The Elder Scrolls Online

Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl said:

Has anyone seen content over level 17+ now the NDA is gone? Let alone semi end game stuff etc.

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Just found this - lots of info:ESO: Isarii's Comprehensive Review

Course, I'm sure anyone with anything positive is just a shill...

So like every Zerg vs Zerg game ever I'll assume that being melee is for suckers. Especially with death grip being so iffy. And lag never works out well for melee.

Oh good its down? No hiding now UT, post all your proof , since you can't use the "I might be banned" excuse any more.

Cinge_sl said:

Oh good its down? No hiding now UT, post all your proof , since you can't use the "I might be banned" excuse any more.

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Given the absolute fantasyland bullshit he was posting in the BF4 thread that finally decided me to ignore him, you might be in for a long wait.

Gecko_sl said:

I try hard to be casual, and I fail. My MMO OCD to win and get shinies takes over....I gotta get in and get that pre nerf guise of the deceiver or manastone, you know....

I have zero issues casually playing single player or coop games, but for some reasons MMOs affect me in that way. Maybe this one will be different.

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Amen man. I try to play casually, thinking its ok I will just do a few hours on the weekend and then wait till the next weekend. Yet there I am spending 10 hours on a Saturday playing or pushing off my work on release day to try to get in and do as much as I can.

I think he's scouring the message boards so he can copy/paste something.

Utnayan_sl said:

So they changed the NDA, and that automatically makes this glaring piece of shit a good game? All those problems discussed don't magically vanish. I'm glad thy changed it. Now all you shills can't hide behind it any longer.

Pyksel, go nuts. They won't believe a word I say anyway.

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Already did. Unless you have a group of friends and plan to participate in AvA I don't think it's worth a sub. Longevity is clearly up in the air so best advice if you're on the fence is pick it up for $45 so you get the preorder bonuses plus the free month and make your decisions off that. Fun is subjective so it doesn't really matter what you or I say, it's going to boil down to what each individual enjoys.

Personally, we don't plan to play it more than about 3 months but if we do then I suppose that's a bonus.

Kreugen_sl said:

So like every Zerg vs Zerg game ever I'll assume that being melee is for suckers. Especially with death grip being so iffy. And lag never works out well for melee.

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yeah i played cyrodil at level 12 for 3 hours last stress test and melee was pretty much useless. i don't really understand quaid saying how you can get 50-100 hours of PVP in cyrodil, unless the game is drastically different at 50 you spend 90% of your time running from keep to keep in cyro, and capping a keep is insanely fast - like under a minute with a medium size zerg. Since rez'ing anyone isn't that easy and you can't respawn at a keep being attacked, sure a small team can wipe out a large team but with no culling and range spells being so powerful good luck with that.

the only real difference I felt between gw2 and cyrodil is that there was no culling, there was a ton of lag though but maybe they can fix that. I never played DAOC but friends who did said the sieging part was the most boring part of PVP, the best part was the open ground PVP combat and that doesn't seem to be as strong here, especially since there is no world PVP outside cyrodil. If campaigns also last 90 days like they are supposed to, its gonna be pretty terrible as one guild or faction or server dominates and the other side just stops playing for 90 days, like we saw with GW2.

Blackwulf_sl said:

Just found this - lots of info:ESO: Isarii's Comprehensive Review

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Here's a snippet I liked

50+/++ Content - After completing the main quest, players can also venture into 50+ content, a challenging upscaled version of the other alliances? zones, gaining veteran ranks, gear, and skill points from quest rewards and skyshards. Upon reaching 50+, I was shocked to discover that it was a significant step up in difficulty from the normal leveling content ? shocked and thrilled. If you miss a block in 50+, you are probably going to die, and because of that, it?s a whole lot of fun. There are currently six veteran dungeons (best equated with heroics) in game, progressing in difficulty in the same order they do in regular content. The first three veteran dungeons are scaled for VR5, with the second three being scaled for VR10 ? the current VR level cap; presumably, the adventure zone will be scaled for VR10 as well, but reward players with increased quality gear. I couldn?t be happier with the current implementation of veteran content, and really hope that we won?t see it nerfed to accommodate less skilled players.

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jooka_sl said:

No go right ahead UT, bash the game a lot more now, I mean you were in the closed beta right? Here is your big chance to post away free of any hiding from retribution and getting kicked out of the beta, right?

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He's busy scouring message boards for negative details so he can post them and say they are his impressions.

pyksel_sl said:

Already did. Unless you have a group of friends and plan to participate in AvA I don't think it's worth a sub. Longevity is clearly up in the air so best advice if you're on the fence is pick it up for $45 so you get the preorder bonuses plus the free month and make your decisions off that. Fun is subjective so it doesn't really matter what you or I say, it's going to boil down to what each individual enjoys.

Personally, we don't plan to play it more than about 3 months but if we do then I suppose that's a bonus.

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Psykel, how high did you make it in beta, mate? How did the group dungeons play out compared to the videos?

I can easily see getting three months from this, especially if they can fix a majority of the bugs. The combat is far better than Skyrim.

I'd guess groups will be fairly easy to get, but good groups might be tougher. Is the game complex enough to really need a static setup for leveling PVE? I'm not sure if I want to join a guild or just screw around solo for a bit. I had zero issues in beta weekend finding people to play with, and that was just in the newblet limited areas, mostly.

I have not looked at the NDA drop stuff, so hopefully its across the board. I have been in the closed beta for a few months and I honestly do not think I will pick up the game. Some, if not most of my reasons will seem trivial, but we all need to decide what we want to do somehow. That said, I think the game is good, but it depends what you are looking for. For me, it was not what I was looking for. So, here are a few of my problems with the game, all of which are mentioned on the private forums by other testers and seem to have gone unanswered:

1. I hate quickslots. This feature is great for a single player game, but in an MMO it just felt cumbersome, especially for PvP. I would prefer 3 more slots or even the ability to keybind individual quickslots.
2. Not being able to darken the area behind your text window and keep your text window always up. Unfortunately, this is a deal breaker for me. My eyes have a focus issue and not being able to darken chat makes it hard for me to read.
3. Phasing is a drag. Too often friends were on a different step in a quest and unable to help me. My mobs would just be invisible to them and or we would be able to be near each other and not see each other. This made grouping pretty annoying.
4. Casters seemed very powerful when compared to melee
5. too much voice acting. Sometimes I would spend what felt like 5 minutes+ just going through the dialog options for a single quest (some interesting and some so boring I wanted to pull my hair out). Sometimes you have heard enough and decide to just skip through them, only to realize that certain choices might change what you are supposed to do and you and your group members now have completely different objectives.
6. Even though I love Skyrim, I felt this mmos combat felt awkward and I never really got used to it
7. Animations still need work....jumping and swimming /sigh ...so bad
8. The the game is pretty much 90% soloable (exceptions wvw and dungeons mostly) unless you cannot play your character
9. WvW makes the same mistakes as GW2 with porting, no collision detection, and no real accomplishments (things are flipped too fast). Sadly the sieges in ESO were even faster than GW2 and taking a keep was ridiculously simple/fast. Felt GW2 had a lot more interaction in this area.
10. Do not like the need for 50+ and 50++ system to stay competitive with shards or the fact that you are playing in other factions lands but seeing no one but people who originally started in your faction.
11. Dislike that factions can have all the same races now, but still cannot chat in game.

In the end I felt that just playing Skyrim (I don't need to pay $15 to see people I have no use in interacting with) and GW2 WvW gives me just as good of an experience as Eso, without a sub. Its a good game and I hope it does well, but not a game for me. Even if liked, I cannot see someone getting more than a few months of enjoyment out of this game, but if you do awesome. That said, for the box price (even though I hate the pre order deal and it makes me worry about the cash shop) its a really good deal for the content you get.

To you guys that have been playing/commenting a lot in the forum, care to address each of the subheadings in this article (was posted earlier as well). I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here but this appears to be primarily positive.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/02/es...ensive-review/

Fubarbox_sl said:

I have not looked at the NDA drop stuff, so hopefully its across the board. I have been in the closed beta for a few months and I honestly do not think I will pick up the game. Some, if not most of my reasons will seem trivial, but we all need to decide what we want to do somehow. That said, I think the game is good, but it depends what you are looking for. For me, it was not what I was looking for. So, here are a few of my problems with the game, all of which are mentioned on the private forums by other testers and seem to have gone unanswered:

1. I hate quickslots. This feature is great for a single player game, but in an MMO it just felt cumbersome, especially for PvP. I would prefer 3 more slots or even the ability to keybind individual quickslots.
2. Not being able to darken the area behind your text window and keep your text window always up. Unfortunately, this is a deal breaker for me. My eyes have a focus issue and not being able to darken chat makes it hard for me to read.
3. Phasing is a drag. Too often friends were on a different step in a quest and unable to help me. My mobs would just be invisible to them and or we would be able to be near each other and not see each other. This made grouping pretty annoying.
4. Casters seemed very powerful when compared to melee
5. too much voice acting. Sometimes I would spend what felt like 5 minutes+ just going through the dialog options for a single quest (some interesting and some so boring I wanted to pull my hair out). Sometimes you have heard enough and decide to just skip through them, only to realize that certain choices might change what you are supposed to do and you and your group members now have completely different objectives.
6. Even though I love Skyrim, I felt this mmos combat felt awkward and I never really got used to it
7. Animations still need work....jumping and swimming /sigh ...so bad
8. The the game is pretty much 90% soloable (exceptions wvw and dungeons mostly) unless you cannot play your character
9. WvW makes the same mistakes as GW2 with porting, no collision detection, and no real accomplishments (things are flipped too fast). Sadly the siges in ESO were even faster than GW2 and taking a keep was ridiculously simple/fast. Felt GW2 had a lot more interaction in this area.
10. Do not like the need for 50+ and 50++ system to stay competitive with shards or the fact that you are playing in other factions lands but seeing no one but people who originally started in your faction.


In the end I felt that just playing Skyrim (I don't need to pay $15 to see people I have no use in interacting with) and GW2 WvW gives me just as good of an experience as Eso, without a sub. Its a good game and I hope it does well, but not a game for me. Even if liked, I cannot see someone getting more than a few nmonths of enjoyment out of this game, but if you do awesome. That said, for the box price (even though I hate the pre order deal and it makes me worry about the cash shop) its a really good deal for the content you get.

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5 & 9 could be deal breakers for me. I was actually on the fence of giving this a try but that's just too annoying for me. If I get a MMO itch, I may have to go back to FFXIV. Wish EQClassic would release.

Fubarbox_sl said:

I have not looked at the NDA drop stuff, so hopefully its across the board. I have been in the closed beta for a few months and I honestly do not think I will pick up the game. Some, if not most of my reasons will seem trivial, but we all need to decide what we want to do somehow. That said, I think the game is good, but it depends what you are looking for. For me, it was not what I was looking for. So, here are a few of my problems with the game, all of which are mentioned on the private forums by other testers and seem to have gone unanswered:

1. I hate quickslots. This feature is great for a single player game, but in an MMO it just felt cumbersome, especially for PvP. I would prefer 3 more slots or even the ability to keybind individual quickslots.
2. Not being able to darken the area behind your text window and keep your text window always up. Unfortunately, this is a deal breaker for me. My eyes have a focus issue and not being able to darken chat makes it hard for me to read.
3. Phasing is a drag. Too often friends were on a different step in a quest and unable to help me. My mobs would just be invisible to them and or we would be able to be near each other and not see each other. This made grouping pretty annoying.
4. Casters seemed very powerful when compared to melee
5. too much voice acting. Sometimes I would spend what felt like 5 minutes+ just going through the dialog options for a single quest (some interesting and some so boring I wanted to pull my hair out). Sometimes you have heard enough and decide to just skip through them, only to realize that certain choices might change what you are supposed to do and you and your group members now have completely different objectives.
6. Even though I love Skyrim, I felt this mmos combat felt awkward and I never really got used to it
7. Animations still need work....jumping and swimming /sigh ...so bad
8. The the game is pretty much 90% soloable (exceptions wvw and dungeons mostly) unless you cannot play your character
9. WvW makes the same mistakes as GW2 with porting, no collision detection, and no real accomplishments (things are flipped too fast). Sadly the siges in ESO were even faster than GW2 and taking a keep was ridiculously simple/fast. Felt GW2 had a lot more interaction in this area.
10. Do not like the need for 50+ and 50++ system to stay competitive with shards or the fact that you are playing in other factions lands but seeing no one but people who originally started in your faction.


In the end I felt that just playing Skyrim (I don't need to pay $15 to see people I have no use in interacting with) and GW2 WvW gives me just as good of an experience as Eso, without a sub. Its a good game and I hope it does well, but not a game for me. Even if liked, I cannot see someone getting more than a few nmonths of enjoyment out of this game, but if you do awesome. That said, for the box price (even though I hate the pre order deal and it makes me worry about the cash shop) its a really good deal for the content you get.

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Its hard to find fault with anything you posted, I agree with them all, and this is basically a multiplayer skyrim console version as well.

So I did try it on a weekend. Been invited to the last two or three (I didn't sign up until then I think).

I have watched several youtube videos that did this as well, hence I referenced them instead of myself to somewhat avoid NDA stuff in terms of the bow questions.

1) The patcher is the worst in the history of mmos. No kidding. EQ 1999 was miles ahead of it, and EQ:Landmark makes the TESO launcher look so bad that someone from SOE should get raises and the ones in TESO should be worried about their jobs. I had tons of issues trying to install it the first time (low disk space, and it requires roughly 60 gigs to install, not 30, as it downloads apparently the entire 30 gigs to then do an install from that). It downloaded 30 gigs, didn't have space to install it.... so... had to download 30 gigs again, because of course it didn't save the files it had downloaded once it gave the error message.

But the real problems came last time when patching up an already installed game. It downloads the entire patch in chunks, and patches it over the entire thing. 100 mb download, which then is patched over 7 gigs. 200 mb more patched over 8 gigs. 150 mb more over 11 gigs..... Most nonsensical patching I have ever experienced. This has no impact on the actual game, but holy o shit. This was what I wanted to post about immediately when I got the game, before I even got to play it, because that thing is horrible and made me want to rant.

2) The Bow thing I mentioned earlier. I don't understand targeting in this game. UTs post of the % based hits on what you are targeting are dead on. He did not lie about that explanation when I asked about how targeting worked. It is broken. Only way I can describe it is that they made the game with tab targeting in mind, but somewhere down the line decided to go action combat, but just put that system over the old one. It just felt weird, and very annoying at times. Especially when you had the UT example of - Aim at Mob A standing still. Suddenly Mob B sees you and attacks you. You turn towards Mob B and fire, and you WILL hit Mob A and get two mobs attacking you. I did experience exactly that, so that was a spot on explanation.

3) I played first person, but in groups, you will be a liability in that mode. Like Dmitry mentioned in terms of healing. You can't be effective with it. It is a gimmic thing they added later, not made around it. Only responding to critics saying that an Elder Scrolls game should have it. But when it is not viable, it is not implemented right. Plus side is that you don't see as much of your own horrible animations when you are in first person. Because if you are expecting fluidity of joints, you'll be disappointed.

4) So many broken quests. People standing all over trying to get quests. One was permanently broken (A lady called Melanie or something that never spawned once). Others I managed to get after a while, as they seemed to reset after the server went down. I did see them break again, but if you were quick after the server went down, you could do it before it broke. I am guessing they broke because too many tried to activate them at once. Once the quest broke, it broke the quest chain, so the place I was, was filled with people in chat asking "where do I go, I have no quests because I am stuck at story progression in quest X".

5) It is Elder Scrolls lite. If you go into it expecting Elder Scrolls, you won't get it unless you have very low standards. From the graphics, animations, combat, blocked content (blocked content in a elder scrolls game is a big no no), there are just too many things that makes it seem as the team behind this game has never really played Elder Scrolls, just heard what it is about. Things are there, just.... slightly worse than a Vanilla elder scrolls game in every turn. If you compare it to a normal mmo, you can see the Elder Scrolls features like more things to loot and an ability to use first person with a field of view that is not totally messed up, but compared to an actual Elder Scrolls game, there has been a lot of compromises/omissions.

6) Regarding itemization, I did not play it enough to really complain about it. But it seemed to be almost EQ 99. Upgrades few and far between initially and the looks of them, at least up to level 10 was fairly similar on all things I put on, from armor to weapons. Only graphical difference I think I saw in the 4 or 5 bows upgrades I got/made, were the elemental graphics when I pulled it out. IE: If it is enchanted with fire, the bow is lit on fire briefly when you pull it out. Model was always the same though, but at such a low level, I can't really complain about it.

I will get it though, like I have every large mmo since EQ, but I buy it knowing it will be a somewhat multiplayer single player experience. Like other games, I fully expect to cancel my sub after a month or two if not even by the end of the first month depending on how much I play. And that the game will go F2P is the most obvious thing in the world. This game is in no way shape or form good enough to compete with other F2P games long term while on a sub model. But from what I have seen, unless the game utterly breaks past the teens, it will be good enough to put 50+ hours into it, which is worth the 60 dollar box cost when compared to a single player game. I am not sure I will bother getting it until a few weeks after launch though. I expect this game to be epic in terms of problems when it comes to the early access / initial launch window.

Gecko_sl said:

Psykel, how high did you make it in beta, mate? How did the group dungeons play out compared to the videos?

I can easily see getting three months from this, especially if they can fix a majority of the bugs. The combat is far better than Skyrim.

I'd guess groups will be fairly easy to get, but good groups might be tougher. Is the game complex enough to really need a static setup for leveling PVE? I'm not sure if I want to join a guild or just screw around solo for a bit. I had zero issues in beta weekend finding people to play with, and that was just in the newblet limited areas, mostly.

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VR6 on the DC side and like 25/26 on the AD side.

The VR dungeons are no joke and you'll definitely want some semblance of a trinity when running them.

I'm hesitant to say the combat is better than Skyrim but I will attest that it's easier to manage in TESO. There are certainly more MMO influences on the combat which one should expect. Things such as weapon specific abilities versus mainly passive based skills. My issue with it wasnt related to the similarities of it compared to Skyrim, it's related to the responsiveness and feedback which it definitely needs work on. I think the problem is they needed to slow combat down a bit but when you intend for it to be action based it can feel a bit too goverend and as some have stated, "floaty".

Groups makeup isn't entirely required for straight pve leveling. It's the dungeons, anchors, world bosses, Cyrodiil, Adventure Zones, etc. that you'll want groups for. I'm not sure how you define static setup though because in all fairness the class system is ridiculously flexible. You'll definitely want your typical trinity as I mentioned before but I've seen some class compositions that I was skeptical of but performed very well. Things such as Sorc Tanks, Nightblade Healers, and probably one of the most devastating classes in Cyrodiil was a destruction staff focused Dragonknight.

If you enjoyed it in beta then pick it up and get your gaming in while it's around and the population is good.

This is how I could best describe some of my observations on Reddit.

re: Targetting-

The determination of whether or not you "hit" your opponent occurs when the attack animation begins instead of when contact with the weapon should occur. It's a result of the soft-lock system. Damage calculation occurs at the same time (when the attack animation begins) for melee attacks, but for ranged attacks it occurs when the projectile hits.

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I don't think it's "broken," just inherently flawed to account for latency and porting to consoles.


re: First-person perspective-

I don't think first person not feeling great has anything to do with how long it was or was not a part of the game's development. I think first person is just bad for video games that have combat in them. Melee combat and magic usage in the Elder Scrolls series is rubbish, and part of the reason for that is trying to do it in first person perspective. TESO at least breaks from the Elder Scrolls heritage of having a poor magic usage system.

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The only thing the single-player ES games have over TESO in terms of combat is the archery mechanics IMO.