Teaching English as a foreign language

Don't know about the TEFL, but I know you can find a job in 3 days if english is your mothertongue, it's even decently paid (at least 300k VND / $15 per hour for a beginner in one of those language school), which is already enough to live confortably everywhere (well Hanoi is getting somewhat expensive if you want to live with the western confort, but $1500 a month should be enough, and you should be able to win significantly more than that after a few months.

Froyo3652 said:

I'm looking into the possibility of becoming an English teacher in Vietnam but I have a couple questions that I hope can be answered.

Is anyone here familiar with Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificates?

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I teach English as a second language as a career. I've been doing it for about 8 - 9 years now. I started doing it overseas (Russia, Spain, Kazakhstan) and now I do it full-time in the U.S. I'll address some of your questions below, but if you have more questions feel free to ask.

TEFL certificates vary WILDLY and there is no real control or oversight of them. My advice would be to spend the extra time and money and get a CELTA. A CELTA is head-and-shoulders above any other TEFL certificate, and it is pretty much the internationally recognized standard in every country but the United States and Canada. If you have a CELTA, the entire world opens up to you. I have a CELTA, and I'm in the process of becoming a CELTA trainer myself, so if you have any CELTA-specific questions, let me know.

I have heard finding a teaching job is like being a kid in a candy store, but I didn't know even beginner jobs would pay so well. I plan to find a job before I leave the US but I'm terrified of being offered a job that pays the equivalent of $15USD per hour only to have them say "Oh, we're only giving you $5 per hour" when I get to Vietnam. As for the living conditions (and expensiveness) of living near Hanoi, I've already decided to live in southern Vietnam near HCMC; mainly because I've been told by several native Vietnamese that they are generally less rude to foreigners but I believe it's also slightly cheaper there.

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Kind of going back to my previous point about getting a well-recognized TEFL cert, the more credentials you have, the more opportunities you'll have for better schools. All English schools are NOT created equal, but by sticking with some of the well-known ones, you can pretty much guarantee at least a certain level of professionalism. For example, International House is based in England, and they are good about being professional, honoring contracts, and paying livable wages as a result. Another solid one is The British Council. You could also find a chain of schools that is local to the region you're going (in your case, Vietnam). You're more likely to get a good salary and reliable professionalism from a chain of schools that is used to dealing with foreign teachers as opposed to a single mom and pop school where you might be their only foreigner.

The necessity of a bachelor's degree was one of my biggest concerns, thank you. Are you able to comment on the kind of wage differences a new expatriate can expect while holding a bachelor's degree plus TEFL (TEFL is a required document for all intents and purposes) vs someone just holding a TEFL?

Also, I've been reading up on different versions of TEFL; Do you know what kind of differences (when looking for a job, in rate of pay, etc.) I should expect with a CELTA certificate vs a TESOL? Those are the two TEFL's I am most likely to choose between when I start taking classes here.

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As long as you're working for a reputable school, you will make at least a livable wage for the area you're in. Schools that trick people into coming and not honoring their contracts don't last long, because people just hop back on a plane and leave. Like most jobs, the more credentials you bring to the table, the more money you'll be able to negotiate. If you have just a TEFL certificate, you will probably have trouble finding a job at truly reputable, international English schools (International House, British Council, etc.). If you have a TEFL cert and a bachelor's, more doors will open, and you'll be able to command a (slightly) higher salary. A CELTA + a bachelor's degree (especially if that degree is in a language-related field) and you pretty much have all the bargaining power in the world.

One important thing to find out when looking for a job is whether you have to pay rent yourself, or an apartment is provided for you as part of your package. Obviously, if an apartment is provided for you, you can get by with considerably less salary. On the other hand, if you're expected to pay your own rent and utilities, you'll need to make sure that you're going to have enough money left over to live comfortably each month. Personally, I'd never go with a school that didn't provide an apartment for me. I know people who had to pay their own rent (although they received a stipend each month) and they ran into headaches of rent increases and dealing with landlords. That shit is hard enough in your home country, so imagine it abroad.

Any other things you guys could say to quell my fears of literally moving to the other side of the world would be appreciated.

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Before signing a contract with any school, shoot some emails to some of their teachers. You can simply ask the hiring person for contact information. If the school is reputable, they won't mind letting you talk to some of their current teachers. If a school ever declines, abort! That's a HUGE red flag.

Don't worry about taxes. The chances of you making enough money (especially working in a place like Vietnam) for it to be an issue with the American government is practically zero.

Learn some of the language before you go. Knowing even a little bit can make the first days and weeks SO much easier. Don't be one of those typical teachers who shows up in another country knowing only English.

If you decide to get a CELTA, a good option is to do your CELTA training in (or near) the country where you eventually want to teach. Not only will this be good cultural exposure and let you sort of stick your toes in the water, it can also give you some great networking opportunities. For example, I did my CELTA in Spain, and several people were able to get jobs teaching there immediately after finishing their CELTA.

Keep in mind that a lot of schools view you with the same risk that you view them. They don't know you, and they don't know that you're going to honor anything you say. They could go through all the signing paperwork, government issues, etc., only to have you be like "Nah, gonna pass after all. Peace out!" via email a day before your arrival. Don't take things personally, and remember it's all business.

Froyo3652 said:

I have heard finding a teaching job is like being a kid in a candy store, but I didn't know even beginner jobs would pay so well. I plan to find a job before I leave the US but I'm terrified of being offered a job that pays the equivalent of $15USD per hour only to have them say "Oh, we're only giving you $5 per hour" when I get to Vietnam. As for the living conditions (and expensiveness) of living near Hanoi, I've already decided to live in southern Vietnam near HCMC; mainly because I've been told by several native Vietnamese that they are generally less rude to foreigners but I believe it's also slightly cheaper there.

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Saigon is indeed slightly cheaper, and yeah people in the south are nicer. Saigon is quite easy to live in nowadays, you can find decent western food, a lot of people speak english , and there is a large number of english speaking expatriates. The drawback is obviously that you have more competition in your business. Basicaly what you are supposed to do if you're serious about teaching and living a while in Vietnam is to start teaching in the language schools and start finding students for private tutoring, if you're good, you'll end up with classes of 20 vietnamese in your appartment paying each 100k VND per hour, i.e. close to $100 per hour. It's significantly easier to achieve that in Hanoi, where good english teachers are in very high demand, and are much rarer than in Saigon.

Basicaly if you want an easy 3/6 months vacation, Saigon is the way to go. If you believe you're there for longer than that, probably heading for Hanoi straight away is the better move, you'll find more high paying opportunities. As for the cost of living, Hanoi used to be much cheaper than Saigon, nowadays I'd say Hanoi is slightly more expensive now but it's not so different.

I'm being told that people are starting to try to avoid language schools because there are too many unprofessionnal backpackers teaching for a couple of weeks here and there to pay for their vacations, and a lot of them are just bad at it. So if you're looking for a good job, try to not look like one, the "cool american in thongs, a flower shirt and a long beard" is not as popular as it used to be for those kind of jobs.

kegkilla said:

man this sounds, i wish i would have done something like this out of college. which country is best for banging underage girls?

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Korea.

Froyo3652 said:

Have you lived in Vietnam, to know that for sure? My contacts who live in HCMC have been there their whole lives and say all of their teachers had no issues finding jobs.

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I've spent over a year in Vietnam now, the wife is vietnamese ( from Hanoi), I've spent about 40% of my time in the north and 30% in the south and 30% in the center. My advice would be to see for yourself, HAN-SGN is 2 hours and you can find flights for as low as $60, you can find decent hotels both in Saigon and Hanoi for $20 a night, so checking both for 4/5 days each would be rather cheap, hell you could even try Da Nang which is becoming a major touristic city, no doubt you can easily find a job there as well.

Anyway, if you made plans months in advance to come in Vietnam, you probably made your first mistake. If you're dealing with locals expect whatever deal you negociated to not be quite what you expected and to have to find a new job quickly, which should be rather easy. When in Rome, do as the Roman do, they say. Well in Vietnam it means to not plan too much ahead and to hope for the best. If you're considering Vietnam and not Korea or Japan it means you're not too risk-averse and I'm quite sure that whatever deal you found in advance, you can find much better within weeks once you arrived.

Note that there isn't much love between the south and the north vietnamese, so if you talked to southern vietnamese, they'll tell you north is shit and it works the other way around. So you can't trust too much what they say. For me, it's obvious that in this business there are more opportunities in the north (where it's not quite as organized as in the south) and there is more security in the south (the business is more organized...).

Chysamere said:

I've taught English in Japan for 5 years now. I got the job without a CELTA, TEFL, or any other kind of qualification other than a uni degree.

The company you work for matters far more than anything else.

Edit: My background is in Business, no teaching anywhere in my resume. I ended up teaching Business English in the Wall Street area of Tokyo.

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When you say "company," do you teach English in a corporate environment or do you teach English in a private language school?

Chysamere said:

Both. I teach at a private language school, but I also contract out teaching lessons at various companies directly to the students in groups of usually 3-6, but as many as 12, and sometimes 1 on 1. I teach some pretty famous and well known people at top global companies but I have confidentiality agreements so I'm not allowed to discuss them.

That's kind of out of reach of a new teacher to the country so I was referring more to him joining a language company in Korea. Which one he joins really matters. Do the research - there's usually forums discussing the pros and cons of each language company, especially the cons, and see if they are ones you can live with.

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OK. That's basically what I did as well. I always hated teaching the corporate clients, but it was the best money by far.