The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
Pyksel
Rasterizing . . .
- 840
- 284
Agreed that there is no innovation but I also never suggested that there was. What I did suggest was that the method by which CU is going about doing things has the potential to set the stage for future development of games that we WANT to see succeed on a level much larger than just the 1-2 month disposable one. That's where I think we differ but imagine if Scott Hartsman's next project took to Kickstarter, would that be a day 1 back for you?
I think with such lofty expections we have it hard for any mmo to meet them. Then the hype machine kicks in and those lofty go to unattainable levels. I'm not one to nick pick design. But stablity, a fluid feel of the game I can't excuse. Other shit comes and goes through the buff nerf cycle. I can tell in the first few levels if the game is going to be ass . If I had to bet my trailer I would say this game is going to be ass but well still turn a profit and profit is what matters.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,866
- 6,822
There does need to be innovation in the mmo space but it will probably come from left field and be hardware driven. Much of game design is based on the limitations of the hardware involved. Mmo's are heavily PC based and PC's themselves have not innovated in years. They get faster with better graphics but the keyboard interface etc, is still the same. And PC use seems to have reached a plateau.
Smart phones, tablets and the other new devices coming out are the becoming the preferred place for many people to spend their time. The next "big thing" may very well be on one of those platforms. And because of the limitations of the hardware in these new devices, that game will necessarily be drastically different than what we have now.
Haha, Ravens fan?
Well the whole point of my post was that we wont see true innovation until everything else runs it's course. But your point is taken.
I would definitely not back a Hartsman project based just on name alone. For me to spend my money, he would need to provide at least proof of concept and more likely a small demo. It's the reason why I backed HEX at $500. I have a problem giving people money based on only promises and ideals.
Innovation will come from software. Proper development of dynamic environment and content deployment not based on hand crafted scripts and art assets. Maybe that needs better CPUs and network thoroughput though? I duno.
I just hate bad analogies, but being a Giants fan is a double burn!
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,319
- 12,099
So Grim1, I think our bane together is because we are not communicating correctly and misreading. It's plainly the case after you said you didn't know anyone from Relic (The company) and I was talking about Relic designers, a phrase meaning old hats that cannot move their cheese in the design process.
Come to think of it, I wonder how much else is miscommunicated.
With that said, at least in the MMORPG genre, teamwork no longer exists other than there are a few chiefs shouting down orders and the 99% of the rest do the work they are told too, regardless of their title.
Welcome to the new game industry. Lots of things have changed, my friend.
Come to think of it, I wonder how much else is miscommunicated.
With that said, at least in the MMORPG genre, teamwork no longer exists other than there are a few chiefs shouting down orders and the 99% of the rest do the work they are told too, regardless of their title.
Welcome to the new game industry. Lots of things have changed, my friend.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,866
- 6,822
Hah, oops about the Relic designers
Have to disagree with much of the rest. The gaming industry hasn't changed that much. It is bigger and the project sizes are larger but the basic divisions of labor remain the same. And every project is a team enterprise, even more so now than it was 15 years ago. Team leaders hire the best team they can, hope that the team will gell and then execute their ideas in a way that makes the game a success.
Yes, old designers (old relics) tend to reuse old tricks. And I agree that doesn't help move the mmo space forward. But new teams bring new blood in and of themselves. So the industry isn't totally stagnant, it is moving forward, just not as fast as we would like it to.
So my main point is it's all about execution. Yes, the team leads tell people what to do and it is their ideas that are worked on. But ideas are a dime a dozen, EVERY fucking gamer has them and thinks theirs are better. What people always forget is that ideas are a very small part of a project, 99.9999 percent of it is hard work and execution. And that isn't done by the team leaders.
You can not blame one person for a team's success or failure. I know that it is human nature to do so, but is invariably wrong. Some people do deserve more credit than others for good or bad, and weak links can cause serious issues. But only the other team members will really know who that is and even they will be biased. And a good team will overcome the weak links that are always present.
TLDR: A new team is a new entity, it will be defined by it's current project. Not past glories or failures.
UT is right about the leads thing in my experience. Most designers don't design anything, they either implement someone else's ideas or come up with some that are gradually changed into someone else's through the usual useless series of meetings.
The only counter to it is to just go make it and show it to everyone running. Sneak it into a playable and get QA on your side
The only counter to it is to just go make it and show it to everyone running. Sneak it into a playable and get QA on your side
Sabbat
Trakanon Raider
- 1,834
- 760
The thing I've noticed about the "gamer that has an idea" is their utter inability to explain that idea. Furthermore, they quite often only see that idea in a vacuum and don't place it in a larger construct. You see it time and time again in threads, that "this is done wrong, and this game did it right" but they can't tell youwhy, or how another system functions. Or in one breath they'll say "yeah, death penalties are awesome" and the next breath say "I just don't have the time to commit....". I've spent a great deal of time asking that why, and acknowledging that some games are just not designed for me anymore now that priorities have changed, and what I considered to be awesome 5 years ago, just isn't that awesome anymore.
When you (Grim1) talk about tablets and so forth, I wonder, this "next big thing" that will happen on those devices... have you considered they already have? tap games and town builders have exploded, not because they are awesome games, but because of the method of delivery -- Facebook, Tablets, Smart Phones.
Draegan is right in that the next big innovation shift will likely happen with a technology change. Diablo was a beat-em-up co-op RPG, EQ was a MUD with a Quake interface. Halo was a massive game -- because it was the forerunner of FPS games on a console, coming well after games like Doom and Counterstrike (which was big in it's own right). A tech shift doesn't need to be hardware, it can be the creation of the online communities we saw in Usenet groups, Diablo chat rooms, and finally Facebook and things like TwitchTV.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
- 185
That is a depressingly long trough but you are probably accurate where we are on the wave.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,866
- 6,822
You could be right. I admit to not being as ahead of the curve techwise as I once was, getting older and all that. Use to be the one with all the new gadgets, now my nieces and nephews are the trailblazers. Can't imagine how far behind I'll be when my children reach that age.
I'm with you, Grim. My Comp Sci from the late 80s just doesn't cut it anymore.
That said PC horsepower still keeps cranking up a la Moore's Law. That said I think change will be easier on a console. Development, lock down, and costs should theoretically be cheaper. Hopefully someone will leverage the Xbox One or PS4 and create that killer nextgen MMO.
While I hate to agree with Ut, the problem with MMOs is they are still all run by the same groups and keep using the same basic design with gadgets on top.
That said PC horsepower still keeps cranking up a la Moore's Law. That said I think change will be easier on a console. Development, lock down, and costs should theoretically be cheaper. Hopefully someone will leverage the Xbox One or PS4 and create that killer nextgen MMO.
While I hate to agree with Ut, the problem with MMOs is they are still all run by the same groups and keep using the same basic design with gadgets on top.
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 5,908
- 4,483
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,319
- 12,099
Seriously. This is their claim to fame on a web site after 6 years in dev? Showing a monster in a swamp we have all seen countless times before in 15 other games in the last 10 years?
Jesus.
Blackwulf, are you trolling us by even calling this out? Or were you actually serious just now in posting this.
Wait... Wait....
Oh... My... God....
More work for effects artists! It's called 6 minutes to scale the size and 5 minutes for some database junkie to copy paste the existing powers to the spell pool it works from and increase power by a set dependant.
Someone build a facepalm emoticon. Please.
All kidding aside, they are reaching so much to want to talk about something they are glorifying a swamp mob this much. I'm starting to just feel downright fucking sorry for them at this point, it's so pitiful.
6+ months to release not many games are showing much at all. Many times the original release dates are pushed back. No clue if that will happen with this one but acting shocked that there isn't a ton of video out there when stuff is really early is pretty stupid. My guess is they'll slowly ramp it up as it gets closer.
Once they get another pass on animations they'll probably have some longer combat videos. Right now the interrupt to block and a few other basic parts of the animation still needs work.
Once they get another pass on animations they'll probably have some longer combat videos. Right now the interrupt to block and a few other basic parts of the animation still needs work.
Denaut
Trump's Staff
- 2,739
- 1,279