Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Dr.Retarded said:
Path of least resistance. Think the point he's making is there's newer generations of people that always gravitate toward that direction, and the current world with technology, ease of life, strong vs weak men, etc just reinforce that behavior.

Life can be hard for a lot of people, but unfortunately it's not hard enough on some to teach them the necessary skills to not be a fuck up. Whether you choose to challenge yourself, better yourself that's something a lot of the younger generation isn't apt to do, or at least in the eyes of older people. By no means am I saying that's all of them, but that trend seems to be increasing. How many kids nowadays do you think are able to change a goddamn tire versus just calling AAA, if they even know what the hell that is.

Anyways that's a big conversation and way off topic, I'd rather still state that the game is at least fun to me, and I'm not autistic @Big Phoenix 😉.
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I enjoyed my time with it, too. The game, however, didn't come together well. I would buy the story of a ton of stuff being cut; MS pushing them back a 10 months to polish but sclerosis at the top keeps them from pulling things together well enough to close the gaps they had, ala the elevator rides in the ME1, and the change in setting and marketing leads to different expectations re: Caliente's complaints.

Game play is fun ( I preferred Skyrim Leveling, though) and there are a lot of compelling stories to be told in this setting; all of the faction quests are good and plenty of other side quests are great but MSQ is wholly unsatisfying (to me, and I guess they are going to Timey-Whimey™ any expansions; I don't know how they are going to escape the narrative box they have placed themselves in) and the Creation engine is obviously at end of its life, vis a vis the comparisons to CP 2077 and even they are moving to Unreal 5.x.
 
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Cybsled

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That isn’t too uncommon in Bethesda games - the MSQ is lackluster at times, and the side quests are better.

But Starfield was especially bad in that category. The interesting twist only gets revealed towards the end and ties into a half baked NG+ mechanic that isn’t enjoyable. The Teramorph and Pirate/navy quests were overall much more engaging. The MSQ is just so bland for most of its run. Story wise they could have done so much more. If they reduced the scope and instead let you go to alternate realities that actually were different and the MSQ involved going back and forth between them, that would have been much cooler. Like a reality where the snake cult guys win, or the UC is full on totalitarian state, or a universe where the terramorphs spread uncontrolled and humanity is on the verge of extinction. It would have contrasted well with the mostly peaceful universe the game takes place in and would have let them do more fun things with the characters. Like in NG+ you get brief glimpses of evil Walter or evil Andreja, but they are one off scenes with almost no lasting impact
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Cybsled said:
That isn’t too uncommon in Bethesda games - the MSQ is lackluster at times, and the side quests are better.

But Starfield was especially bad in that category. The interesting twist only gets revealed towards the end and ties into a half baked NG+ mechanic that isn’t enjoyable. The Teramorph and Pirate/navy quests were overall much more engaging. The MSQ is just so bland for most of its run. Story wise they could have done so much more. If they reduced the scope and instead let you go to alternate realities that actually were different and the MSQ involved going back and forth between them, that would have been much cooler. Like a reality where the snake cult guys win, or the UC is full on totalitarian state, or a universe where the terramorphs spread uncontrolled and humanity is on the verge of extinction. It would have contrasted well with the mostly peaceful universe the game takes place in and would have let them do more fun things with the characters. Like in NG+ you get brief glimpses of evil Walter or evil Andreja, but they are one off scenes with almost no lasting impact
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That's actually a pretty cool idea. There's so much you could potentially do. I guess if you're going to do a big multiverse type story, go whole hog, and have some pretty screwed up scenarios. I haven't read about all the different New game Plus versions that you can potentially encounter but I know of a couple of them just based on you guys talking about it, but it seems like they were trying to do something like that, but missed the mark. Probably because it would have just taken a hell of a lot more development time.

Wonder if with AI assistance for voice acting a modder could layout and script everything for like you said the world were the terror morphs have ravaged the Galaxy. Have some of the main characters fully voice acted even if it sounds a little bit off. How about if you were capable of doing something like that and be creative enough you'd probably get a decent gig working for a developer, unless you're a white male.
 
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mkopec

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The fucking millennial generation. Those that got brought up with participation trophies and never having to lose. And even if they did lose they still won.
 
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RobXIII

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I liked a lot of things about this one, and you would even get interesting side stories exploring random planets and talking to frontier NPCs.

But man, the NG+ loop....who approved that for release? Did something get cut from the temples that you get your power from? Feels like a placeholder, and you get to go back and do it 300 times or whatever to max it out?!
 
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Cybsled

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The whole temple mechanic is fucking dumb. You roleplay as a moth and fly towards the light, then repeat dozens of times. The temples all have the same layout - there is no puzzles or challenges.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Cybsled said:
The whole temple mechanic is fucking dumb. You roleplay as a moth and fly towards the light, then repeat dozens of times. The temples all have the same layout - there is no puzzles or challenges.
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Yeah, I remember the first one I went to and thought, cool it'll be a weird alien tomb or something to explore. I wonder what weird shit there might be. Really thought it was going to be some ancient city ruins, maybe find some alien bodies explaining everything.

Nope, nothing . It definitely is the weakest element of the game to me.
 
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rhinohelix

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Dr.Retarded said:
Yeah, I remember the first one I went to and thought, cool it'll be a weird alien tomb or something to explore. I wonder what weird shit there might be. Really thought it was going to be some ancient city ruins, maybe find some alien bodies explaining everything.

Nope, nothing . It definitely is the weakest element of the game to me.
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Its a checkbox from 2015; the whole MSQ is a holdover back when Multiverses were cool and this "ring the bell" quest to get powers checked the box and providing no challenge was considered OK.

The whole MSQ just felt like the NG+ and the big M. Night reveal were expected to cover up for the huge amount of Lazy, and they expected the audience to grade on the curve. "It's Skyrim but in Space!" we would all cry as we creamed our space pants and threw pickles and dollars at Todd. In 2015, maybe yes. In 2023, post Witcher 3, no one is quite as impressed.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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rhinohelix said:
Its a checkbox from 2015; the whole MSQ is a holdover back when Multiverses were cool and this "ring the bell" quest to get powers checked the box and providing no challenge was considered OK.

The whole MSQ just felt like the NG+ and the big M. Night reveal were expected to cover up for the huge amount of Lazy, and they expected the audience to grade on the curve. "It's Skyrim but in Space!" we would all cry as we creamed our space pants and threw pickles and dollars at Todd. In 2015, maybe yes. In 2023, post Witcher 3, no one is quite as impressed.
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Wait... Why would we throw pickles at him, unless it's because they're salty and briney and the pickle juice would burn his eyes? Then it's probably not fun to get hit in the face with a goddamn big pickle, you probably have to ask Foler Foler about that for confirmation.
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Dr.Retarded said:
Wait... Why would we throw pickles at him, unless it's because they're salty and briney and the pickle juice would burn his eyes? Then it's probably not fun to get hit in the face with a goddamn big pickle, you probably have to ask Foler Foler about that for confirmation.
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Why would I ask Folgers about anything? I could just ask Grok or ChatGPT if I want a fantasy answer.

pickles reference is from Real Genius:

 
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Dr.Retarded

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rhinohelix said:
Why would I ask Folgers about anything? I could just ask Grok or ChatGPT if I want a fantasy answer.

pickles reference is from Real Genius:

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Fuck me runnin, I completely forgot about that movie. My hat goes off to you sir for putting forth such a odd and wonderful reference.
 
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jayrebb

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Mods will save it.

1702972876401.png


 
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Dr.Retarded

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Look like there's still guys out there making shit. That video just popped up for me and they were handful of those in there that look pretty cool, especially the one for building ships and then being able to encounter variations of that ship out in space. The weapon mod recycler is pretty neat too.

 
Bondurant

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Starfield is good with about 15 mods that somewhat fix a fraction of the problems the game has. It's not okay and will never be.
 
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Fucker

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sleevedraw said:
Every generation has its moochers and go-getters. Even back in Sumerian times, you have cuneiform lamenting the laziness of the youth.

I think as every generation gets older, it has a tendency to see people younger than them as lazy and entitled. It's not always the case, though - my best friend is a Zoomer in his early 20s who's lived in a "dry cabin" (i.e. no plumbing) in Alaska. His spouse was homeless in high school and is currently trying to get either an environmental or petroleum engineering degree part-time (has the grades, just doesn't have much money, and he's a FUCKING WHITE MALE, so he's dead last for financial aid.) Both of them are always trying to self-improve.

If something has changed recently, I think it's more just that mass culture no longer favors a "culture of excellence," it favors gaming the system, and we may be reaching a critical value where the ratio of go-getters to moochers has become unsustainable.
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Well, there are hard working young people. They come from homes where expectations are made of them and they have to meet them. The problem is with John or Susie Q Public. No expectations at home or at school, so they never develop a work ethic but for sure possess a strong sense of entitlement because they are used to having everything handed to them without working for it.

Mass culture no longer favors hard work and getting ahead, but rather greasing by with minimal effort.

We are already seeing the beginning of that critical value where John and Susie Q Public no longer have the tools necessary to participate in the American Dream. No upward mobility, no housing, and will spend their entire lives owning nothing but debt. 10 year car loans that get rolled over into a new 10 year car loan every 5 years. 50 year mortgages wherein no equity is built and nothing is left for the following generation.

In terms of gaming, what this means is you have 15 people doing the work of one person. That's why there are long development cycles and games that cost a crazy amount of money. It's also why nearly every game is the same as every other game out there. Lazy, uncreative people looking over someone else's shoulder to copy their test answers. Oh look! Open world survival pvp roguelike game #34717415278461!!
 
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TJT

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sleevedraw said:
Every generation has its moochers and go-getters. Even back in Sumerian times, you have cuneiform lamenting the laziness of the youth.

I think as every generation gets older, it has a tendency to see people younger than them as lazy and entitled. It's not always the case, though - my best friend is a Zoomer in his early 20s who's lived in a "dry cabin" (i.e. no plumbing) in Alaska. His spouse was homeless in high school and is currently trying to get either an environmental or petroleum engineering degree part-time (has the grades, just doesn't have much money, and he's a FUCKING WHITE MALE, so he's dead last for financial aid.) Both of them are always trying to self-improve.

If something has changed recently, I think it's more just that mass culture no longer favors a "culture of excellence," it favors gaming the system, and we may be reaching a critical value where the ratio of go-getters to moochers has become unsustainable.
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On the flip side, those of us that maintain competence and excellence will have some smooth sailing.
 
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Daidraco

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TJT said:
On the flip side, those of us that maintain competence and excellence will have some smooth sailing.
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Thats pretty much my take. I feel like if you make some real sacrifices in your life to get ahead, the option is still very much there to get ahead. How many people want to cut out going out all the time? How many people want to stop eating out entirely? How many people want a second job? How many would even think about, much less dare, start their own business?

Who gives a shit if people in the 80's supposedly could get by easier - that has nothing to do with NOW. Work your ass off for 10 years, ignore everything else, and get out of the fucking bottom level of the rat race.

The only thing I dont like to agree with is the idea of generational wealth. Its smart on paper. Its brilliant. It sets up your kid(s) to do better in life than others. But every single middle class kid Ive seen thats handed a car at 16, handed a house at 18 etc. has been a waste of fucking space. I'll spend my money how I please, and if I just so happen to die and still own all the same shit I do - then congratu-fucking-lations on your inheritance. But best believe Im in it for myself and Im going to do fuck all when I make the conscious decision to retire. "Grandpa, can you get out of VR so we can have Christmas at your place?" "Fuck you Jimmy. Im playing with Megan Fox's titties!"
 
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mkopec

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Biggest thing that happened in the late 80s and 90s till now is the push for everyone to go to college. Before this only the smartest people attended college because of entrance exams and GPA requirements. So what happened? Well 2 things, colleges and universities added a whole bunch of BS EZ mode degrees that dont apply to any real world jobs and eased up on the entrance stuff. So now they can extract moneys from everyone. And of course every parent wants their little Timmy and Joan to attend college because they think that when done they will be scoring those high paid jobs. Well this shit does not float if Timmy takes Photography and Joan takes Theatre Arts.

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