StarCraft 2
- Thread starter Stosh
- Start date
MSC is pretty good at countering 1/1/1. Planetary Nexus basically makes Protoss natural a no-entry zone for a full minute; or basically one or 1.5 WG cycles. So you can delay the 1/1/1 from even doing anything for one full minute. Overcharge even has a range of 13 so tanks can't even shell the Nexus. I'm not sure really how much 1/1/1 will be changed. However it will allow the Terran to invest that money elsewhere. I'm not a 1/1/1'er but I think the most limiting factor was basically producing the initial 3 tanks not really the gas/minerals. Since 1-2 tanks by themselves aren't really scary adding a third seems to be the giant golden number. So maybe it won't really effect the timing as much as I think.
What I'm concerned about is the change in TvT. As of right now (by right now I HOTS from yesterday) TvT is completely broken because of the Reaper. It appears with the changes this won't quite be the case. A pack of Reapers can still hop up and kill a marine (it'll take 6 shots, though) and run away but marines still produce twice as fast so you'll overwhelm with numbers. It isn't a "Reaper or die to Reapers" scenario anymore.HoweverI still don't think 1Rax FE is still viable. If you do the usual Gasless, 2xRax, 2xGas your stim finishes RIGHT when the 1/1/1 arrives at your front door. On most maps you have to poke in with your marines to delay the push so your stim finishes before he can siege your nat. It seems like now if you scout a Terran going gasless FE just tech to tanks, park your first one at his doorstep and just rally to his base. I don't see how a Terran will escape or be able to hold the natural. So that matchup seems kind of fucked up again. Better ... but still fucked.
I'll be interested to see how reactor reaper TvZ works out. The damage they do to queens hasn't changed and I was already running builds where I'd eventually get enough reapers to kill the queens. Some zergs play very greedy and refuse to make a roach warren. I don't think they can do that anymore. Since for all the Zerg knows behind that wall is a Terran building another rax and cranking out 3x Reapers.
-edit-
I'm trying to remember the 111 TvP build and I think it is basically you open standard 2 gas. Fact, tech, port. You start tank production immediately, make a banshee, then start siege when your second tank is about halfway done. Like I said the Terran doesn't really want to move out anyways because 1-2 Tanks are pretty easy to overcome. It is adding that third that makes the push deadly. So I'm not really convinced this is making the 111 as fantastic as the various SC communities are saying it is.
-m0ar edits-
Actually sitting down and doing the theorycrafting I think I could use a variation of my TvT build. Basically gasless FE then immediately 2gas. Right now I do gasless FE then 2 more rax then 2 gas. So I have my 1rax producing rines, I throw down a factory and tech it, then I put down 2 more barracks with reactors and then my port. That way I'd have a tank out in time to defend his tank. The only issue is its pigeon holing me into making tanks in the initial phase of TvT and I really preferred my build of aggressive marine + medivac play transitioning into BioTank. Not sure how I'll be aggressive with that build I just proposed.
What I'm concerned about is the change in TvT. As of right now (by right now I HOTS from yesterday) TvT is completely broken because of the Reaper. It appears with the changes this won't quite be the case. A pack of Reapers can still hop up and kill a marine (it'll take 6 shots, though) and run away but marines still produce twice as fast so you'll overwhelm with numbers. It isn't a "Reaper or die to Reapers" scenario anymore.HoweverI still don't think 1Rax FE is still viable. If you do the usual Gasless, 2xRax, 2xGas your stim finishes RIGHT when the 1/1/1 arrives at your front door. On most maps you have to poke in with your marines to delay the push so your stim finishes before he can siege your nat. It seems like now if you scout a Terran going gasless FE just tech to tanks, park your first one at his doorstep and just rally to his base. I don't see how a Terran will escape or be able to hold the natural. So that matchup seems kind of fucked up again. Better ... but still fucked.
I'll be interested to see how reactor reaper TvZ works out. The damage they do to queens hasn't changed and I was already running builds where I'd eventually get enough reapers to kill the queens. Some zergs play very greedy and refuse to make a roach warren. I don't think they can do that anymore. Since for all the Zerg knows behind that wall is a Terran building another rax and cranking out 3x Reapers.
-edit-
I'm trying to remember the 111 TvP build and I think it is basically you open standard 2 gas. Fact, tech, port. You start tank production immediately, make a banshee, then start siege when your second tank is about halfway done. Like I said the Terran doesn't really want to move out anyways because 1-2 Tanks are pretty easy to overcome. It is adding that third that makes the push deadly. So I'm not really convinced this is making the 111 as fantastic as the various SC communities are saying it is.
-m0ar edits-
Actually sitting down and doing the theorycrafting I think I could use a variation of my TvT build. Basically gasless FE then immediately 2gas. Right now I do gasless FE then 2 more rax then 2 gas. So I have my 1rax producing rines, I throw down a factory and tech it, then I put down 2 more barracks with reactors and then my port. That way I'd have a tank out in time to defend his tank. The only issue is its pigeon holing me into making tanks in the initial phase of TvT and I really preferred my build of aggressive marine + medivac play transitioning into BioTank. Not sure how I'll be aggressive with that build I just proposed.
There's a dozen ways to do 1/1/1. If you are doing tank/banshee then gas is the limiting factor that delays you. However, the siege research does not play a big part because you start it late anyway (shortly before you move out).
What the siege change might do is strengthen 1 base marine tank medivac. These tend to hit very early, which the tanks taking priority over the starport.
What the siege change might do is strengthen 1 base marine tank medivac. These tend to hit very early, which the tanks taking priority over the starport.
I really expected Huk to go 0-5, and Grubby to pick up a win or two. Still not as surprising as Noblesse making it back into code S though.
How much fixing do you think goes on (by the tournament admins)? We had JD and Flash in the same U&D group, 20% chance so not surprising on it's own. But this sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Stephano arrived in Korea, and in EGTL's next two proleague matches there is a streak of WCS maps which looks suspiciously like it was put there for him.
How much fixing do you think goes on (by the tournament admins)? We had JD and Flash in the same U&D group, 20% chance so not surprising on it's own. But this sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Stephano arrived in Korea, and in EGTL's next two proleague matches there is a streak of WCS maps which looks suspiciously like it was put there for him.
Grayson Carlyle
Golden Squire
- 225
- 9
NesTea is a surprising, but happy result for me. A lot of old guard returning to Code S, quite a bit different from the last couple seasons with all the hot newcomers.
Good point. Outside of Byul at the moment you could look at all the Code S players at the moment and it would look like Code S of a year and a half ago.
Sidian
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,279
- 7
The players look like they do from a year ago. Same with the race distribution. Lots of T and Z, little amount of P! What next, NesTea vs Losira in the finals? MVP vs MKP maybe? haha
I'm glad Nestea made it through, i was rooting for him. Didn't think Huk stood a chance at all though so was quite surprised he made it in, but oh well, he's pretty fun to watch at times.
I'm glad Nestea made it through, i was rooting for him. Didn't think Huk stood a chance at all though so was quite surprised he made it in, but oh well, he's pretty fun to watch at times.
3T 3P 4Z by default with the possibility of a max 5T or 6Z. Pretty good distribution, really.
Going with Byun and Symbol in the wild card
Going with Byun and Symbol in the wild card
Lendarios
Trump's Staff
- 19,360
- -17,424
i like the new changes to be honest. No siege mode is a blessing on TvZ. however it is kind of nostalgic remembering that you had to hold your natural for just a couple more seconds to allow siege tech to finish and then shell the zergling from high ground. Flash vz JAedong OSl final, instead of zerglings it was hydras,
Or pretty much every TvP at high level BW where range enhanced Dragoons are like 5 seconds away from overwhelming your bunker then siege finishes
Julian The Apostate
Vyemm Raider
- 2,316
- 2,412
Sidian
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,279
- 7
https://twitter.com/GSL_Chae/status/289298215898083328
https://twitter.com/GSL_Chae/status/289301058436608001
Oh man, GSL changing up quite a bit as well. Excited to see what they bring in.
Wish Blizzard would make a whole new ladder map pool and every tournament toss in non-ladder maps. Streams that I usually watch pretty regularly are becoming almost unwatchable because I'm so sick of seeing Ohana/Antiga/Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom every fucking game for the past year and a half. Luckily in 1 of 10 games on streams there's a new HoTS map. Between that and infestors, this shit is just retarded to watch.
I pretty much watch HOTS exclusively. I'm pretty sick of WoL.
-edit-
Goswser beats MVP 3-0. Yep done with WoL. Not going to live in a world where some random NA scrub beats MVP because he's Zerg.
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Goswser beats MVP 3-0. Yep done with WoL. Not going to live in a world where some random NA scrub beats MVP because he's Zerg.