The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !

Joeboo

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Not to mention that AMD chips can outperform Intel chips in applications that actually use multi/additional cores, and with a dedicated video game system the games might actually do so, rather than on a PC where you can't optimize that specifically. I've owned PCs with AMD processors and Intel processors(I'm currently on an Intel-based system) but for a console, it really doesn't matter.
 

Man0warr

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Shocker, consoles don't sell when they have few games (two?) worth buying. Nintendo should of just delayed the launch until their game lineup was better, but they knew what was going to happen and still went through with it. Not really a new phenomenon, PS3 and 3DS both went through the same thing.

Only game I have on Wii U has about 150 hours of play time though, go go Monster Hunter.
 

Cor_sl

shitlord
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And in somewhat "Next Gen Console" related news, Wii-U is selling horribly(shocking, I know). Wii has outsold Wii-U since the Wii-U launch

http://www.t3.com/news/wii-outsells-wii-u
I don't think that's too unusual. The PS2 was massively outselling the PS3 for months, for example. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 360 and the PS3 outsell their predecessors for the first year or so after launch.

Nintendo's earnings report made for some seriously grim reading, though. Analysts predicted that Nintendo would report an operating loss of $180 million; they reported a loss of $366 million instead.

Looking at the Wii U, sales are shitty, and it's unlikely they'll pick up any time soon with no games on the horizon. They're going to need a miracle to turn things around for the Wii U.

The handheld division didn't perform too well, either, with revenue only slightly up YOY (http://abload.de/img/nintendo_sales_by_typ3cd25.png). Personally, I can only see things getting worse for the 3ds from here on in. Smartphones are cheaper and more powerful than ever before, and they're getting cheaper and more powerful each year. I don't see how the 3ds can hope to compete.

Shocker, consoles don't sell when they have few games (two?) worth buying. Nintendo should of just delayed the launch until their game lineup was better, but they knew what was going to happen and still went through with it. Not really a new phenomenon, PS3 and 3DS both went through the same thing.

Only game I have on Wii U has about 150 hours of play time though, go go Monster Hunter.
Delaying it wouldn't have accomplished anything. The Wii U would then be launching against the 720 and the PS4 and it wouldn't stand a chance against either console.

In truth, the Wii U should have launched two-three years ago when the Wii was at its peak. They would have been able to capitalise on the Wii craze and keep the momentum going.
 

Man0warr

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The handheld division didn't perform too well, either, with revenue only slightly up YOY (http://abload.de/img/nintendo_sales_by_typ3cd25.png). Personally, I can only see things getting worse for the 3ds from here on in. Smartphones are cheaper and more powerful than ever before, and they're getting cheaper and more powerful each year. I don't see how the 3ds can hope to compete.
Unless smartphones go backwards tech wise and add tactile controls, they'll never compete as gaming devices with the 3DS and Vita. Also, mobile game studios that are less than 2 years old are already closing left and right. Smartphones are great for quick, easy games between reading your emails, sending texts, or social media - but if I'm going to sit down for a gaming session and I want to play an RPG or some Monster Hunter I could never do that on a smartphone.

Sure some small subset of handheld's user base may just start getting their gaming fix from smartphones (people who had a 3DS/Vita for games like Bejeweled, Sudoku, and Lumines), but they weren't the majority of people who bought handhelds. Playing games that need a joystick and buttons on a touchscreen is miserable.
 

Cor_sl

shitlord
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Unless smartphones go backwards tech wise and add tactile controls, they'll never compete as gaming devices with the 3DS and Vita. Also, mobile game studios that are less than 2 years old are already closing left and right. Smartphones are great for quick, easy games between reading your emails, sending texts, or social media - but if I'm going to sit down for a gaming session and I want to play an RPG or some Monster Hunter I could never do that on a smartphone.

Sure some small subset of handheld's user base may just start getting their gaming fix from smartphones (people who had a 3DS/Vita for games like Bejeweled, Sudoku, and Lumines), but they weren't the majority of people who bought handhelds. Playing games that need a joystick and buttons on a touchscreen is miserable.
You're wrong.

How many people bought DSs because of Nintendogs, Brain Training, Professor Layton, and games like that? Fuck loads. Those people are now gaming on their smartphones, and they're not coming back to Nintendo's handhelds.

The 3ds, in the US, is down in sales YOY for 8 months running. It's not performing well anywhere but Japan (and maybe France). You may not like to hear it, but people don't care about dedicated handhelds as much as they used to. I don't see that changing any time soon.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
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The handheld division didn't perform too well, either, with revenue only slightly up YOY (http://abload.de/img/nintendo_sales_by_typ3cd25.png). Personally, I can only see things getting worse for the 3ds from here on in. Smartphones are cheaper and more powerful than ever before, and they're getting cheaper and more powerful each year. I don't see how the 3ds can hope to compete.
They'll get a massive boost in sales the moment that the next Pokemon game comes out. Nintendo's handheld platforms are never going to be phased out due to the popularity of the software that they offer. The junk smartphone market isn't even remotely comparable in quality to the games that Nintendo offers and Nintendo's ability to continue to deliver amazing titles on their handheld platforms will keep them in the business for a long time to come.

If anything I could see them dropping their main console development completely and focusing completely on their handheld line, they're practically doing that right now as it is with how they're handling software right now.
 

Man0warr

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You're wrong.

How many people bought DSs because of Nintendogs, Brain Training, Professor Layton, and games like that? Fuck loads. Those people are now gaming on their smartphones, and they're not coming back to Nintendo's handhelds.

The 3ds, in the US, is down in sales YOY for 8 months running. It's not performing well anywhere but Japan (and maybe France). You may not like to hear it, but people don't care about dedicated handhelds as much as they used to. I don't see that changing any time soon.
Yeah, no.

Sure a lot of people bought a DS for Nintendogs and Brain Training (and a lot of educational orgs/schools, which won't move to smartphones). But Nintendo's system sellers on their handhelds are Pokemon, Mario platformers, Mario Kart, and RPGs - none of those are coming to smartphones.

Hell, there isn't even an iOS game of the quality of Brain Training or Professor Layton. People will still buy those games on 3DS/DS.

There's 100,000+ games on the Apple Store, and maybe 20-40 even worth a shit. Meanwhile, every first party Nintendo game is quality.
 

Joeboo

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But you have to consider, will people be satisfied by those 20-40 decent games on an app store for a device they already own(no additional hardware purchase/expense) or will they be spending $$ on additional hardware to play mobile games? A lot of people have already decided to make due with their phone/tablet, and I can't see those numbers doing anything but increasing. I don't think it will happen real soon, but I could easily see portable gaming devices going the way of standalone GPS units in cars. Why buy one when you get roughly the same functionality out of a device you already own?
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
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Why buy one when you get roughly the same functionality out of a device you already own?
You're never going to get the same functionality out of a smartphone as a dedicated handheld unless they massively change the form factor on them. The only thing you can do is play shitty touch screen games that are in no way comparable to what Nintendo offers in quality.

A need for dedicated, tactile controls is never going to disappear. Neither is the need for high quality software. Smartphone shovelware game offerings are in no way a replacement for real gaming.

As long as Nintendo keeps making high quality games they're not going anywhere and their handhelds will continue to be relevant. They'll only disappear if they stop making them and people stop caring about their exclusive IPs.
 

Cor_sl

shitlord
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I don't know why you're bringing up the quality of games. Sure, you people who visit a "hardcore" MMO forum care about the quality of your handheld gaming experiences, but the majority of people don't. My darling Mother who spent literally hundreds of hours playing Brain Age and Nintendogs on her DS isn't buying a 3DS; she's happy gaming on her iPad and her iPhone. To these people, smartphones games are "good enough", and these are the people that made the DS the huge success that it was.

Instead of saying "Nintendo makes awesome games! People will love them!", look at the sales data. The 3ds is down in sales in the US year on year for 8 months running. It showed very little growth in sales over the past 12 months worldwide according to the data released by Nintendo today during its end of year financial report (it sold 450,000 more units this year than last). It failed to meet Nintendo's original sales targets, and then it failed to meet their revised sales targets. Whichever way you look at it, the 3ds is underperforming sales wise.

So, what is causing the poor sales performance? Lack of games, maybe? Well, outside of Pokemon, all the major Nintendo handheld IPs are already represented on the 3ds. NSMB2, Mario Kart, Nintendogs, Brain Age, and Animal Crossing already have 3ds versions, so it can't be a lack of games.

So, if it's not a lack of quality software, what is causing 3ds sales to underperform? The growing popularity of smartphones and tablets is the obvious answer.

Hell, there isn't even an iOS game of the quality of Brain Training or Professor Layton. People will still buy those games on 3DS/DS.
Actually, the 3ds versions of Nintendogs and Brain Training haven't sold anywhere as well as their DS counterparts. Brain Training 1 & 2 sold 35 million copies combined on the DS; the 3ds version hasn't even sold a million copies. Nintendogs sold 30 million copies on the DS; it's managed 4 million on the 3ds.

But you have to consider, will people be satisfied by those 20-40 decent games on an app store for a device they already own(no additional hardware purchase/expense) or will they be spending $$ on additional hardware to play mobile games? A lot of people have already decided to make due with their phone/tablet, and I can't see those numbers doing anything but increasing. I don't think it will happen real soon, but I could easily see portable gaming devices going the way of standalone GPS units in cars. Why buy one when you get roughly the same functionality out of a device you already own?
Pretty much. Outside of the small niche of handheld gamers that hate touch controls, smartphones and tablets will be good enough for the vast majority of handheld gamers. It'll probably take a few years for handheld sales to completely die down, though.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
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And none of that is going to drive Nintendo out of the market. Nintendo will still make money hand over fist on their handheld division and their first party IPs will continue to sell as long as they keep up the quality and people will buy handhelds to play them. Will they ever hit the same numbers they did before? Maybe not, but they'll still be quite successful.

Smartphones are not going to make Nintendo disappear.
 

Cor_sl

shitlord
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Except they're not making money hand over fist. They just posted a $360 million operating loss for this past financial year, which is two years in a row where they've made a loss.

Look at Nintendo's handheld revenue -

nintendo_sales_by_typ3cd25.png


It experienced a slight uptick this year vs last; nothing to brag about.

Compare this to smartphones and tablets.

According to App Annie, the ios app store and the Play store experienced huge growth in Q1 2013 vs Q4 2012.

app-annie-index-2013q1-app-revenue.png


Their data also shows that 70% of the ios app store revenue is generated by games and 80% of the play store revenue is generated by games.

(http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-i...arket-q1-2013/)

Smartphone/tablet gaming is growing at a staggeringly quick pace, whereas Nintendo's 3ds is underperforming in the marketplace.

Is Nintendo going away in the next few years? No. But, unless they turn things around in a big way, they're going to be in a very bad place in a few years time. The only thing protecting Nintendo from a hostile takeover at the moment is their warchest. If they lose that, a company like Disney could swoop in and pillage Nintendo's IPs, which would effectively be the end of Nintendo.

nintendo_sales_by_typ3cd25.png


app-annie-index-2013q1-app-revenue.png
 

Erronius

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They'll get a massive boost in sales the moment that the next Pokemon game comes out. Nintendo's handheld platforms are never going to be phased out due to the popularity of the software that they offer.
Personally I think if you're predicating your business model and keeping a console like the 3DS afloat based solely on the sales of a few games like Pokemon or whatever else, then you're taking an incredible risk. And let's face it, at one point in time we could have heard someone voice a similar sentiment in regards to their main consoles, such as"The Nintendo Home Consoles are never going to be phased out due to the popularity of the software they offer", yet you yourself say:

If anythingI could see them dropping their main console development completely and focusing completely on their handheld line, they're practically doing that right now as it is with how they're handling software right now.
Mind you I agree with your opinion on software and I hate the direction their consoles have gone, it's that I simply don't want to assume that their handhelds will never be phased out either. Particularly in regards to:

The junk smartphone market isn't even remotely comparable in quality to the games that Nintendo offers and Nintendo's ability to continue to deliver amazing titles on their handheld platforms will keep them in the business for a long time to come.
But Nintendo's system sellers on their handhelds are Pokemon, Mario platformers, Mario Kart, and RPGs - none of those are coming to smartphones.
You know, at one time handhelds were roundly dismissed and home consoles were thought to be unassailable. Personally I think that it would be insane to think that smartphones and other alternatives to traditional handhelds such as tablets are, and will always be, incapable of competing. And sure, their offerings may be a joke today as compared to what Nintendo offers - but we did just have a debate over Jaguar in regards to PS4 a page or two ago, but Jaguar is already slated to be used in APUs for all kinds of other hardware. So in a sense, it seems bizarre to have people defend the PS4 and its APU's capability, then only a couple pages later have people roundly dismiss other alternatives to handhelds when many tablets will have similar AMD architecture (and I would bet that phones will have a precipitous power boost as well in the near future).

Now before anyone gets too bent out of shape, I know that you both said smartphones and not tablets - but with the way the market is today not only would I not be surprised to see the smartphone paradigm such at it is be completely different in 3-5 years (or even sooner perhaps), but I also see the line between smartphones and other handhelds such as tablets blur. We could very quickly see the balance shift to a large degree, and if that were to happen we could very possibly see the game market for those devices explode and Nintendo could be left wondering why its sales of"Mario Kart #1,392"or"Pokemon: World of Platinum Ninja Mystery detectives save Sean's cats 2.0"and sales of the 3DS itself suddenly plummeted.

AMD Reveals Its Reference Tablet Designs

I mean, seriously. I don't think the biggest coup out there regarding AMD/Jaguar/Temesh/etc will be the PS4, given the predicted lowering of heat and power consumption the PS4 front may not even be where AMD really starts raking in the cash. And if we start seeing the bar raised even faster in regards to smartphone and tablet power, we'll also see an associated surge of developers tripping over themselves to produce better quality games too.
 

Joeboo

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You're never going to get the same functionality out of a smartphone as a dedicated handheld unless they massively change the form factor on them. The only thing you can do is play shitty touch screen games that are in no way comparable to what Nintendo offers in quality.

A need for dedicated, tactile controls is never going to disappear. Neither is the need for high quality software. Smartphone shovelware game offerings are in no way a replacement for real gaming.

As long as Nintendo keeps making high quality games they're not going anywhere and their handhelds will continue to be relevant. They'll only disappear if they stop making them and people stop caring about their exclusive IPs.
What about Pokemon couldn't be done on a touch screen? Handheld gaming by default is aready pretty simplified compared to a full console controller, there's no reason that most of the games couldn't be simplified even further to work on a touch screen. Hell, Nintendo themselves is already moving towards using touch screens more with the inclusion of the one in the 3DS as well as the Wii-U. In general, Nintendo made their name on simplistic, fun games that most people of any age could pick up and easily start playing, that ideal fits right in to a touchscreen device.

Look, I'm not saying dedicated mobile devices like the gameboy are going to disappear, hell, GPSes are still selling and needed in certain industries. There will always be a hardcore group of customers that want their dedicated device. But their sales are definitely going to be significantly affected going forward
 

Tuco

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I prefer tactile controls but yeah, kids are growing up playing games on their parents smartphones and I can easily see smartphones supplanting the handheld gaming market.
 

Uriel

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Yeah, gf's cousins used to play on their DS, now it's all ipad and itouch. It's crazy the types of games they play on there, stuff I wold never want to play with touch controls like minecraft and shooters.