The Elder Scrolls Online

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,023
2,101
Its got nothing to do with eq you idiot. It has everything to do with boring ass solo quest grind. Its the most idiotic thing to be ever added toMULTIPLAYERRPG.
So group up with someone and do them? It doesn't penalize you and actually seems to make things quicker imo. Forced grouping isn't the answer either.

Btw just learned this is 4 man group size, ugh that's going to suck if you go dps and trying to LFG.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Especially since tanking looks like the most boring way possible to play the game. Oh boy, shit for mana and sta regen, with ability slots full of active mitigation and taunts? Sign me the fuck up.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
Wanting a company to open up communications is hardly apples and oranges regardless of intention. Being in both the Landmark alpha and TESO internal testing I can assure you there is next to zero dev communication from one of them and I am not talking about dev to public communication. I'm talking about interacting with your testers.

I'm planning to play TESO for the AvA solely and only because my guild is playing but the PvE in the game for me was bland and downright boring. Sadly, gaining progression through AvA is also in a sad state but I'm hopeful that gets tweaked by launch.
Fair enough.

The PVE is standard fare, and I'm a proponent of complete open sandbox, but I've enjoyed it since it plays well for what it is when it isn't bugging out.

I'm not sure what you are looking for from the TESO guys here, since their goal isn't design, but fixing stuff. They seem to have a lot of work left, for sure.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
840
284
Fair enough.

The PVE is standard fare, and I'm a proponent of complete open sandbox, but I've enjoyed it since it plays well for what it is when it isn't bugging out.

I'm not sure what you are looking for from the TESO guys here, since their goal isn't design, but fixing stuff. They seem to have a lot of work left, for sure.
What some of us want is relatively moot at this point considering some of the core mechanics would need to change and it's too close to launch. Most of the issues that were brought up during early testing fell on deaf dev ears. Some of the issues have been addressed but it wasn't because of the devs. The modding community has picked up the slack in those regards.

Personally what I want?

Part of the allure of Skyrim and other Elder Scrolls games was the sheer freedom given to players. In order to do that in the MMO you need to give your players more options. Players having to do most of the quests in an area in order to progress is not allowing much freedom. Allow players to gain progression by gathering, killing players in AvA, mob grinding, etc. Tighten up the combat response, animations, and feedback. Finally, drop the subscription.

That's just a few things I would like to see them change
 

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,312
9,419
I dont know ~ i played it again and forced myself to go further. This is just one of those MMO's, like SW:TOR, that I want to do well and enjoy... but its just not happening.
frown.png
 

Devnull_sl

shitlord
94
0
So group up with someone and do them? It doesn't penalize you and actually seems to make things quicker imo. Forced grouping isn't the answer either.

Btw just learned this is 4 man group size, ugh that's going to suck if you go dps and trying to LFG.
I believe that forced grouping IS the answer. Solo questing is a serious detriment to recent MMOs. Between the extremely active gameplay and the ability to solo your way to level cap you end up with mechanics that are inherently antisocial, creating this bastardized genre of 5000 player games that have less player interaction than a coop diablo game. If you want to group in a quest focused game you have to be in sync with each other on quests, you have to find players that aren't playing the game like a single player rpg, you have to fragment the gameplay into meaningless public quests and instanced dungeons, you have to homogenize class design so that everyone is self sufficient and can dps and you have to remove any spells or mechanics from your game that allow players to interact with each other in any way.

Other than accessibility to more types of players ($$$), what is the point of allowing soloing in an MMO? So that you can play a bad pseudo single player game where you see other players running around instead of one of the many great actual single player games? So you can solo to level cap and THEN group? In that case, leveling is admittedly busy work that you're suffering through to get to the grouping end game. Easy soloing to level cap is one of the major reasons why MMOs have largely meaningless leveling experiences and all the 'good' content is loaded into end game. Why not build a game where it's the style of gameplay that you find at level cap right from the start? In TESO's case, something as simple the Cryodiil style gameplay starting immediately at level 1 and being the main play style would be a huge improvement. Hell, even the anchor public quests are so hidden and understated that no one in my group even realized they existed until around 4-6 hours into the game.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Its got nothing to do with eq you idiot. It has everything to do with boring ass solo quest grind. Its the most idiotic thing to be ever added toMULTIPLAYERRPG.
So what do you actually want in a MMO?

As far as I can tell there are no in betweens when it comes to MMOs. You either go the McQuaid/EQ1 route and force everyone to group for everything or you go the WoW/WoW-clone route of supporting both solo questing as well as tougher content that requires a group. I have played numerous MMOs since EQ1 and I am personally not aware of any of them that copied the EQ1 design of forced grouping. Almost all of them fully cater to the solo player.
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
I tried playing a Bow using sorcerer wearing heavy armor to get away from the default class archetypes we normally see and while it worked I didn't feel anything spectacular during my play. Oh lock! I have one normal attack and a poison bow attack now? Whoope. Now a magical curse which I never have any reason to use for anything..... My worthless pet attacks approximately 50% of the time and usually only after the totally underwhelming mob I just faced is about to die. I never felt in danger, never felt a challenge, never felt any need to use that block skill action and the only ultra rare sense of excitement I ever felt was finding a skyshard.

Playing an Asura Engineer in the early levels of Guild Wars 2 was so much more exciting and aesthetically beautiful then this. All I can hope is that there is some amazing mid-late game or I doubt I'll ever buy this.


I don't hate the game. Worse. I just didn't find anything in it compelling.
 

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,674
1,060
I guess answered would be mostly theorycraft at this stage since endgame doesn't exist/isn't accessible yet but how will resource management work at end game?

Most trees dont have little to no access to stam/mana restore (especially heavy armour users). Based on my very limited experience to level 4, long fights (like bosses/pvp) would be mostly basic attacks since you can blow your whole mana/stam pool in like 3 seconds.

Also there's no real cap on the number of skills/skillpoints you can get right? You can keep learning them forever until you've got every passive and every active, only limited by your 5+1 ability slots?
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,424
37,545
So what do you actually want in a MMO?

As far as I can tell there are no in betweens when it comes to MMOs. You either go the McQuaid/EQ1 route and force everyone to group for everything or you go the WoW/WoW-clone route of supporting both solo questing as well as tougher content that requires a group. I have played numerous MMOs since EQ1 and I am personally not aware of any of them that copied the EQ1 design of forced grouping. Almost all of them fully cater to the solo player.
But that's exactly what Im arguing against. This is just another stale solo quest grind. And a bland one at that. Why? Because most of us here have been through this shit countless times in those games you described. In wow it was fresh, new, exciting. Now? 10 yrs later and 20 games since, its old stale and played out.

How bout putting in mechanisms that get people to play together? I played for roughly 10 hours, up to lv 11 and I did not see a single thing that got people to play together. Even did 2 noob social dungeons where everyone just ran around solo in. I got more interaction out of NPCs than I did from other players and this is just wrong in a MMO, sorry bro.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
I dont know ~ i played it again and forced myself to go further. This is just one of those MMO's, like SW:TOR, that I want to do well and enjoy... but its just not happening.
frown.png
Personal tastes, I guess. This plays very ES like, but with a lot of traditional MMO functionality layered. I'm not forcing myself to play, as I like the design and classes. The only thing I'm not really a fan of is the combat, which is kind of meh. That's where I really miss Rift and WOW. Outside of that, those games are Zzzz.

You still sub to WOW, yeah? Every three months I play a few days out of my free week and for the life of me can't understand how anyone can keep playing WOW, as it bores me to tears, but to each their own.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
But that's exactly what Im arguing against. This is just another stale solo quest grind. And a bland one at that. Why? Because most of us here have been through this shit countless times in those games you described. In wow it was fresh, new, exciting. Now? 10 yrs later and 20 games since, its old stale and played out.

How bout putting in mechanisms that get people to play together? I played for roughly 10 hours, up to lv 11 and I did not see a single thing that got people to play together. Even did 2 noob social dungeons where everyone just ran around solo in. I got more interaction out of NPCs than I did from other players and this is just wrong in a MMO, sorry bro.
What other grouping mechanisms do you expect to see in a MMO besides group dungeons (basic and elite level), raids and PVP?
 

rhinohelix

Dental Dammer
<Gold Donor>
2,906
4,693
I believe that forced grouping IS the answer. Solo questing is a serious detriment to recent MMOs. Between the extremely active gameplay and the ability to solo your way to level cap you end up with mechanics that are inherently antisocial, creating this bastardized genre of 5000 player games that have less player interaction than a coop diablo game. If you want to group in a quest focused game you have to be in sync with each other on quests, you have to find players that aren't playing the game like a single player rpg, you have to fragment the gameplay into meaningless public quests and instanced dungeons, you have to homogenize class design so that everyone is self sufficient and can dps and you have to remove any spells or mechanics from your game that allow players to interact with each other in any way.

Other than accessibility to more types of players ($$$), what is the point of allowing soloing in an MMO? So that you can play a bad pseudo single player game where you see other players running around instead of one of the many great actual single player games? So you can solo to level cap and THEN group? In that case, leveling is admittedly busy work that you're suffering through to get to the grouping end game. Easy soloing to level cap is one of the major reasons why MMOs have largely meaningless leveling experiences and all the 'good' content is loaded into end game. Why not build a game where it's the style of gameplay that you find at level cap right from the start? In TESO's case, something as simple the Cryodiil style gameplay starting immediately at level 1 and being the main play style would be a huge improvement. Hell, even the anchor public quests are so hidden and understated that no one in my group even realized they existed until around 4-6 hours into the game.
I will echo this again: ESO's first 3 or 4 levels were terrible the first time through. Now that I know what I am doing, they may be less so but its anti-Tortage: The game improves markedly and regularly as you unlock content by progressing through the story.

So much wrong with the rest of your post, though. Forced grouping is complete and total BS. That is just content gating. I solo'ed, duo'ed, and trio'ed enough in EQ to prove that even there, it wasn't what rosy-glasses make it out to be. I "grouped" a fair amount during my time with ESO so far, much like I did in GW2, TSW, etc: finding people close by who were after the same thing, wanting to help out, etc. Open-grouping to my mind is far superior for the vast majority of content.

The dirty little secret about "forced grouping" in those games of glorious yesteryear wasn't that it was done to make the experience "social" or any other clap-trap: It was done to mimic the way D&D convention as well as allow for the content to be hard enough that was slow to tear through. Just like the whole slow mana regen, it was really to allow them to collect as many $9.99 monthly subs as they could before you exhausted the content. What many people remember about "community" comes from the slow combat speed, long downtime/ relative lack of player UI interaction, and limited and stable server populations. A lot of that you can't bring back no matter what you do.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,485
73,569
The dirty little secret about "forced grouping" in those games of glorious yesteryear wasn't that it was done to make the experience "social" or any other clap-trap: It was done to mimic the way D&D convention as well as allow for the content to be hard enough that was slow to tear through. Just like the whole slow mana regen, it was really to allow them to collect as many $9.99 monthly subs as they could before you exhausted the content. What many people remember about "community" comes from the slow combat speed, long downtime/ relative lack of player UI interaction, and limited and stable server populations. A lot of that you can't bring back no matter what you do.
While it's true that slow combat speed, long downtime/ relative lack of player UI interaction, and limited and stable server populations contributed to player interaction, are you really arguing that making content hard enough to require players to form groups of 4+ people won't increase player socialization?
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
While it's true that slow combat speed, long downtime/ relative lack of player UI interaction, and limited and stable server populations contributed to player interaction, are you really arguing that making content hard enough to require players to form groups of 4+ people won't increase player socialization?
Forcing players to group in order to advance thru the PVE content would obviously increase player socialization, but is that how the large majority of paying customers want their MMOs to be designed? A LOT of EQ1 players flocked to WoW because they were fed up with forced grouping, myself being one of them.