Is this including all the shit the MoP xpac took from Rift? Calling rift a clone of WoW is like calling WoW a clone of EQ2. (Rift has more in common with EQ2 than it does WoW) I'm not defending rift it has its own set of issues. You're just wrong bixxby.bixxby_sl said:
SWTOR
- Thread starter Shonuff
- Start date
If I were describing a $200,000,000 Star Wars MMO that went free-to-play within a year due to subscription collapse, 'successful' wouldn'texactlybe the word I'd use.
Off the top of my head, only thing I can even think that WoW might have taken from from Rift, are the Chronicles for idea of Scenarios.
I concur, outside of the fact I'm still waiting for Half Life Episode 3....
I don't quite get the Rift hate. I don't care for it, but it's a solid MMO with a lot going for it. If the world and classes weren't so bland, I'd probably play more Rift and to me it's a better MMO than WOW.
Anyways, back to SWTOR.I wonder what their plan B will be after the Rise of the Hutt mini expansion craters.
When I was leveling up in culinary school, one of the gems of wisdom my chefs used to always stress was the following:
If you pay .50 for a slice of pizza, and the pizza is shitty, you've still overpaid.
Now, the numbers game is very real, and a major reason why I played both TSW and SWTOR but ended my subscription after so many months. Looking at the content in both games, knowing what I pay for every month etc...it is not worth the subscription price. I don't give a fuck if it's less than the price of a movie.
Coming in here and saying people are financially strapped because they recognize the value (or lack thereof) of a game is a terrible argument. If you buy that shitty .50 pizza, find it sucks, do you go back for another helping next month?
No, you don't, but if someone at a party brings an entire pizza for free, hey, you might grab a slice.
I can drop retarded amounts of money on things that I love but without even breaking it down like Tanas has, anyone intelligent enough can tell you that if they aren't enjoying it, (and not many do because it's fucking worthless) it's entirely not worth the money. Even if you're grabbing a few hours of entertainment here and there.
Moontayle has been the only person who has really liked major parts of the game, and that's fine. If you get enjoyment out of it, you decide where your money goes. But moon has also been adamant that the game has many issues, and if you're not as willing (or unable) to overlook those issues then you'll want to spend money elsewhere.
TSW has one thing over SWTOR, and that's that it's FTP model is the exact same experience you got as a paid subscriber.
But in swtor, what many people are getting for free is KOTOR 3, with a bunch of stupid shitty crap in the middle, and the inability to play without restrictions. If you think people bowing out from paying for that game for what it is is because they are "financially strapped", than I am sure Perfect World entertainment is right up your alley.
If you pay .50 for a slice of pizza, and the pizza is shitty, you've still overpaid.
Now, the numbers game is very real, and a major reason why I played both TSW and SWTOR but ended my subscription after so many months. Looking at the content in both games, knowing what I pay for every month etc...it is not worth the subscription price. I don't give a fuck if it's less than the price of a movie.
Coming in here and saying people are financially strapped because they recognize the value (or lack thereof) of a game is a terrible argument. If you buy that shitty .50 pizza, find it sucks, do you go back for another helping next month?
No, you don't, but if someone at a party brings an entire pizza for free, hey, you might grab a slice.
I can drop retarded amounts of money on things that I love but without even breaking it down like Tanas has, anyone intelligent enough can tell you that if they aren't enjoying it, (and not many do because it's fucking worthless) it's entirely not worth the money. Even if you're grabbing a few hours of entertainment here and there.
Moontayle has been the only person who has really liked major parts of the game, and that's fine. If you get enjoyment out of it, you decide where your money goes. But moon has also been adamant that the game has many issues, and if you're not as willing (or unable) to overlook those issues then you'll want to spend money elsewhere.
TSW has one thing over SWTOR, and that's that it's FTP model is the exact same experience you got as a paid subscriber.
But in swtor, what many people are getting for free is KOTOR 3, with a bunch of stupid shitty crap in the middle, and the inability to play without restrictions. If you think people bowing out from paying for that game for what it is is because they are "financially strapped", than I am sure Perfect World entertainment is right up your alley.
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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More than 800 people on four continents have spent six years and nearly $200 million creating it.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/...tic-gamble/#/0
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BioWare has not disclosed development costs
After launch, the game's subscribers rose to 1.7 million by February 2012.[38] By May 2012, those numbers fell to 1.3 million.[39] By July 2012, the subscriber base fell below 1 million, prompting EA to convert the game to free to play. EA stated that 500,000 subscribers were needed to make the game profitable saying that they were "well above" that number.[40]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wa...e_Old_Republic
So they sold almost 2 million boxes and had 1 million subscribers at the 6 month mark. Do the math.
So yeah, maybe they are not raking in the 3 billion a year that wow is bringing in at its peak, but im sure they are still profitable.
No shit EA aren't going to go around bragging about how Bioware conned them into pissing nearly quarter of a billion fucking dollars away on SWTOR. Are you stupid or something?
Or what?
Or what?
Roughly 220 to 300 million GROSS minus LA fee minus bandwidth minus all the other shit it takes to keep employee's medical insurance bonus, things like salary and the power keep lights on, customer service, minus continued adverts you know that shit and the carnage that this spectacular failure left in its wake. Case in point out of guild of 75 people that I played this game with I am talking hardcore Star Wars nuts like the mofo's that buy the Stromtrooper helmets and $2,000 Vader outfits exactly Zero are still currently playing. Exactly Zero were playing after 3 months from launch. Zero Happens to be the number that SWTOR was mentioned in there last quarter(Q3) financial press release but BF3 sold 2.9 million prem. subs.
footnote: I take LA times over a wiki article any day, Someone puts there name and rep online with the LA times no so with wiki
spronk
FPS noob
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Umm, maybe you should "do the math". 2 million boxed copies is around $100m to the publisher assuming EA got 100% of every penny spent, which is unlikely (stores, distributors). We don't know how much went to Lucasarts. 1 million subs at 6 months is $90m net, Blizzard grosses around 40% on wow subs so even in that optimal case (not really possible for a new MMO) thats another 36m. Even breaking the subs out to 1.5m for six months and and another million for 3 months only increases that to 72m, for a total return of around $170m, again before any fees have to be paid to Lucasarts. In general Star Wars, Harry Potter, and other tier-1 licensing fees run around 33% net or 20% gross, so thats somewhere between 30-50m EA has to pay Lucasarts.
I'll say it real slow so you understand, $170m is LESS than $200m. So even under the wildest best case scenarios, and assuming Bioware has spent $0 on SWTOR since it launched (which cant be true either) its still lost over $30m. With more realistic numbers (30% margins on box copies, 1.7m boxes, much fewer subs due to the "free month" shit they pushed in May, Lucas fees) SWTOR has lost over $150m so far and is still unprofitable due to high overhead and very little incoming revenue, from a monthly cash flow perspective.
So yeah, when everyone says the game is a giant money pit thats what it is, its nowhere close to profitable by any whacky accounting system you can use, except I guess maybe its profitable to the HERO engine people or maybe its profitable to the guys who tattooed all the swtor devs.
i'm surprised only 2 million people bought the game. i thought the IP would have attracted a lot more. did they even market this overseas?
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