The D&D thread

Qhue said:

I'm curious if history will repeat itself and D&D serves as the intro/gateway into TTRPGs and then people branch out from there to more interesting systems/settings?

I was playing in a D&D zoom game for a couple years but then the existing GM wanted a break so I took over with a new steampunk setting using the Earthdawn rules and everyone seems much more engaged.

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You mean for this "next generation" of gamers who are playing D&D for the first time? If so, I'm sure it will. If tradition holds, D&D might keep a stranglehold on the fantasy genre for TTRPGs, but there will be plenty of popular non-fantasy options.

For the record, I'm hoping someone can come up with a fantasy TTRPG system that dethrones D&D. I'm in the finishing stages of developing a fantasy TTRPG, so obviously I'm biased but... The timing seems pretty good for a competitor to come along.

Edit: Meant to say that there will be plenty of new gamers for the non-fantasy TTRPG options out there.

What are DnD's competitors at this point? Of any genre. I'm aware of Pathfinder and Starfinder, and I keep seeing Call of Cthulu. Anything really big other than DnD?

Dashel said:

What are DnD's competitors at this point? Of any genre. I'm aware of Pathfinder and Starfinder, and I keep seeing Call of Cthulu. Anything really big other than DnD?

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There are hundreds of alternatives: Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Burning Wheel, Mouseguard, etc. But none of them are close to the size of DnD.

PF probably counts as a "competitor" for DnD, but I think it's the only one. I could be missing some though, it's been a long time since I hung out in a hobby shop.

At best, most new ttrpgs get a small but dedicated following, and even those are lucky if they stay alive for more than a few years. It's a super tough space to try and make a living.

i think warhammer probably counts as a competitor too. but none of them have broken into the mainstream the way that dnd has. it's similar to certain us regions referring to all soda as "coke." even when it wasn't super popular, people still knew about dnd. if i tell my non gaming friends that i have a weekly dnd game, they might not really know what that entails, but they knew what it is. if i say i have a weekly call of cthulu or pathfinder game, i'd have to phrase it in a way that uses dnd as a comparison.

I think of them more like systems, whatever system is the most fun will prevail. My favorite is Savage Worlds, followed by the D6 Pip system used in Vampire, hunter, and warhammer then last is D20 aka DnD but I am most familiar with those rules so it remains the easiest game to run.
5e made it really easy to learn D20 ruleset as well so that allows for new players.

Personally I always liked the d20 system over the rest. It just made the most sense. I really got into it when me and gang played 3.5 for like 5yrs. Then from there we transitioned to 4e. And they all took to it much more. Two of my friends played 3.5 chars for 5yrs and just "rolled to attack" every single time. But once they saw abilities in 4e they went nuts doing all sorts of stuff. I was happy how much more enjoyable it was for them. We also tried 5e one time. And my same two friends were like wtf I can't do anything anymore. Buy my friends group aren't think out of the box kinda people. If it ain't in their face they don't see it.

Right 5e seems to be the overwhelming favorite in terms of players, and then 3.5/Pathfinder has a strong following. It's just weird that there is nothing bigger. For card games I think Pokemon, MTG, Yugioh and whatever else are all pretty damn big as far as I'm aware.

I very seriously doubt that any TTRPG is going to ever carve out a niche larger than what Pathfinder has managed, much less unseat D&D as king until the game literally ceases to exist. D&D has dominated the market for far too long. Pathfinder 2e is a fantastic system and the published material is great, but people refuse to give it a chance because "it's not D&D." There are also a lot of people, like myself, that would really enjoy Pathfinder (or something else), but don't have the desire to learn an entirely new system, buy a bunch of new books, and put together a new group for a slightly more enjoyable/different game. It's just not worth it. A lot of people are heavily invested in D&D and that's a big part of the games continued dominance.

All that said - 5e is too simplistic for me, but I stick to it because it's very easy to find players. However, I've added a lot of additional layers to my own game. Primarily stuff that 5e has completely ignored or only briefly touches on. It's an iterative process as I'm constantly adding new things, refining older things, and removing stuff that looked great in theory, but didn't work well in practice.

Grabbit Allworth said:

All that said - 5e is too simplistic for me, but I stick to it because it's very easy to find players. However, I've added a lot of additional layers to my own game.

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Like what? I find 5e (minus the newer, ridiculous stuff) is great for beginners/kids, but not crunchy enough for more advanced and/or older players. That's one of the reasons I started building my own system. I'm curious to know what layers you've built and how they would coincide with the layers I've built into my system.

Arden said:

Like what? I find 5e (minus the newer, ridiculous stuff) is great for beginners/kids, but not crunchy enough for more advanced and/or older players. That's one of the reasons I started building my own system. I'm curious to know what layers you've built and how they would coincide with the layers I've built into my system.

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To be completely transparent, very few of the mechanics are entirely my own. I have A LOT of D&D content that I've poured over to take the elements that I like, tweak, and put them together in one document.

Some examples are:

1. Greatly expanded the skill system to include additional tiers above proficient for all characters and skills (Expert and Master) along with Sub-Skills which are basically specializations. E.g. Pick Pocket is a sub-skill of Sleight of Hand. I don't have a master list of sub-skills. I allow the players to choose them as part of character creation to really help them flesh out their character. It gives them an opportunity to pin down what they're really good at. The system is hit/miss. Some players are lazy or morons and it does nothing for them. Others are creative and inspired and it's a meaningful addition.
2. Crafting. Far too many details to post.
3. Gathering and harvesting resources from the world and monsters. Same as #2.
4. Fame/Infamy system.
5. Upgrade paths for normal weapons and armor (via properties). RAW, you buy your weapons/armor at character creation and after that it's magic items or bust.
6. Stacking Advantage/Disadvantage system. You never get more than two dice either way, but each additional source count as +/- 1 (+/- 3 max) and counteract each other at a 1 for 1 ratio.
7. Running businesses, kingdoms, settlements, etc.
8. Pages after page of smaller but impactful changes like all weapons and armor have a minimum STR requirement, 2 levels of Exhaustion when you're taken to 0 hp, re-vamped rest system, etc.

Players that join my game get a 65 page pdf of my house rules. It continues to grow as I test. Some things haven't worked and some rules are voted on by the group because certain things like gear maintenance, lingering injuries, etc. are loved by some and hated by others.

I exclusively play on FG now, but I had an extremely difficult time transitioning from tabletop to online. I honestly don't know why (apart from Fantasy Grounds having a pretty steep learning curve), but everything just felt very foreign and I underestimated how much I needed to non-verbal feedback I got from players. It took me several months to get my feet under me, but things run really well now.

Something else that I've recently done is implement skills, abilities, and magic items (such as tattoos) that use the character's Hit Dice as a resource to power them. For tattoos specifically, the art functions as the focus that enables the effect, but they have to provide the power source themselves. It's not revolutionary and I'm absolutely positive someone else has done it, but Hit Dice RAW are boring and I'd honestly prefer my players use them for something other than healing.

For example - A player gets a magical tattoo of a pair of crossed arrows. As an action, the character can use 3 hit dice to summon a single +1 arrow of radiant power that deals 2d8+ a number of d8+2 equal to their proficiency bonus in radiant damage. After taking the damage, the target must also make a DC 12 + prof bonus Con Save or be blinded until the end of their next turn. In its least powerful form it's 4d8+3 with a DC 14 save and maxes out at 8d8+13 with a DC 18 save. It might be slightly underpowered at the top end, but it's pretty balanced in tiers 1-3.

I really like giving my players options by making systems that already exist more robust.

Grabbit Allworth said:

Something else that I've recently done is implement skills, abilities, and magic items (such as tattoos) that use the character's Hit Dice as a resource to power them. For tattoos specifically, the art functions as the focus that enables the effect, but they have to provide the power source themselves. It's not revolutionary and I'm absolutely positive someone else has done it, but Hit Dice RAW are boring and I'd honestly prefer my players use them for something other than healing.

For example - A player gets a magical tattoo of a pair of crossed arrows. As an action, the character can 3 hit dice to summon a single +1 arrow of radiant power that deals 2d8+ a number of d8+2 equal to their proficiency bonus in radiant damage. After taking the damage, the target must make a DC 12 + prof bonus Con Save or be blinded until the end of their next turn. In its least powerful form it's 4d8+3 with a DC 14 save and maxes out at 8d8+13 with a DC 18 save. It might be slightly underpowered at the top end, but it's pretty balanced in tiers 1-3.

I really like giving my players options by making systems that already exist more robust.

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Good info- thanks for the details.

Don't be a tease, show us that 65 page pdf, who knows what cool shit is in there!

My son's are getting into d&d I haven't played in ages- about 17 years -but we have these unpainted figures still in their boxes... will post the pictures in a few

We have dragon magazine from about issue 70thru 200 and about 10 more large ral partha dragons and a bunch of smaller figure still in their packaging all from ~1986-1995ish

I don't know about the rest of it, but those Shadowrun dragons are going to be worth a fortune. I've been a shadowrun geek since 2nd edition and I had no clue there were miniatures made for the game back then.