The Astronomy Thread

opiate82

opiate82

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LachiusTZ_sl said:
Have any of you guys heard the arguments for settling Venus instead of Mars? I read them a week or so ago, and they were pretty compelling.
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I haven't heard the arguments, have some specific links you found insightful? I'd be interested.

Did they take into account the relatively new information that water and methane could/should be fairly easily accessible on Mars?
 
Cad

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LachiusTZ_sl said:
Have any of you guys heard the arguments for settling Venus instead of Mars? I read them a week or so ago, and they were pretty compelling.
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How could that be possible? Humans on Venus? I'd love to see the docs too because that seems unbelievable considering the soviets have barely been able to get probes to survive on the surface for a couple hours much less land people.
 
Merrith

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Mark me down as someone else who'd love to see the links comparing settling Venus to Mars.
 
Tuco

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The Vanera landers and their lens caps crack me up. I can feel their frustration with it.

The Venera 9 to 12 probes were of a different design. They weighed approximately five tons and were launched by the powerful Proton booster. They included a transfer and relay bus that had engines to brake into Venus orbit (Venera 9 and 10, 15 and 16) and to serve as receiver and relay for the entry probe's transmissions. The entry probe was attached to the top of the bus in a spherical heat shield. The probes were optimized for surface operations with an unusual looking design that included a spherical compartment to protect the electronics from atmospheric pressure and heat for as long as possible. Beneath this was a shock absorbing "crush ring" for landing. Above the pressure sphere was a cylindrical antenna structure and a wide dish shaped structure that resembled an antenna but was actually an aerobrake. They were designed to operate on the surface for a minimum of 30 minutes. Instruments varied on different missions, but included cameras and atmospheric and soil analysis equipment. All four landers had problems with some or all of their camera lens caps not releasing.

The Venera 9 lander operated for at least 53 minutes and took pictures with one of two cameras; the other lens cap did not release.

The Venera 10 lander operated for at least 65 minutes and took pictures with one of two cameras; the other lens cap did not release.

The Venera 11 lander operated for at least 95 minutes but neither cameras' lens caps released.

The Venera 12 lander operated for at least 110 minutes but neither cameras' lens caps released.
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gUgFJGp.jpg


See that picture on the right? Do you see that big chunk of semi-circular metal in the middle? That's a lens cap. It protects the camera from the Lovecraftian hell that is Venus' atmosphere during the decent. Once the probe lands it pops off so the camera can take a few pictures before being destroyed by the weather.

The Russians had a huge number of problems with those caps; they wouldn't come off. They sent a bunch of probes to Venus that had issues with those lens caps failing to work.

See that picture on the left? Do you see that extended arm-like thing? Once the probe has landed, that arm extends so it touches the ground and gets details of what the surface of Venus is composed of.

Do you see what it's sitting on? That's right. The lens cap.

They finally got the lens cap to come off successfully and it fell in exactly the spot where their surface instrument was supposed to go.

All that instrument did was send back to Russia information about the composition of their own lens cap.
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Lenas

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Cad_sl said:
How could that be possible? Humans on Venus? I'd love to see the docs too because that seems unbelievable considering the soviets have barely been able to get probes to survive on the surface for a couple hours much less land people.
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The theories I've read about included floating giant balloon cities up in a relatively comfortable cloud climate like Bioshock Infinite. It would work because of the different layers of gas density that is the Venusian atmosphere, or something. Have never read a plan about people actually wanting to live on the surface.
 
W

WHITE PENIS_sl

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I'm all for sending probes on Venus just to see some different landscapes. I live in California and there are areas of the Mojave desert that look almost exactly like Mars. I want us to land probes on other planets and moons before I die.
 
I

Itzena_sl

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Lenas_sl said:
The theories I've read about included floating giant balloon cities up in a relatively comfortable cloud climate like Bioshock Infinite. It would work because of the different layers of gas density that is the Venusian atmosphere, or something. Have never read a plan about people actually wanting to live on the surface.
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Yeah, that's basically it. Build Cloud City about 30-35 miles up and Venus' atmosphere is pretty much at standard pressure and hot but survivable.
 
Tripamang

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Lenas_sl said:
The theories I've read about included floating giant balloon cities up in a relatively comfortable cloud climate like Bioshock Infinite. It would work because of the different layers of gas density that is the Venusian atmosphere, or something. Have never read a plan about people actually wanting to live on the surface.
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Yea the pressure of the atmosphere is so high that we can build floating cities that would sit above all the terrible shit at ground level. At the height that the cities would float you'd be looking at similar atmospheric pressure to earth and the temperature outside would fluctuate between earth like temperatures but obviously the atmosphere is toxic. Venus doesn't have a magnetic shield like earth but the atmosphere blocks about the same amount of radiation at the height the cities would float as you would get at ground level on earth. So in theory there are fewer things to deal with in terms of colonizing a planet if you choose Venus over Mars.

Plus you could start terra-forming the atmosphere from your floating city with the hopes that ground level eventually becomes livable.
 
iannis

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Cad_sl said:
How could that be possible? Humans on Venus? I'd love to see the docs too because that seems unbelievable considering the soviets have barely been able to get probes to survive on the surface for a couple hours much less land people.
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Orbital, not ground.

Which honestly mars seems more attainable at first. You can always dig down and exploit traditional resources. But who knows, with 3d printing, boundless solar energy, and giant carbon dioxide scoops... maybe some orbital heavy industry is possible too.
 
Big Phoenix

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No idea why you would ever consider colonizing Venus aside from theorycrafting. Mars has large amounts of water, low gravity and no atmosphere and is closer to the outer solar system/asteroid belt with its endless booty of easily accessible raw materials.
 
Cad

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Err... what would you do in your orbital colony? You wouldn't have access to water, no land, no oxygen.. if it's going to be orbital why not built it in earth orbit?

I guess I'm asking whats the point?
 
Palum

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Cad_sl said:
Err... what would you do in your orbital colony? You wouldn't have access to water, no land, no oxygen.. if it's going to be orbital why not built it in earth orbit?

I guess I'm asking whats the point?
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Because it's edgy. God.
 
iannis

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Cad_sl said:
Err... what would you do in your orbital colony? You wouldn't have access to water, no land, no oxygen.. if it's going to be orbital why not built it in earth orbit?

I guess I'm asking whats the point?
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He'll I dunno. But the raw materials are there for some alchemy if you mine the atmosphere. You can make water with electricity, and oxygen, and you'll have more carbon than you'd ever know what to do with.

I do think mars might make more sense at first, if only because it is terrestrial enough to seem familiar. But most arguments that would apply to the colonization exploitation of mars would apply about equally well to Venus. And it would be possible on Venus, just weirder.
 
Palum

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Really? I mean let's say there's a bunch of independent, self-sufficient colony buildings on Mars. One goes bad so you move to the other one. You are in a self sufficient bubble in Venus. It goes bad so you ... ??

It just seems the closer you get to Earth (IE, gravity and dirt) the easier it gets.
 
iannis

iannis

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Die screaming for the Lord's mercy.

But honestly, that's kinda the deal on mars too. It really won't be like Matt Damon. Well, wtf do I know about it -- but really though. I have to think that Any initial colonies will be utterly reliant on their technological infrastructure. Even should they become self sustaining they will always be reliant on a manufactured ecosystem.

It's just inhospitable, is all. Both of them.
 
Palum

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Iannis_sl said:
Die screaming for the Lord's mercy.

But honestly, that's kinda the deal on mars too.
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Yea but I'm saying redundancy is a lot easier when you can walk to it vs. explode out of your bubble or hope your escape capsule thingy isn't damaged.
 
Siddar

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If we can build cloud cities on Venus why haven't we went a cloud satellite there yet?
 
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