The Elder Scrolls Online

Denaut_sl said:

Yay, engine discussion!

Generally MMO engines aren't one engine, but essentially 3; Client, Server, and Database (simplifying here). Each piece is as critical as the other. Being complex is generally what causes them to have many more problems than most games.

If you are making, say, an FPS you really only have to worry about the client (and the client's network code). You have one chance to choose incorrectly, and it is usually pretty apparent at an early stage. Just an example as there are many FPS engines out there and it is pretty hard to go wrong here.

For an MMO, each piece handles a separate part of the major responsibility of running the game, with each having completely different requirements. They then have to communicate with each other, sometimes with great latency.

The client and database are generally the easiest to figure out. There are plenty of good clients around with good tools. Unreal for example will give you a renderer, level editor, asset browser, animation controller, particle editor and so on. Databases are also well tested tech with various pros and cons that are fairly well known, giving you a good shot at choosing the correct solution.

Where you usually run into problems though is the "Server" (I use the term loosely here). There is absolutely no established "engine" for an MMO game server in the same way you have Unreal. There are plenty of technologies that CAN run a server, but nothing that works fantastically out of the box. Since your game runs here, most of your game code lives in the space, and that game code needs to communicate constantly with itself, the client, and the database. All that communication makes things heinously complex. It is so complex that to this date there is no good "generic solution" because inevitably there critical functionality missing that you need for your new game.

What I am saying is, for most MMOs there is no "engine" to criticize, only the game itself and the people that built it.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Denaut again.

Draegan_sl said:

I'd like to buy you a beer.

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If you are ever in Europe let me know, I could talk about this kind of stuff for hours.

Fair warning, where I live the price of beer will make your wallet leap out of your pocket and run screaming.

Hey My Fellow Nerds.

I know this is not the Tortanic thread, However since your discussing game engines.

We all know Elder online is going to us the White Board for the Hero engine rofl.

Here is Link to new Gamebreaker Video posted it here, cause we Know Yugo is still Yugo, dont give fuck about elder scrolls spinning they just used it for Whiteboard, BS,BS.

Did The Hero Engine Kill SWTOR?: Monty's Minute Episode 18 (Video)

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game...#disqus_thread

Denaut_sl said:

If you are ever in Europe let me know, I could talk about this kind of stuff for hours.

Fair warning, where I live the price of beer will make your wallet leap out of your pocket and run screaming.

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That's without the cost of air plane ticket out of NYC.

AlekseiFL_sl said:

Hey My Fellow Nerds.

I know this is not the Tortanic thread, However since your discussing game engines.

We all know Elder online is going to us the White Board for the Hero engine rofl.

Here is Link to new Gamebreaker Video posted it here, cause we Know Yugo is still Yugo, dont give fuck about elder scrolls spinning they just used it for Whiteboard, BS,BS.

Did The Hero Engine Kill SWTOR?: Monty's Minute Episode 18 (Video)

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game...#disqus_thread

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Ok everyone can stop bitching about the Hero Engine shit. The fact they are using the Hero Engine has nothing to do with the quality of the game. It's what they do with it that counts.

Draegan_sl said:

Ok everyone can stop bitching about the Hero Engine shit. The fact they are using the Hero Engine has nothing to do with the quality of the game. It's what they do with it that counts.

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Whoa I thought shiting on the hero engine made you cool and stuff..

Only if you're a broken english wannabe lawyer that plays with his 4 wives and 6 derp kid's.

Draegan_sl said:

Ok everyone can stop bitching about the Hero Engine shit. The fact they are using the Hero Engine has nothing to do with the quality of the game. It's what they do with it that counts.

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I don't really understand your reasoning. It was stated over and over during the early days of SWTOR, by the devs, that the Hero engine had certain limitations that they could not over come. Namely, there would be NO largescale Light vs Dark battlefields, which was one of the key marketing points that was pushed/highlighted. Consequently, it was one of the bigger disappointments experienced by players with regard to SWTOR.

Even if you think it's all on the devs to overcome any software problems, you might agree that EQN using the same engine as PS2 is going to have a huge impact in terms of options the devs have.

Cthon_sl said:

I don't really understand your reasoning. It was stated over and over during the early days of SWTOR, by the devs, that the Hero engine had certain limitations that they could not over come. Namely, there would be NO largescale Light vs Dark battlefields, which was one of the key marketing points that was pushed/highlighted. Consequently, it was one of the bigger disappointments experienced by players with regard to SWTOR.

Even if you think it's all on the devs to overcome any software problems, you might agree that EQN using the same engine as PS2 is going to have a huge impact in terms of options the devs have.

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Sounds like a dev who is blaming someone (or something) else for his failures. As Denaut already explained so well, engine discussions in regards to mmo's are largely irrelevant. The use of the Hero engine doesn't matter, what they do with it does.

Hell, if the TESO devs did overcome that problem, well then piss on those SWTOR bastids and their arm chair tactics. I haven't been following TESO for long and I'm interested to see what they come up with. Anyone playing beta have some first impressions that they can post....

As far as I know, external beta has not begun yet. That's not to say that some kind of internal alpha (F&F essentially) with outside people hasn't started yet.

Ahh, yeah, paying more attention to the "beta" part of the TESO site, I guess they're just accepting signups. Damn them for being such teasing whores! Man, just finished watched a few of the older game play videos...this game looks like it could be fairly badass.

mkopec_sl said:

BTW, didnt TESO devs already state that they can have 200 peeps on the screen at the same time? Well if they are using the hero engine, I guess thery solved that problem, right?

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Color me skeptical, the only game I've seen reasonably approach this is Darkfall, with players moving like disjointed stick men and sharing all of 12 art assets between them. And that net-code was built from the ground up for large battles; it still didn't quite work out stability wise.

And Eve, but spaceships are way cheaper than humans and anthropomorphic furry animals.

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/zen...#disqus_thread

Full voice acting confirmed for The Elder Scrolls Online

Previous "Ask Us Anything" sessions for The Elder Scrolls Online have been, in this writer's opinion at least, rather lackluster, especially in terms of gameplay details.

This week's installment makes up for that in a big way, as the team at ZeniMax Online Studios reveals several juicy details about the game and its presentation.

Full voice acting. As if people weren't drawing enough comparisons between TESO and Star Wars: The Old Republic, now there's this. BTW, TESO's still not using the HERO Engine.

Automatically sorted inventory, similar to what's seen in Skyrim and Oblivion. Hallelujah. Why more MMOs don't take this tack, I'll never know. In addition to sorting based on type, like armor or weapon, more options will be available, such as sorting by value or when acquired.

Light-armor tanks. While ZeniMax says you'd rather use heavy armor in close-quarters fighting, the option is apparently there "to increase your health to the max and carefully choose your abilities" and create "a light armor character that would last a good, long time on the front lines."

Narrowly specialized characters. While the skill system would seem to reward hybridization, there should be plenty of options for people wanting to specialize along a single track, such as exclusively being a healer.

Equipping weapons. The Q&A confirms that a system will be in place similar to Skyrim's, where you can equip weapons, spells, and shields on a per-hand basis, and you'll also be able to easily switch between builds - something the single-player games have generally lacked.

Moral choices. While not as black-and-white as, say, choosing to represent the Light or Dark Side in SWTOR, there will be some "tough choices" your character will have to address which might range from having a minor effect on the story to having "lasting consequences."

So which of these features sound the most appealing to you? And what else would you like to see in the game?

Wonderful, another game where they think every shit errand deserves voice acting, thus driving development and bugfixing costs up. =\

Rezz_sl said:

Wonderful, another game where they think every shit errand deserves voice acting, thus driving development and bugfixing costs up. =\

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It comes with the Alpha and Beta hero engine pack.

Oh wait, they said their not useing the Hero engine.
Its just Whiteboard to place ideas, we all believe them can recall how Bioware founders said how the hero engine would allow them to get content in faster, next gen graphics etc rofl.

Rezz_sl said:

Wonderful, another game where they think every shit errand deserves voice acting, thus driving development and bugfixing costs up. =\

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No shit. I long thought SWTOR could have been a significantly better game even in the hands of the assholes that had it had they cut the voice acting down to just the class storylines and a few very key planet sequences (end of the planet quests or maybe a twist here and there) and maybe some instances/raids. They could have spent 1/10,000th of that money developing a nice looking terminal interface that was maybe somewhat like a quest bounty list and then made it a bit more like Vanilla WoW with a little more openness in how you progressed. Not a lot, just a little more.

Then they'd had like 200 million left to make end-game or dynamic war events or something worth playing.