StarCraft 2

It was during the phase of the game on Bel'Shir where he had too many speedlings out for my 6 hellions + 2 reapers to deal with so I had to retreat them back to my base. Then he just swung down the left hand side (I was south) as I was about halfway up the right hand side. I was also playing cautious since he all-in'd me with Roach/Bane so I lacked map presence.

Roach/bane is really fucking common lately.

Also, why is it everytime I kill a Terran because they're retarded and can't hold off a one-gate expand they fucking rage all over the place? I also love how people yell at me for using a race when I play random, or scream that I'm a cheeser when I open every match-up with an expand. "You only won cause you're random!" What the fuck does that even mean?!

I feel like this game has more cry babies than any other I've ever played. The bads don't realize they're bad and just whine. Meh.

Prob because Terran has to somewhat roll the dice (I'm also assume the Terrans you're playing are terrible) if they want to blindly open super greedy to win in the mid game or open conservative and lose in the late game. But there isn't an excuse to lose to 1g expand. "Is the Toss allowing his Zealot to finish and is he using CB on his gateway? Then build a bunker at your ramp."

Yumi on the ATT sub on reddit gave a pretty good run down of how to scout Toss basically by where their CB is being pumped into. He also claimed if you don't have confirmation of a Nexus building there is zero reason to float your CC down. Which makes since because I can make the CC then float it down once I see the Nexus get planted and still be ahead eco. Late game TvP is still terrible, though.

TvP is definitely a problem at the pro level imo. Somehow Taeja pulls it off, but it seems like 1. Protoss has too many strong openers to prepare for while Terran has basically two builds. 2. MSC allows Protoss to be both greedy and safe at the time. 3. God damn storm seems so fucking powerful in HotS. Did something change I didn't notice?

But yeah, most of these players are fucking awful. Yesterday I played a TvT where he scouted my proxy 11/11 (I hate TvT) and he had the bunker, etc. Immediately he types "out" and the bm continues. I figured he'd roll me in a matter of minutes because I had to have been so far behind economically and tech but I figured fuck it I'll keep playing. Keeps saying "out." 8 minutes later, a double medivac drop, and better upgrades, I roll him. "This is bad." he says a minute before he leaves and puts me on ignore...

Got promoted back into Platinum but it's still pretty easy as this point, and playing random is really fun, mainly because everyone thinks I'm going to cheese and I rarely ever do (sometimes in mirrors, 9 pool, 11/11, 10 gate, etc). I figure I'll hit a wall at Diamond since some of my match-ups are just pitiful (TvP, and basically all mirrors).

Storm didn't change but what did change is now the MSC allows the Protoss to defend the standard medivac timing with just MSC and some gateway. So it allows for Robo to either be bypassed completely or used less. Prior to the MSC if the Protoss didn't have some form of advanced tech out it made dealing with the 2 medivac timing really difficult. Now it is trivial. The only way a Terran can try to do something is to poke prior to the timing, around when Stim finishes, to force out an Overcharge from the MSC. That way the MSC can only Overcharge a single Nexus when the push occurs.

How come we never see much Ghost play anymore in pro play? I know it's not because terran are starving for gas lol. It just seems more beneficial if the protoss is using feedback on ghosts rather than storming, plus blanket EMPs over templars / archons / gateway units is still very strong.

I know ghosts aren't that great if the protoss is going collosus tech, but It seems at least in TvP the standard is protoss just rush storm and do zealot/archon/templar. (at least in high level play)

Tenks_sl said:

Storm didn't change but what did change is now the MSC allows the Protoss to defend the standard medivac timing with just MSC and some gateway. So it allows for Robo to either be bypassed completely or used less. Prior to the MSC if the Protoss didn't have some form of advanced tech out it made dealing with the 2 medivac timing really difficult. Now it is trivial. The only way a Terran can try to do something is to poke prior to the timing, around when Stim finishes, to force out an Overcharge from the MSC. That way the MSC can only Overcharge a single Nexus when the push occurs.

Click to expand...

Makes sense.

As for ghosts not being used, I can't really say why. I don't think I've ever heard a Terran complain one way or the other.

Sidian_sl said:

How come we never see much Ghost play anymore in pro play? I know it's not because terran are starving for gas lol. It just seems more beneficial if the protoss is using feedback on ghosts rather than storming, plus blanket EMPs over templars / archons / gateway units is still very strong.

I know ghosts aren't that great if the protoss is going collosus tech, but It seems at least in TvP the standard is protoss just rush storm and do zealot/archon/templar. (at least in high level play)

Click to expand...

Ghosts are still used but the timing has been pushed back. Modern TvP is all about sinking your gas into medivacs and upgrades THEN ghosts. So unless the game reaches the point where the Terran has achieved 3/3 bio 2/0 vehicle they aren't used. Honestly I think a long way to fix the matchup would be to make it so Ghosts can drain all energy again. It was removed simply because pushing into a Sentry heavy position in WoL was one-sided if you get the sentries but with MSC and less emphasis on FF I feel that is no longer a problem. However I've seen players like Maru and Flash just completely abandon the Ghost and just go with a drop-oriented approach and just kite back from storms.

I also believe that players are just so good anymore that Templar are winning the Feedback duel. Protoss will always have more Templar than Terran will have Ghosts so Terran players have to Snipe x 2 per Templar but Protoss just need to Feedback x 1 per Ghost. I feel the Protoss is at a slight advantage even with Snipe's slightly increased range over Feedback. Also Protoss these days are better about guerrilla tactics with their Templar where there are always templars spread around the map. Making EMP less useful since you are rarely hitting the giant clump like you were in WoL.

-edit-

Watching ByuN now and it is a 19m long TvP against a Templar based army and he straight up just isn't making Ghosts. So maybe they're completely out of fashion now.

30m in and he finally has some Ghosts. I missed exactly when he started production.

What did they change to APM again? Just curious cause I remember averaging about 350, then they changed it, and now if I'm over 150 I'm like amazed lol. Spamming doesn't count as APM right?

How is Zerg supposed to deal with storm? I don't get it... infestors do not counter HT at all. Terran at least have ghosts. Anyone?

You just eat them with your Roaches while making sure to avoid them with your Hydras

Too bad roach/hydra is fucking awful late game.

Roach/Hydra/Viper is a pretty standard composition ZvP. At least as a way to cost efficiently get rid of your Roach/Hydra then transition into a higher tech army from there. Just have to make sure not to suicide your Vipers while trying to abduct Colossus.

Guessing Woojin Stars is done selling off sOs and Soulkey. May need to make Green Wings my ProLeague team with Maru, sOs, CoCa as a good trinity of races. Or I'll just stick with IM.

I still love IM, mainly because of MVP, but man, SKT picking up Soulkey is just insane. Rain, Parting & Soulkey all together. Now that's a scary ass team. I do like Maru and sOs though, they are both huggge pick ups for Wings.

PL format is just a bunch of bo1? Or are they scheduled bo3? Because sOs is a scary fucker to play bo1. Well basically all Protoss are scary bo1 but sOs has the whackiest builds.

Lol Sjow already switched back to Terran. That experiment didn't last long.

Guess Protoss isn't as easy and he originally thought.....

It seemed his main issue was with the dice-roll that is PvP. He stated he felt PvT and PvZ were both Protoss favored. He just wasn't having fun being Protoss and would quickly lose motivation to play if he isn't having fun. But he also acknowledged Protoss takes a certain skill set as well. However I have a hard time taking Sjow seriously since now he wants to be the Terran mech master. It is like he is constantly trying to find a niche or angle to the game instead of trying to just plain play well.

Just started playing again. Used to be masters in mid-wings. Now I got placed in bronze lol.