the end of TLJ. I think Rey spent just 1 night at Lukes? Maybe it was two, who gives a shit.

Forget the lack of "Star Wars" vibe, that's subjective. The reason they won't age well or hold up is because the NT is paced like a TV serial. Cheap. Some people might find them epic. But are they Star Wars space opera epic? No. For a better idea of what space opera is please reference the OT and prequels.

There's a couple cheap tricks to add rewatch value for nostalgia. Yoda appearance, R2 and Luke, etc. I just don't think that's going to cut it. Maybe TFA will get thrown on in a "what could have been" type of way. But you're kidding yourselves if you think people are going to throw on the "Ya momma bitch" movie. Its just that disrespectful to Star Wars.
 
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spronk

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Aaron said:
The main problem I have now is that e7 & 8 make the prequels look good in comparison. At least they tried to tell a relatively consistent story in the prequels, and answer some important questions, even if they did it badly. The new films? I have no fucking idea what the story is supposed to be!? It's just a bunch of people haphazardly doing random shit and failing miserably at it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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In a way its even worse, because it actively undoes the happy ending of ROTJ which the prequels at least don't do. At the end of the ROTJ we had the empire on the way out, the heroes had won and would go on to create a peaceful, just society.

In TFA/TLJ the republic is pretty shitty, gets wiped out in like 2 hours, and some randos are now in charge but we don't really see ANY of it and aren't sure whats going on military / politics / governance wise. Everything about Han, Leia, and Luke is ultra tragic and dark now and gets worse every minute of the story culminating in Han's son killing him.

How FUCKED is it that Princess Leia, who spent the first 30 years of her life working for the people, basically goes BACKWARDS in progression at the end of her life? Everything she tried to create is undone, her son murders everyone she loves, and every second of TLJ her reach diminishes. Its the anti retirement. Luke has a slightly less life, although he never found anyone to love (wincest too strong?) and has spent the last 20 years as Island Yoda. We don't even get to see whats up with Lando and Chewie, Akbar, and other ancillary chars don't seem to have done that great.

Ironically that missing 10 years right after ROTJ but before Ben goes psycho would have been the far more interesting movie but alas the cast had aged too far past that.
 
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TomServo

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spronk said:
In a way its even worse, because it actively undoes the happy ending of ROTJ which the prequels at least don't do. At the end of the ROTJ we had the empire on the way out, the heroes had won and would go on to create a peaceful, just society.

In TFA/TLJ the republic is pretty shitty, gets wiped out in like 2 hours, and some randos are now in charge but we don't really see ANY of it and aren't sure whats going on military / politics / governance wise. Everything about Han, Leia, and Luke is ultra tragic and dark now and gets worse every minute of the story culminating in Han's son killing him.

How FUCKED is it that Princess Leia, who spent the first 30 years of her life working for the people, basically goes BACKWARDS in progression at the end of her life? Everything she tried to create is undone, her son murders everyone she loves, and every second of TLJ her reach diminishes. Its the anti retirement. Luke has a slightly less life, although he never found anyone to love (wincest too strong?) and has spent the last 20 years as Island Yoda. We don't even get to see whats up with Lando and Chewie, Akbar, and other ancillary chars don't seem to have done that great.

Ironically that missing 10 years right after ROTJ but before Ben goes psycho would have been the far more interesting movie but alas the cast had aged too far past that.
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Couldn't agree more. I can appreciate what they have tried to do, but man you can say something interesting and different within the themes established without wholesale shitting on the previous story.
 
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Caliane

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Daezuel said:

This is pretty spot on if you haven't watched it and are bored.
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yeah, this is what I was talking about in that last point, and for the next movie.

This movie should have been littered with sparks of Rebellion, unrest, riots at the destruction of the 5 core senate worlds. The First order scrambling to lock down control. Killing off the Rebels... only to have 100 worlds unite against them. Very Rogue 1 like. As the 400 spartans... I mean Resistance.. are killed to nearly the last man/woman and made martyrs. We can fix on of the movies other major problems by having Finn/rose/Poe NOT on the fleeing Resistance ships in the first place. They should have been off world. And trying to get the hacker to help, from outside, and failing, as happens. Leia and the rest all die. Finn/rose/poe live and spark the new Resistance. and Del Toro's character who was neutral, and a scoundrel, suddenly has responsibility. He chose sides, and he murdered the resistance. that can weigh on him, and encourage him to take up a cause.

And it reminds me of one of the other silly elements of that bomber run. yes the chain explosion. lol. but also, what the fuck were the other destroyers doing?
 
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Khane

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Yea... Poe escaping? Fine. Finn and Rose becoming the main protagonists? Even worse than what we got.
 
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Caliane

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Jive Turkey said:
I can't get behind any alternative storyline in which Rose lives
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heh.

didnt hate her, but people are right, her saving Finn, really really makes no sense. what IS the message? her sister sacrificed herself to save the fleet. The purple hair sacrificed herself to save the fleet.. hundreds died getting out of the base. hundreds more in the fleet. they were down to 24 Resistance... "save what we love" Well, you are doing a right shit job at that..
 
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wormie

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Rose gonna get raped, never trust a black man.
 
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Caliane

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also, I dont see anyone comment on it. but did see people talking about the burning the books/tree. yoda's talk etc.
the books were on the Falcon, in the drawer Finn grabbed the blanket out of.

I thought it was obvious. but didnt see anyone note it. It ALSO is yet another element of this movie contradicting itself. "forget the books, they mean nothing." but jk, we saved the jedi books anyway. so everything yoda and luke said and came to terms with destroying the Jedi's old wisdom is undone, and Rey has the texts to learn from anyway.

watching the RLM vid now. and did want to restate the tonal issue.
I didnt articulate it well. joke/death/joke/sombre fight for survival/joke, cgi slapstick/hopeless flight/joke
tonal whiplash. the seriousness of the film, should not have had that poor jokes and slapstick.
 
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Fuckin lol at the dude calling her Shrek in his rant. Damn that video was great.

Saw this movie for a second time a couple days ago due to family time. Still a piece of shit, still think its worse than the prequels, still have no idea how Rian Johnson not only managed to get away with this pile of crap but that Disney gave him 3 more fucking movies because of it.

Whoever is in charge of if this shitshow known as the new trilogy, Kathleen Kennedy?, is as much to blame as anybody. How the fuck do you decide you're going to make a new trilogy without first knowing the story you're going to tell? Hey guys, lets make a new trilogy and just have each random ass director write their own fucking story and see where it goes. It'll be great! Who the fuck cares what they do to the Star Wars universe, we're gonna make billions either way!
 
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jayrebb

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Pharazon2 said:
Whoever is in charge of if this shitshow known as the new trilogy, Kathleen Kennedy?, is as much to blame as anybody. How the fuck do you decide you're going to make a new trilogy without first knowing the story you're going to tell?
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The only explanation is what Royal said. It's creative is by committee, and Kennedy only steps in on certain things.

Getting rid of Kennedy does fuckall. Lucas Film creative is the problem and their disdain for test audiences. Like Rian said to the committee, "we can't make the movie people want, if we worry about that then we can't make a good movie".

You change leadership without changing how Lucas Film does business, then the end result is the same. This is not Kennedy's problem.
 
spronk

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wormie said:
Rose gonna get raped, never trust a black man.
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its 2017, women can rape and be funny ok

going down a rabbit hole of star wars video i came across this, i had NO idea the initial versions of A New Hope was COMPLETELY different and it took a lot of really amazing people to recut it to what it released as. The scenes with Farmboy Luke are as cringey as anything in TLJ, it really kinda shows how much extra polish it took for movies long ago to get from 1.0 to final version. I HIGHLY recommend everyone watch the whole thing, the deleted Tatooine scenes are just NUTS in how bad they are but its also fascinating how much impact editing has on the finished movie

marcia lucas (george's original wife before he got jungle fever) also sounds like an amazingly talented and unrecognized person

 
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jayrebb

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That's the humor and editing Rian employed. It sucks for fans that Lucas Film creative is working off of this panned rough assembly.

Fucking hipsters think anything old and obscure is cool. Brian de Palma needs to go upside the committee's head. Start with the youngest person in the room.
 
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a c i d.f l y

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So I've been trying to allude this film to other bad films of other series... This is the Star Trek V of Star Wars. OK, maybe not that bad. But getting kicked in the knee cap balls close.
 
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TomServo

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spronk said:
its 2017, women can rape and be funny ok

going down a rabbit hole of star wars video i came across this, i had NO idea the initial versions of A New Hope was COMPLETELY different and it took a lot of really amazing people to recut it to what it released as. The scenes with Farmboy Luke are as cringey as anything in TLJ, it really kinda shows how much extra polish it took for movies long ago to get from 1.0 to final version. I HIGHLY recommend everyone watch the whole thing, the deleted Tatooine scenes are just NUTS in how bad they are but its also fascinating how much impact editing has on the finished movie

marcia lucas (george's original wife before he got jungle fever) also sounds like an amazingly talented and unrecognized person

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Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas are largely responsible for the first movie being great, and them along with Kasdan really kept Lucas in check on the remaining films.
 
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Archeron

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I watched the YouTube (Anti-Cheese) Edits of the prequels where JarJar was partly edited out, all aliens spoke gibberish and were subtitled, and they minimised emo Anakin. I came to have a fondness for those versions of the films.

I am curious to see if the extended cut of TLJ plus some judicious editing can make something more bearable out of this mess.

Sad times.
 
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