Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
27,121
71,817
He didn't enjoy killing his former officers

LILY: You son of a bitch.
PICARD: This really isn't the time.
LILY: Okay. I don't know jack about the twenty-fourth century but everybody out there thinks that staying here and fighting the Borg is suicide. They're just afraid to come in here and say it.
PICARD: The crew is accustomed to following my orders.
LILY: They're probably accustomed to your orders making sense.
PICARD: None of them understand the Borg as I do. ...No one does. No one can.
LILY: What is that supposed to mean?
PICARD: Six years ago, they assimilated me into their collective. I had their cybernetic devices implanted throughout my body. I was linked to the hive mind, every trace of individuality erased. I was one of them. So you can imagine, my dear, I have a somewhat unique perspective on the Borg and I know how to fight them. Now if you will excuse me I have work to do.
LILY: I am such an idiot. ...It's so simple. The Borg hurt you, and now you're going to hurt them back.
PICARD: In my century we don't succumb to revenge. We have a more evolved sensibility.
LILY: Bullshit! I saw the look on your face when you shot those Borg on the holodeck. You were almost enjoying it!
PICARD: How dare you!
LILY: Oh, come on, Captain. You're not the first man to get a thrill from murdering someone. I see it all the time.
PICARD: Get out!
LILY: Or what? You'll kill me, like you killed Ensign Lynch
PICARD: There was no way to save him.
LILY: You didn't even try. Where was your evolved sensibility then?
PICARD: I don't have time for this.
LILY: Oh! Hey! I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale.
PICARD: What?
LILY: You do have books in the twenty-fourth century?
PICARD: This is not about revenge.
LILY: Liar!
PICARD: This is about saving the future of humanity.
LILY: Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!
PICARD: No! ...No!
(Picard breaks the starship display cabinet with his phaser rifle)
PICARD: No! ...I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here, ...this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done.
LILY: You broke your little ships. ...See you around, Ahab.
PICARD: 'And he piled upon the whale's white hump, a sum of all the rage and hate felt by his own race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it.'
LILY: What?
PICARD: 'Moby Dick.'
LILY: Actually, I never read it.
PICARD: Ahab spent years hunting the white whale that crippled him. A quest for vengeance, ...but in the end it destroyed him and his ship.
LILY: I guess he didn't know when to quit.

Picard tries to sling some of that "we of the future have an evolved sensibility" nonsense and Lily calls him out cold on it. It may go too far to say he enjoyed gunning down those borg but it definitely excited him to take revenge.
 

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,060
99,460
Wouldn't equate excitement with vengeance. The latter being a word he literally quotes from Moby Dick. He's acting on fury and rage. Excitement means eagerness or enthusiasm in an action. I couldn't say there was enthusiasm as there was no joy in what he was doing, but definitely eagerness. If I'm being specific.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
27,121
71,817
Wouldn't equate excitement with vengeance. The latter being a word he literally quotes from Moby Dick. He's acting on fury and rage. Excitement means eagerness or enthusiasm in an action. I couldn't say there was enthusiasm as there was no joy in what he was doing, but definitely eagerness. If I'm being specific.

He liked it even if only in the moment.
 

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,060
99,460
To me, his expression while pulling the trigger wasn't joy. Or relief. It was focused anger. Distraught even. Contrary to that, he expresses joy when he realizes he's being crazy, apologizes to Worf, "You are the bravest man I have ever known," smiles, then locks in self destruct.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
27,121
71,817
To me, his expression while pulling the trigger wasn't joy. Or relief. It was focused anger. Distraught even. Contrary to that, he expresses joy when he realizes he's being crazy, apologizes to Worf, "You are the bravest man I have ever known," smiles, then locks in self destruct.

I put more weight on Lily's impression of that event given her experiences in a post-World War 3 hellscape and Picard's "the Queen doth protest too much" reaction.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,386
7,388
I'm open to the conversation.

Generations had him show what a louse Kirk was, took Picard's logic to pull him out of heaven. But it set the solid stage for him never leaving the captains chair. Good advice, Kirk.

First Contact he literally reenacted Moby Dick, it was even called out and quoted in the movie. He grew as a person and a character. I mean, he'd been through being assimilated, four lights. For such a stoic person, nothing defines a character better than when they're forced to experience their limitations. He rages, and is brought back down, realizes his mistakes, apologizes, thinks, and acts. He didn't enjoy killing his former officers, he hated the thought of them having to suffer like he did. In his mind he's doing them a favor. He sacrifices a crewman asking for help just moments before. After watching his planet be consumed by them, and the threat of them taking what was left of his humanity he almost lost his own. That he acts out in rage, while not a precedent of his character, shows even he had his limits, but it didn't take much to bring him back down to zero.

Insurrection he got to feel young again, even though he was already old as balls in season 1. To be fair, Patrick Stewart is fairly timeless in comparison to everyone who wasn't a black cast member (Gates being an exception, she's a sexy old lady, even in person, I got to meet her a couple years ago, teaching gymnists and dancers has served her well, anywho...). He had to deal with his rambunctious friend, that being Data. Literally just watched What Are Little Girls Are Made Of, the TOS episode where Spock does something very similarly. Overall, it's a movie about spying, and even the most careful precautions having influence. Some might equate it to native American lifestyle of living at peace with nature, being anti-technology, which is great for avoiding species like the Borg, but dull headed species sealing to abuse resources are always a threat - very complex ideological questions.

Nemesis. Tom Hardy. Patrick Stewart. This movie had glory written all over it, but Trek cheese and directing was too much. Again with the Kirk/Spock imagery in the portrayal of Picard/Data. Picard again nearly sacrifices himself for that of his friend, who he defended as a person in that one blisteringly amazing TNG episode. He's just following through. And for all of that, Data sacrifices himself for him. Unfortunately, even Ron Perlman couldn't save this one. A lot of shit for maybe 20 minutes of Star Trek.

Every other character was a punchline in all of the movies. Troi, we don't have the time to talk about time, Geordi was basically absent in most films save spying on a dude pissing, Troi was a joke, Crusher nearly absent, Worf the one who always defines the tough guy getting mauled by the baddy to show how tough they are. And various red shirts. Hell, Janeway and The Doctor were more memorable.

To say it destroyed Picarss's character I'd say is definitively inaccurate. It developed and furthered it in ways they couldn't in 7 season. Similarly with Data. Unfortunately everyone else was pretty much a bi-line.
Ok, before we jump off fully, have you seen RLM's review of First Contact? It echos a lot of my views on the movie and I want to see where we're starting first.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Denamian

Night Janitor
<Nazi Janitors>
7,184
18,962
Come on guys. Make a Star Trek Movies thread if you want to continue this. I'll move these posts over if you do.
 
  • 1Salty
Reactions: 1 user

Korillo

Molten Core Raider
504
341
Gotta get this thread back on track

TLJ.jpg
 
  • 4Like
  • 2Worf
Reactions: 5 users

spronk

FPS noob
22,597
25,649
transformers the last knight or mother! or snowman or downsizing were all way worse just in the last year
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,060
99,460
Snowman 8%
Transformers 16%
Downsizing 22%
TLJ 46%
mother! 50%

Audience scores per RT. The difference is I didn't spend my money on any of those other movies.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Sterling

El Presidente
12,958
7,855
There are plenty of worse movies. There aren't a whole lot of more disappointing movies though. It's about expectations.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2Solidarity
Reactions: 5 users

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
15,857
7,863
TLJ has put a major dent in one of the biggest movie franchises ever. There are worse movies but non as potentially catastrophic as TLJ
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
71,688
212,905
i wasnt disappointed as i had little expectations to begin with. i was mostly asking myself the same question over and over throughout the film. "what was the point of that then?"
then i asked myself, why should i even bother with ep9?

I saw Phantom Menace at a midnight showing back in 99. it was so awesome to actually be in the the theater to see a NEW Star Wars movie.
then i saw the movie
obiwan-shockjpg.jpeg

after that i was so pissed off i didnt even watch ep2 until 2005 and only then because my friend who loved the prequels offered me a free ticket to go with him to see the sith movie and i needed to catch up.

then i saw Attack of the Clones and my opinion of the prequels went to this
1OYs.gif

when i finally watched Revenge of The Shit and i saw all of these assholes get their shit pushed in by Palpy, i was like this
giphy.gif

so now that the original trilogy is the white stuff in an Oreo shit cookie, why should i even bother with this silly shit anymore?
SuperLeia.gif.5e15887915ece05c8eadcbc4d6357fc6.gif
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Salty
Reactions: 2 users

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,386
7,388
An astrocreep post in a Star Wars thread, this should be good!

Hmmm, none of these words and sentences are making me think of Poe's Law. It's just an overabundance of gifs and poor formatting.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
71,688
212,905
An astrocreep post in a Star Wars thread, this should be good!

Hmmm, none of these words and sentences are making me think of Poe's Law. It's just an overabundance of gifs and poor formatting.
it's almost like i was trying to be funny, i should know this internets is serious business.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,107
30,198
Kidding aside, I am sadly forced to agree that E3 (the only moderately watchable prequel because Pappa Palpatine rocks it) is definitively better than TLJ. I won't be watching E1-2 or TLJ ever again to decide which shitshow is worse. I leave that to the true starwars masochists.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users

Siliconemelons

Avatar of War Slayer
10,795
15,149
E1-3 had issues with "preference"

God R2 is flying...wtf?!
Whats wrong with that?
Its not MY R2!
Well its the R2 for the kids
fine, whatever

TLJ has preference issues and technical issues, and story issues and tone issues and consistency issues and EVERYTHING that makes up film to make it a HORRIBLE film all around
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user