Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

They had it right with a new Sith lord, fine with him turning Ben Solo. They just decided to skip any motivations for either character and Snokes entire backstory. The First Order could have been a more guerilla fighter type underdog rather than just thrown in there with planet size weapons and a zillion ships and everything else.

I think the prequels were so universally hated that they just rebooted the original trilogy basic plot of blow up the death star, and added in the younger characters and called it good.
For the older characters Leia being a general was perfect. Han going back to some 2 bit smuggler and Luke on his little island was retarded.

Starwars exists in a galaxy sitting in a 10000 year, "golden age of piracy". there are slavers, rogue nations, rogue planets, pirates, gangs, bountyhunters, assassins, etc.... you can't come up with stories about that without having empire/rebels? come on man.. Even the "external threat" which totally could be done..

But seriously, they should have taken that direction. Small group of rebel "pirates", as the quasi good guys. The Republic acts as the British navy. The pirates, and force sensitive future jedi start out as morally questionable. They rob Hutt Slavers. And, start off a war between Hutt slavers, Pirate nations and the Republic.

kegkilla said:

3) Some other source of conflict (another galaxy?) that would probably be jarring and out of place in Star Wars.

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The EU did exactly that, and it was fucking awful.

Yuuzhan Vong

kegkilla said:

Those would make good anthology type stories, but I don't think any of them would work on a large enough scale to be a continuation of the Star Wars saga. It needs to be a large scale existential crisis with massive space battles and lightsaber battles in order to be the Star Wars saga. It's a space opera afterall.

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Yeah the sagas thus far have all been on more of a grand scale and they should probably keep with that. Let the anthologies have a smaller focus and be willing to serialize some of them (so far they've only indicated they're doing one-off's) to build up the popularity of the characters they introduce that show some traction with audiences. Those will sometimes be unexpected (like Phasma).

Royal said:

I'm saying it seems to me that if he was so interested in just pleasing fans of the previous movie he wouldn't have had to go to the trouble of reading a bunch of fanfics to find out the sorts of things they would like. He wouldn't have to go past social media for that and it would have been a lot harder for people to connect the dots afterwards. All of those payoffs that people are saying they didn't get would have written themselves.

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All I'm hearing you say is that Johnson started to go down a stupid path and stuck his head so far up his own ass that he couldn't see where the fuck he was going and ended up skidding out of control off the side of a cliff. And I agree with you completely.

Del Toro talks character decisions. Actors have ideas all the time for characters. Its up to the director to yay or nay-- and here we get confirmation.

Rian dropped the ball.



The fan criticism said it best. It was the new Boba Fett, but they fumbled it. The fandom around this character could have been crazy.

as far as a NEW trilogy story should have gone, i like elements of the current one but they are overshadowed by just... boring re-hash.

i really like the idea that luke brought the existence of practical force users down to 1 and so the force itself started supercharging people across the galaxy, something like an allegory to the flood, where the force actively works through luke (noah) to destroy all the perverted force users out there (both sith and jedi). once that's done the force awakens (har) a smattering of people across the galaxy. rey could be one of the first, or kylo and his knights (at this point kylo would not have any relation to the skywalkers).

luke really talked about some serious stuff in tlj about how the jedi, in the height of their power CREATED the empire. so while he is technically a jedi, he isn't training anymore jedi (making him the last). what he IS doing, is teaching others the balance of the force (life creates death, death creates life).

during all of this, the new republic is generally in a state of peace, though the galaxy is a big place and there are skirmishes here and there. the majority of the galaxy is under the control of the republic, making the work everyone did in the OT actually mean something. the empire is gone, there are small pockets of them here and there but they are akin to islands in the south pacific still having ww2 era japanese soldiers there, not knowing that the war is over. empire remnants are a curiosity, not a threat.

the threat comes from kylo and his knights meeting up with force sensitives and recruiting them to his side. maybe some of them are sleeper agents, giving off a subtle "who's the cylon" vibe.

maybe in the grand scheme of things, it'd be dumb, i don't know. but i think it would be more cohesive than what we are getting

It's amazing how many articles I passed today talking about TLJ dropping to #2 after only 18 days.
Headline skips the over a billion in 18 days part though.

TJT said:

Going with a remnant of the Empire (The First Order) wasn't a bad idea. It was just executed terribly and makes no sense. Leia and Friends shouldn't be the fucking Rebellion though. After ROTJ they would have been... regular/irregular New Republic Military and representatives of the new fucking government. That bothered me in the TFA a lot.

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Yeah they obviously wanted to return to the dynamic of the good guys being the outmatched underdogs as a way of making a further distinction from the prequels. I think they set that up reasonably well in the books that came out after TFA with Leia having been discredited by the revelation of her true parentage but that doesn't do anything for the movie itself. I don't really think any broader aspects of galactic politics are the sort of thing any of the movies should try to delve into beyond broad strokes that can be conveyed in an opening crawl or a very brief dialog between characters.

Chukzombi said:

so i was watching that RLM video last night and it started me thinking. howd Kylo Ren get Vader's mask? wasnt his funeral pyre smack dab in the middle of the Ewok city in Endor? does that mean KR murdered all the ewoks too?

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How is Kylo's mask Vader's mask?
Looks way different. He's Vader's fanboi and created his own mask ? what's not to get. He even gets made fun of for it.

Conefed said:

How is Kylo's mask Vader's mask?
Looks way different. He's Vader's fanboi and created his own mask ? what's not to get. He even gets made fun of for it.

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The partially melted mask he gave the "grandfather" speech to in TFA.

Olebass said:

It's amazing how many articles I passed today talking about TLJ dropping to #2 after only 18 days.
Headline skips the over a billion in 18 days part though.

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There was zero doubt this movie was going to make a billion dollars, its just one of those event things. The issue is why aren't people going to see this 3 or 4 times like they did with TFA, why is Jumanji holding up so well against it especially considering most theaters are being forced by Disney to use their biggest screens for TLJ for a minimum of 4 weeks, why did Jumanji actually do BETTER than TLJ for 2 of the past 4 days which is absolutely insane, etc.

We all know the answer to it, the movie pisses off a big chunk of the star wars fan base while not really doing anything special to get people who just go along for the ride to watch it more than once.

Right now TLJ is sitting at I think slightly above $1.0b and is opening in China in 3 days, the last major country. Presales are not that hot, just slightly above Rogue One which did $69m in China. TFA ended its run with a 2.07b worldwide box office, and while I don't think anyone expects TLJ to hit $2b, anything under $1.5b worldwide is gonna be disappointing to Disney because a good new mainline Star Wars movie should have easily hit 1.5b worldwide. I don't think China is gonna save TLJ though, there are two big domestic movies coming out there over the next week and Jumanji is opening at the same time and that has proven to be very strong everywhere.

spronk said:

There was zero doubt this movie was going to make a billion dollars, its just one of those event things. The issue is why aren't people going to see this 3 or 4 times like they did with TFA, why is Jumanji holding up so well against it especially considering most theaters are being forced by Disney to use their biggest screens for TLJ for a minimum of 4 weeks, why did Jumanji actually do BETTER than TLJ for 2 of the past 4 days which is absolutely insane, etc.

We all know the answer to it, the movie pisses off a big chunk of the star wars fan base while not really doing anything special to get people who just go along for the ride to watch it more than once.

Right now TLJ is sitting at I think slightly above $1.0b and is opening in China in 3 days, the last major country. Presales are not that hot, just slightly above Rogue One which did $69m in China. TFA ended its run with a 2.07b worldwide box office, and while I don't think anyone expects TLJ to hit $2b, anything under $1.5b worldwide is gonna be disappointing to Disney because a good new mainline Star Wars movie should have easily hit 1.5b worldwide. I don't think China is gonna save TLJ though, there are two big domestic movies coming out there over the next week and Jumanji is opening at the same time and that has proven to be very strong everywhere.

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I don't argue your statement at all. I honestly haven't seen it since I don't know if I should be upset or not( yet ). I didn't go see TFA either until it came on video.
Still they are making it out as a disaster, while it pulled in over a billion and probably being holidays another billion in toys and Star Wars the flamethrowers.
On paper is was a blazing success. I'm sure Disney is greedy enough though that only making 1.5 billion instead of 2.5 billion might wake them up for the final main movie.
It sure does seem like Hollywood over the past few years overall has been sort of shit though regardless of the studio outside of Marvel specific movies. Not sure why.
Lots of bad movies could have been pretty good with some simple things that should have been obvious.