SWTOR

Pizoi

Golden Squire
317
22
Curious as to how much crit rating you took when min/maxing your Assassin pvp set. I just finished getting 4 Survivor armorings to toss into my Stalker gear since the set bonuses are far more appealing, and I'm about to start buying up gloves and boots for the mods and enhancements; just need to get the new belt and bracers first. I think I'm sitting at almost exactly 300 crit rating right now which feels like a decent amount. I know some people say not to raise it above 250, but some people are also retarded and believe everything they read on Noxxic.

I like the new WZ too, Huttball is still my favorite though. Fuck Novare Coast, and to a slightly lesser extent Void Star, wish they'd just remove them from the rotation.
 

uup2it_sl

shitlord
25
0
I have a newbie question. Buddy and I are going to start playing with this now that its FTP and wondered on the republic side what would be a good combo of tank/healer. Or does it really not matter game is balanced enough that any combo works well. I did play a priest in WoW and liked that healing style of big heals with few Hot. Liked the ablity to move and not have to be spamming keys all the time to keep heals going.

Thank you
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
I have a newbie question. Buddy and I are going to start playing with this now that its FTP and wondered on the republic side what would be a good combo of tank/healer. Or does it really not matter game is balanced enough that any combo works well. I did play a priest in WoW and liked that healing style of big heals with few Hot. Liked the ablity to move and not have to be spamming keys all the time to keep heals going.

Thank you
Sounds like Jedi Guardian and Sage are pretty strong ATM.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
I have a newbie question. Buddy and I are going to start playing with this now that its FTP and wondered on the republic side what would be a good combo of tank/healer. Or does it really not matter game is balanced enough that any combo works well. I did play a priest in WoW and liked that healing style of big heals with few Hot. Liked the ablity to move and not have to be spamming keys all the time to keep heals going.

Thank you
If it's your first time through, I can't recommend enough going Empire. The stories are more interesting and fun. The Jedi Sage storyline is just awful. I'd go Smuggler storyline just because it at least is bearable, to me.

Remember also with companions you don't really need to go tank/healer.
 

Yukiri_sl

shitlord
435
0
If youre going republic, would recommend Jedi Shadow for your tank and a Scoundrel for heals, mostly because they can both stealth :p

Edit - Imperial alternatives are Sith Assassin and Operative. Operatives/scoundrels are really strong, they can crowd control most anything since they can lock down both droids and humanoids/creatures, stealth and heals plus they start with a reasonably strong tank companion. Assassins/Shadows are the rogues of the game. Backstabby, stealth but also can spec into strong tanks.
 

Pizoi

Golden Squire
317
22
Guardian and Sage would be a more resilient combo (and both could be considered overpowered at certain things in the games current state), but Shadow and Scoundrel would allow you to skip a ton of trash when 2 manning flashpoints and planet instances. All 4 classes are very strong, so it really comes down to playstyle preference.
 

moontayle

Golden Squire
4,302
165
Curious as to how much crit rating you took when min/maxing your Assassin pvp set. I just finished getting 4 Survivor armorings to toss into my Stalker gear since the set bonuses are far more appealing, and I'm about to start buying up gloves and boots for the mods and enhancements; just need to get the new belt and bracers first. I think I'm sitting at almost exactly 300 crit rating right now which feels like a decent amount. I know some people say not to raise it above 250, but some people are also retarded and believe everything they read on Noxxic.

I like the new WZ too, Huttball is still my favorite though. Fuck Novare Coast, and to a slightly lesser extent Void Star, wish they'd just remove them from the rotation.
I have 2 sets actually.

One is for the 23/1/17 build. Since a large part of the playstyle revolves around fishing for Energize procs, which auto-crits Shock, I don't run with any Crit, so my base is like 25% buffed (or so). Heavy on Power and my base attack is like 1050-1250.

My current favorite build is 0/27/14, heavy on burst damage and difficult to guard against since you don't know when its coming (unlike full deception since with 2 voltaic slashes you know the next attack is Shock and can pop resistance cooldowns to guard against). I've taken Defense guardians down to 40% of their health coming out of stealth in this build. I run 35% buffed crit here.
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12...-by-going-f2p/

http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/18...s_the_old_.php


The Burning of Star Wars: The Old Republic
by Simon Ludgate [Business/Marketing, Social/Online]

December 14, 2012



Page 1 of 3

In its quest to quickly push out a free-to-play model for its flagship MMO, has BioWare burned all players -- both subscribers and the new free crowd? MMO consultant Simon Ludgate takes a look at what the developer has really wrought with its adaptation of the game.

When BioWare created Star Wars: The Old Republic, the developer intended for it to be a huge blockbuster MMORPG, with millions of subscribers dutifully paying their fees for years and years. However, BioWare spent most of its money on single player story content, wrapped up in all the worst time-sink tropes that pervade the MMORPG genre. Design elements that players suffer through in order to get to the parts of the game they really enjoy: the coveted "end-game."

SWTOR's "end-game" was anemic at best, especially compared to the well-received storyline content. Surprise, surprise; most of the people who paid for the game didn't continue subscribing after playing through the story once or twice. Between the annoying grind and the recycled content -- another one of those annoying MMORPG tropes -- the game's single player content ended up being even less fun than a normal single player game, never mind the subscription fee to keep replaying it.

Faced with hefty costs to recoup, and dwindling subscription numbers, BioWare did what everyone else does with a failing MMORPG: alter the game to be free-to-play (F2P), which lets players download and log in to the game without buying it or paying a subscription. These games usually impose some restrictions on free players and try to sell them items in-game or convince them to upgrade to a subscription.

This article analyzes the effectiveness of the current SWTOR F2P model and contrasts it with general principles of F2P design and the specific issues with SWTOR that led to its downfall as a subscription-based game.

To begin with, I logged in to my old account and checked the in-game market to find out for myself what it would cost to have a subscription-like game experience without a subscription.

Fifty-Six Dollars per Month

That's what it costs to play Star Wars: The Old Republic as a free player.

And that's assuming you're going to plunk down $180 to unlock everything (including hotbars to put your abilities on so you can actually use those abilities) on only two characters. You can't actually get more than two characters (as far as I can tell), and there's plenty else you can't unlock, like getting quest rewards from completing quests or carrying more than a handful of credits.

This is what they're expecting free players to pay. And those players are "free players" because $60 for a boxed game and $15 for a subscription was ridiculously overpriced and not something they were willing to pay for. That's why they're in SWOTR now that it's F2P, as a free player, spending Cartel Coins like they're Zimbabwe's 100 trillion dollar bills.



The unlocks totaling $180 are a bit of back-of-the-envelope calculations, which weren't made any easier by the buggy in-game Cartel store, which refused to show me the price for most account unlocks vs. individual unlocks. But since you only get two characters anyway, we'll just take the individuals and double the values; close enough.

The real shiv-to-the-gut is the ongoing weekly cost to play SWTOR. SWTOR has five main content avenues: the single player story, the single player space missions, the group Flashpoints (four-player dungeons), the Warzones (PvP battlegrounds), and Ops (20-person raids).

You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions.

F2P! What Is It Good For? Absolutely Nuthin'! Huh!

Now, F2P games aren't really meant to be totally free. Duh. They're there to make a profit, like any other monetization scheme. But there's a right way and a wrong way to design an F2P/subscription hybrid game: You are either building a separate and meaningful way to play the game with the hope of turning a large profit from a small subset of paying players to offset the large number of non-paying players, or you are building an extended demo with the hope of turning F2P players into subscribers.

BioWare plainly went the wrong way with SWTOR. You don't have to go any further than the comments about how special and important subscribers are and how BioWare wants subscribers to feel special, even in the F2P environment. F2P is clearly just a demo; it's just that BioWare is changing the limit from "level cap 15" (the old trial, which also doesn't work) and instead applying every form of hindrance and impairment it can come up with, putting the Handicapper Generals to shame.

One has to question whether this makes any sense at all. The game was failing because people didn't want to pay for subscriptions. The choice was paying subscriptions or not playing at all, and people were choosing "not at all" over subs. How, then, does replacing "not at all" with "kneecapped" change things? How does that help net new subscribers, and how does that help keep existing subscribers?

Subscribing Makes You Special! And Sparkly!

Back when F2P was first announced, I created a trial SWTOR account to talk to some existing subscribers.

They all said roughly the same thing: They were looking forward to F2P because they hoped it would mean a lot more players for them to play with.


The existing queue times for Flashpoints (group dungeons) and Warzones (PvP battlegrounds) were tediously long, and it was exceptionally difficult to find people to do world boss raids or create new Ops (raid dungeons) groups. More people would mean all this multiplayer stuff would become better.

Unfortunately, that's exactly where BioWare aimed its shotgun when blasting holes in SWTOR's available content.

Locking players down to a handful of Flashpoints and Warzones a week and out of Ops entirely was a big part of the plan (and the source of that $56-a-month fee). Which means the F2P solution they came up with does nothing to help address the concerns subscribers had when they were cancelling their subscriptions in droves.

So, on the one hand, BioWare is trying to create an F2P experience so horrifically bad that it brutally coerces players into subscribing, but on the other hand they actively sabotage the very thing subscribers wanted in order to remain subscribers. Two hands here, folks.



I can understand the desire to get subscriber numbers up. I'm sure the discussion at BioWare went something like:

"OK, we need more subs. How do we get them?"

"What about F2P?"

"Yeah, that's a great idea! We'll use F2P as a way to get new players, and then convert them into subscribers!"

The problem was twofold: meeting the requirements of subscribers (having people to play with) and also meeting subscriber expectations (that it's "worth" subscribing and not going free). The "worth" part of the equation went spinning out of control though. BioWare was SO worried that subscribers would feel they weren't getting their money's worth they basically made sure free players would have a worse experience than players who never touched SWTOR at all. Ultimately, the addressing the second problem killed any chance of solving the first.

What Do We Burn, Apart from Subscribers? MOAR SUBSCRIBERS!

BioWare's goal, thus, was to continue to sacrifice existing subscribers in the hope of getting new subscribers. The utter disdain for past customers is exemplified in all the "return to SWOTR" nonsense. "Get all these bonus Cartel Coins for all the months you paid for!" is the claim. Sounds like a way to bring them back, no?

No. What BioWare left out was the fine print: "You only get them if you subscribe again."

So maybe BioWare did want to get old subscribers back subscribing, but decided to do it in the sneakiest way possible. I'm surprised BioWare hasn't just emailed every past subscriber with the following ultimatum: Subscribe again or we'll delete your account. That would probably get SWTOR at least a few more subscribers, and BioWare's reputation couldn't exactly get any worse at this point.

BioWare's plan forward is clear: it has written off old subscribers, decided the game is a rapid churner, and is mainly looking for fresh blood to run through the churn. Which, aside from being an unsustainable practice and something that most assuredly drives your brand into the dirt, is also very ill-served by the crazy F2P implementation BioWare actually put in place.

Well, at Least the Story's Free?

The one major free thing in all of SWTOR's F2P is the single player storyline. If you're happy doing nothing but the storyline in a fairly single-player-esque and slow, limited, grindy fashion, and you don't mind not getting any quest rewards (you have to subscribe for those), you really don't need to spend a cent on SWTOR. And that single player story is probably SWTOR's most redeeming feature.

So here's the conundrum. Droves of people are going to download SWTOR for free, connect to the servers for free, play through the story for free, and quit (for free). BioWare doesn't just get nothing from these F2P players, but in fact pays for all that bandwidth so the F2P player can do it on the servers. It'd actually make more sense for BioWare to release an offline, stand-alone version of SWTOR on The Pirate Bay then to build its online F2P MMORPG around that model.

The thing that keeps players in MMORPGs is interacting with other players, and BioWare has made sure that free players barely get a taste of that interaction. In fact, just the other way around: Due to restrictions on F2P players, not only do they not get to interact with subscribers much, but subscribers won't want to interact with F2P players. Who wants handicapped players -- unable to revive in an instance or use all of their abilities due to UI restrictions -- clogging up their party slots?

Not to mention that F2P players can't even equip artifact gear (the good stuff you actually need to equip to be competitive in any aspect of the fabled end-game; you know, that thing subscribers play). The ironic thing is that subscribers might actually get more frustrated the more they play with F2P players, to the point they'll cancel their subscriptions in frustration because they're getting auto-matched with people who can't possibly help them!



Non-Paying Players Help Keep Paying Players Playing (And Paying!)

I've been saying it for years now, but there is a mantra BioWare should have been following with SWTOR's F2P implementation. The goal isn't to shoo away or coerce free players into paying, the goal is to get paying players to pay more (either by keeping them subscribed longer, or by giving them more options to pay beyond the subscription).

BioWare's SWTOR F2P plan should have been built up something like this:


1.We want to make money. The people who are most likely to give us money are the people who have paid us lots already in subscriptions and collectors editions.
2.We need to make the game as attractive as possible to subscribers and meet their needs so that they stay subscribed, as well as offering them more opportunities to spend money.
3.In order to support subscribers we need free players accompanying them in multiplayer groups, so we need to give free players everything they need to be desirable group members in all multiplayer activities.
4.We can restrict access to features that don't impact grouping for free players.

Conclusion? Lock out parts of the story and give free players unlimited access to multiplayer content. In other words, the exact opposite of what BioWare actually did.

What would I have put behind the subscription barrier? Well, the legacy system seems like a fine example of something you could make a subscription-exclusive system. The whole thing is a set of high-level perks that was introduced after launch, designed to give a few fun but non-critical bonuses to players who play two or three or fifteen bajillion characters through to Level 50. In other words: a perk system for addicts who put in tons of play time and are probably subscribers anyhow.

I think subscriptions should be about getting additional perks rather than bypassing restrictions. The monthly Cartel Coin stipend to subscribers, along with general unlocks of the storyline and legacy, would be the bulk of what being a subscriber would mean. Perks like priority queues to log into your server of choice are a given, and perhaps priority queues in-game with Flashpoints and Warzones. And a bunch of small math boosts to XP and credit fees for services like fast-travel and auction house.

My primary focus for monetization would be on additional stuff to sell, rather than unlocking basic functionality. Costumes and mounts, like BioWare already implemented, are an obvious choice, though so far those have been done in very small numbers and with a very unpopular reliance on "gamble boxes" -- you buy a box, which might have a mount, but probably has a piece of shit in it instead. Literally. Like, an object you right-click on and it smears it on your character's face, just to remind you how bad an idea it was to buy a gamble box.

Instead, I'd go the extra light-year and sell alternate space ships. Currently every class only ever gets one ship, but I'd plunk down alternatives and charge a good $50 to $100 in the store for them. Seriously. It's the ultimate cosmetic upgrade and a perfect example of the kind of thing you can sell for very big bucks.

Of course, if you did that, you'd also have to let players ride on each other's ships. How else would you show off your new digs to your buddies? Then take another step to add a ship decoration system, where you can get furniture and what not and decorate your ship, much like house decoration in all those other MMORPGs. Have looted decorations, have crafted decorations, and -- of course -- fill the cash shop with premium decorations.

At this point, you can go ahead and up the ante with capital ships and possibly large space stations for guilds. All behind the paywall, of course, though consider making the guild bases a communal thing: Have two dozen players each chip in $20 for the guild's star base. Sounds good and profitable to me.



All In a Day's Work

To be sure, SWTOR's F2P implementation was an extremely rushed job. BioWare basically went from "let's do this" to "here it is" in a matter of weeks. There's no way the developers could code and implement complex systems like ship decoration or star bases in that time frame.

But the thing is: BioWare could have planned for the long term. The team could have said: "Okay. We don't have much to monetize now, so instead of trying to charge for every little thing we can cut out of the game, we're going to focus on attracting both new and old players with a very favorable F2P implementation and, once we've built up the player base again and have lots and lots of happy players, we'll roll out these systems that will drive up our F2P profits."

Instead, BioWare seems to have tried to find a way to get the most money in the immediate present. I don't know how well it will work. I certainly don't expect it to work well in the long term. There's an expression out there: don't burn your bridges. I guess BioWare wants to invent a new one: If you're going to burn your bridges down, you may as well sell tickets to the show.

I'm not writing SWTOR off entirely -- not just yet. To be sure, BioWare could still hire someone who knows what they're doing and give them enough power to make the decisions that need to be made (P.S.: I'm available). But that window of opportunity is closing fast and there may not be enough leadership left at BioWare to act in time.

For the rest of us, I guess all we can do is enjoy the show. Pass the marshmallows?

Page 3 of 3
 

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,359
11,884
I read about half the article and could tell it was mostly on the money.

Bioware missed the boat big time. First, they needed a more frugal producer. Most of the planet content should have been text quests. Economy of voice would have kept costs reasonable and allowed Bioware to actually have money to do real endgame content. (They needed better designers too. Wrath and not TBC should have been the goal.)

Voiced cutscenes should have been major planet sequences and class story only. There. They still win the "story as a new pillar" war. Next, they steal from at least rift and ideally gw2 with dynamic and spawning skirmishes to make this shit feel like a war. Controllable vehicles in the environment. Institute downleveling and keep instancing to class/major planet points with a minimal of phasing.

Now, launch B2P and NEVER charge a monthly sub. Instead lop off things like gw2 did and keep a box price. Charge for content packs every 4-5 months for warzones, ops, instances. Ideally this means at release from the economy of voice and newly available resources that ev, kp, and ec are at launch.

Keep roles and flatten gear curve. Provide more rewards from participating in world event pvp via the dynamic events or at worst equal to warzones. Cut down abilities per AC to about what wow has but make them more fun to push. Gate some pve around wintergrasp-esque world pvp events in zones.

Also fire the guy that suggested having the little intermittent space stations. Keep people in the game as much as possible and less on loading screens.

Oh and maybe cut down planets but make them larger with better travel and packed full or utter war. Then sell new planets.

My $0.02.
 

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,359
11,884
Oh and whoever thought rakghouls would be a great story for a major patch? Beat him with a keyboard. I was fine with the instances, but that should've been in at launch and been a seriously less "look how cool this is" thing. They aren't cool. I hated rakghouls in kotor and tor.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,648
1,375
To me, what happened with SWTOR is the result that some thought would happen with WOW before it launched. What a waste of money and a license.
 

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,359
11,884
http://www.swtor.com/rothc?intcmp=so...kt-t-us-hp-013

5 level xpac. As light as some of their patches have been compared to WoW (their admitted gold standard), I don't really want to give them $10 or $20 because some irresponsible manager at Bioware didn't stop to think how the fuck they were going to pay for fully voiced content.

So far the torhead leak has been spot on with a little shuffling, but it does appear as if class storylines are done at least until a proper xpac which may never come.
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12...r-spring-2013/

Hickman contiues to work his magic or shit depending on your fanboyzem.

More Nickel and Dimeing check.
Hell the Price is cheap, but you know it probally have hardly any content this basically be the new DLC price for Tortanic while they call them expansions in the future.

How does Hickman and Vogel and every stupid fuck that works on shit that tanks like Warhammer Online keep geting not just fucking pass but promotions in the Biz?
Hell they should be blacklisted every one them, so they cant even work in the fucking mailroom in game company.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
http://www.swtor.com/rothc?intcmp=so...kt-t-us-hp-013

5 level xpac. As light as some of their patches have been compared to WoW (their admitted gold standard), I don't really want to give them $10 or $20 because some irresponsible manager at Bioware didn't stop to think how the fuck they were going to pay for fully voiced content. .
To be honest, they should dump their freemium setup and move solely towards this: Selling additional blocks of content for $10 to $20 a pop.

This won't fix the debacle that is their endgame, but it will bring in a valid source of revenue that players do not mind paying for, versus asking people to pay for base features.

I like SWTORs storylines. The problem is it just doesn't fit into the MMO mold, in any way.
 

Cantatus

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,437
79
The Gamasutra article does a really good job at summing up the faults of ToR's F2P system. BioWare/EA didn't really understand that part of the reason MMOs go F2P is to grow their communities. Even if you have a bunch of people who never pay a dime, having more people means your paying customers are happier because they can actually find groups in a reasonable amount of time. That, in turn, can also encourage more F2P players to subscribe (or use the cash store). Instead, they went overboard on looking for ways to nickel and dime anyone that downloads the game, to the point where it's not going to help the community at all, particularly by limiting how many times people can do dungeons and such.

I read a developer (think it was for Champions Online) recently say that in F2P MMOs you generally have a very small portion of the population supplementing the rest of the players. I think the problem ToR has, however, is that the game was such a big, expensive project that burned out very fast that they can't rely on something like that. So, instead of a reasonable F2P system, they came up with one that throws up roadblocks in front of you constantly, basically begging F2P players to cough up a little cash, and it remains to be seen how successful doing F2P that way is going to be.
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
Brand New Republic Show Out of Control


http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game...ut-of-control/

No Holidays like Fox News Bioware is haveing War on Xmas.

PTW to win in space.

Expensive Mounts.

Bioware gives 1 year celebration fireworks , that when you try to use 1, it takes you to even subbed , to the cartel market and asks if wanna Upgrade them for fireworks from the cartel market to fireworks that dont suck.

LOL to it all.
 

Bacon_sl

shitlord
91
0
Watching that show is depressing as hell. I started the game at launch and I enjoyed the leveling experience. Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior were awesome stories. I want this game to succeed, but there is just too many missteps moving to the f2p model. This is one of the highest valued ips on the planet. The fact that they're reduced to f2p to lure people in before celebrating 1 year is sad. The implementation of it looks like a last minute cash grab. What disturbs me most about the play to win is the crystals/ship upgrades. Why add something that would kill crafting? Cartel market should be simple unlocks or cosmetic. Want a mount sooner? Pay for it. Want gear that boosts your xp gains by 20 percent? Pay for it. Get free players sucked into the fully featured game and get them to max level. Once a player feels invested, that's when you got them. Charge for quality endgame content or frequent expansions.

I never understood why developers shoot their entire load at launch. The level cap is just a number. Release could have a max level of 20, 30, who gives a fuck? At launch, you release those first 30 levels, but have 50 completed. Trickling content out gives the illusion of active development. All the while you're creating level 60+ content. Once you see subscription decline, release another expansion. It's sad that I'm hoping for Disney to step in, cause it can't get much worse at this point.

It doesn't help that their first expansion, after going f2p, is the Hutt Cartel...
 

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,665
1,048
Any more information about the 'xpac' available? The official page doesn't say much other than 'more story quest' and +5 level cap.
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
Any more information about the 'xpac' available? The official page doesn't say much other than 'more story quest' and +5 level cap.
Not much but its Darth Hater site he does Gamebreaker tv the republic show weekly , its his site.

http://www.darthhater.com/


here is the link to the new vague info.


http://www.darthhater.com/articles/s...-new-expansion


also its Allison the Intern Berryman as have nicknamed her, she usally like deer in the headlights but you cant blame the poor girl working for these Liars nothing any of them say from the newest head hickman to the old heads, they promise the moon and most the time dont happen.
So would take anything they say as Grain of Salt.
Hell they said MakeB would be end of this year, very early in the year, they said it would be with 1.5 patch content update, with ranked warzones, paid xfers, chat bubbles, name changes.

Hell they even said new flashpoints, well none that happend their nickel dimeing content patches now with like 1 small thing and calling it content.

They even had the Trailer for 1.5 and can watch it, and laugh at all the shit they promised they since lied about.
 

Illuziun

Bronze Knight of the Realm
209
16
Looks like they had a big update, decided to bump everything five levels, than call it an expansion and charge people for it. EA working people.

They're going to basically void all previous content with this, so everything is going back to zero as far as end game goes. That is unless they bump all of the previous end game content or supply tons of new content, which I don't think either are going to happen.