The Elder Scrolls Online

DMK_sl said:

Has no argument so resorts to insults like a child. Honestly pathetic.

http://subliminalmanipulation.blogsp...tising-in.html

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Has no sense of humour so gets immediately butthurt. Honestly pathetic.

Listen up Obamacare,

(somebody drop me a beat)

Free to play is here to stay,
Me and my homies? Ya we like it that way
Sick of frontin' Wakandans like DMK
Spewin' all that commie propagand-A
Wish he'd quit bein' so gay and go away

FACED

Gecko_sl said:

My guess is they have the cash shop setup just in case the sub model doesn't work out.

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Don't back track now. You implied they had some noble reason for the cash shop. Now apparently it's because they are a business and just want to squeeze money out of our pockets. Which one is it? Is it just in case the Sub Fee doesn't go well or is it to make as much money as possible?

Gecko_sl said:

This almost turned into an epic rant, but you bottled too much in. Stop holding back so much, DMK.

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Gecko_sl said:

I actually thought your reply was a tad weak, as you've done much better rants.

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So let me get this right. It was 'almost' an epic rant but it was actually weak? So it wasn't almost an epic rant at all it was a weak rant? Justifying a Sub and a Cash shop is wrong plain and simple. So obviously I'm going to disagree with you and show you why it is wrong and unfair to gamers. It should be one or the other.

Whoa are there really people supporting a sub and cash shop in the same game? I mean if they were 2 different servers that would be cool. A sub server and a FTP server but together? That shit will just lead to bad things. Come on guys have some standards to hold the industry to. Don't just accept shit like that as well they gotta make money.. Next thing you know you're buying game, subbing and buying bag space in the cash shop. IT WILL happen if you allow it to.

Quaid_sl said:

Has no sense of humour so gets immediately butthurt. Honestly pathetic.

Listen up Obamacare,

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So let me get this straight.. You try to insult me and I was supposed to find it funny? Do you often walk up to random people insult them then stand there surprised that they aren't laughing?

Quaid_sl said:

DMK, not only are you potentially a very intellectually weak individual if you so easily fall prey to what you call 'subliminal messaging' (bullshit), it is becoming more and more evident that you are a fucking commie.

Go back to Russia.

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DMK_sl said:

STAND BY FOR MIND CONTROL

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I see you making mountains out of molehills. If Clarissa_the_druid wants to spend 15 dollars on a FluffyBunny pet then who am I to tell her no? If I were an exec and tens of thousands of people were willing to buy these items then it makes good business sense.What I think or want doesn't matter. Thus my point. I don't buy your subliminal messaging point so I chose to ignore it. What I'm waiting for is who the fuck defines what is *fair*. I think microtransactions in MMOs by and large are extremely fair compared to the slop on facebook and in Zyngaland. Generally subs and most free MMOs do not wall content, and mostly add convenience or vanity items.

Also, what are your thoughts on WOW requiring *subscribers* to purchase expansion packs for 40 dollars a pop? Shouldn't my 15/mo pay for that content?

I'm not purposely trolling but I think you might be. There's no way you can buy the MIND CONTROL bullshit.

DMK_sl said:

So let me get this straight.. You try to insult me and I was supposed to find it funny? Do you often walk up to random people insult them then stand there surprise that they aren't laughing?

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You honestly took me calling you a 'commie' seriously? What fucking year is it? 1952?

Join me later for a bottle 'a suds! Me and my chums are headin' down to the blind tiger to check out some dames!

Retard (that, was an insult)

Gecko, she's paying a sub to the game man. That shit should come with it. I know people don't want to hear it but insert slippery slope argument here.

Though the Matt Firor interview might be slightly confusing by its choice of words, I don't think their item shop is a cash shop like Guild Wars 2. I might be proven wrong but I think it would be more like WoW (character renames, faction change, pets, mounts, etc).

Gecko_sl said:

I see you making mountains out of molehills. If Clarissa_the_druid wants to spend 15 dollars on a FluffyBunny pet then who am I to tell her no? If I were an exec and tens of thousands of people were willing to buy these items then it makes good business sense.What I think or want doesn't matter. Thus my point. I don't buy your subliminal messaging point so I chose to ignore it. What I'm waiting for is who the fuck defines what is *fair*. I think microtransactions in MMOs by and large are extremely fair compared to the slop on facebook and in Zyngaland. Generally subs and most free MMOs do not wall content, and mostly add convenience or vanity items.

Also, what are your thoughts on WOW requiring *subscribers* to purchase expansion packs for 40 dollars a pop? Shouldn't my 15/mo pay for that content?

I'm not purposely trolling but I think you might be. There's no way you can buy the MIND CONTROL bullshit.

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Sigh. You have no valid argument so you use extreme approaches/stances to try and back your own statement up...

Research has shown subliminal messaging works to a point.www.google.com. You are also disregarding the fact that manipulating someones emotional attachment to a character/game is wrong. As I've already said imagine if you bought a Tv series and on the 9th one they asked you too pay $1 more? You'd be outraged.

You are failing to see that the x amount of dollars isn't the relevant issue. It's the transparency that is beginning to become less and less. The less transparent devs can be about what a Sub Fee and a Cash shop actually gives you and how they point you towards it the more power they have to manipulate you.

A dev company could say our game is going to cost 1000 dollars and then that's it the whole game is yours. The 1000 dollar amount isn't the issue because it is a rational choice you have given someone. They can choose to buy it knowing there options. Selling something implying one thing then adding in extra shit whenever you feel you can get extra money out of a customer is what is wrong. You have taken away their ability to make a rational decision because they don't have all the information required to make a rational decision.

For example if I said to you heres a game for 60 bucks and the sub is 15 bucks but in 3 months time you will most likely be spending around 30 bucks a month to be the best you can be. You'd most like say 'thats bullshit' where is if I sold you that same game and didn't tell you about the increase in money spent but then came to you at the 3month mark and said "just chuck in an extra 15 here and you can be the best you can be you would be more likely to agree to spending that money because you are already financially and emotionally commited.

Convo_sl said:

Gecko, she's paying a sub to the game man. That shit should come with it. I know people don't want to hear it but insert slippery slope argument here.

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I'm not saying they shouldn't have access to everything ingame. I'd prefer if convenience, novelty, and fluff items were available ingame as well, but is it cool for things that you can quest for that are not player impacting to be bought by the impatient? I don't agree with a sub game having a cash shop, but I think it's silly to call it 'unfair'.

I think with more competition we'll see smarter implementations of cash shops. I really like what Trion is doing, in that most of their cash shop fluff items by and large can be found in the world, and they don't have a sub.

Quaid_sl said:

You honestly took me calling you a 'commie' seriously? What fucking year is it? 1952?

Join me later for a bottle 'a suds! Me and my chums are headin' down to the blind tiger to check out some dames!

Retard (that, was an insult)

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Lol I'd like to see you talk like that to someone in real life that you didn't know and see if they take it as an insult.. My bad I should have known through your facial expressions and tone of voice that you were joking.. Oh that's right we are on the internet.

Gecko_sl said:

I'm not saying they shouldn't have access to everything ingame. I'd prefer if convenience, novelty, and fluff items were available ingame as well, but is it cool for things that you can quest for that are not player impacting to be bought by the impatient? I don't agree with a sub game having a cash shop, but I think it's silly to call it 'unfair'.

I think with more competition we'll see smarter implementations of cash shops. I really like what Trion is doing, in that most of their cash shop fluff items by and large can be found in the world, and they don't have a sub.

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How is it not unfair? To withhold knowledge from a customer gaining the upper hand and using it against them to try and make them spend more money? Implying that with a sub fee she/he receives the whole game..We haven't even got into the 'slippery slope' argument or what ESO seem to be implying by launching with a sub and a cash shop. That they are trying to take advantage of the first 3 months of the games launch knowing they don't have a good solid game that will be played long term.. I'm not saying ESO won't be good only pointing out what a cash shop AND a sub fee could be implying.

Why is this shady business model ok for the gaming industry and yet if they did it to TV or Music people would be outraged.. When it is essentially the same thing. Does it work on everyone? No of course not. Does it work on a lot of people? Yes. It's immoral.

With regard to payment model: It's really low on my concerns list. I can afford some cash every month to play a game if I think it's giving me enough entertainment for my money. That's a subjective #. With regard to F2P. All I know is from experience with DDO's F2P model - I've spent over 300 bucks in DDO this year alone. Lol. I wouldn't call that F2P. They nickel and dime you by getting you used to shit like xp pots and mana pots, and otto's boxes. Granted, I could do without those things, but, yeah, it's more fun with. I'd rather just pay a flat fee for all content. As far as fluff goes (not game affecting stuff like xp pots) I don't care if that's in a shop, I prob won't spend money on it.

Edit: for the record - I definitely would rather get EVERYTHING for a flat fee. I don't like any cash shop, even for fluff.

On another note:

There's a new leak on reddit that supposedly shows 2+ hours of gameplay with decent graphic settings and fairly high quality recording. I've not watched it yet, but you guys might want to check it out and read the thread. Details on how to get the torrent are there. I won't post links, cause I don't want to put non-NDA items directly on this board.

Blackwulf_sl said:

With regard to payment model: It's really low on my concerns list. I can afford some cash every month to play a game if I think it's giving me enough entertainment for my money. That's a subjective #.

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Whether you have the money to spend or not is irrelevant. Also payment model shouldn't be low on your concern list as it's the first entry point/barrier into a game that you hope succeeds.

I wonder what mount they could sell in their item shop. Striders ? Or maybe flying horses :

mkopec_sl said:

Also EXP pots and shit like that is pay to win. I tried to argue this in my head how its not, but it just simply is. unless one of you can convince me how its not P2W.

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Well, I think you have to ask yourself, is being max level 'winning'? If so, why? What about attaining max level more quickly gives one an advantage over others?

If it affects how the game is played by adding something or taking it away it's P2W IMO. So I agree with u.

Quaid_sl said:

Ya I say fuck all businesses that try to squeeze out money from their customers!

I'm gonna FUCKING BURN every candy bar rack at every convenience store I see! They are just trying to get me to impulse buy with chocolatey micro transactions! My 7-11 experience could be so much better if that space was free to be filled with products I actually need!...

Furthermore, if my burger is better with bacon, why doesn't it just come with bacon in the first place? Are you a broke ass scrub that can't afford $1.00? I'd rather pay more and get the sandwich the way it is meant to be eaten than have some tool ask me to upgrade my burger every time I go to the drive through.

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Without distracting you from the fight with DMK, real life analogies suck. Nickle&diming is one thing if they nickle&dime stuff you would get for free with a sub, I can live with that. But B2P/F2P games are faced with the decision of "do we want to put this in as content or as revenue" on every item, every skin, every tunnel leading something that drops loot. GW2 has been bad with their priorities on what to sell and what to put in as playable content, without any P2W shenanigans and without an 'unfair' gem store. The ratio of gem store skins to skins you play for just sucks, the skins are the goals in that game and the way to get them is optimize your gold gain (ideally, flip stuff on the TP instead of adventuring). No thanks, I want to kill monsters for my stuff. Imo that is the real danger and not wether a bag costs $1 or $2.

Quaid_sl said:

Has no sense of humour so gets immediately butthurt. Honestly pathetic.

Listen up Obamacare,

(somebody drop me a beat)

Free to play is here to stay,
Me and my homies? Ya we like it that way
Sick of frontin' Wakandans like DMK
Spewin' all that commie propagand-A
Wish he'd quit bein' so gay and go away

FACED

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Ok that was kinda funny.

mkopec_sl said:

Also EXP pots and shit like that is pay to win. I tried to argue this in my head how its not, but it just simply is. unless one of you can convince me how its not P2W.

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My definition for P2W: If I can reasonably obtain it without paying real money and/or do not need it at all (cosmetics), it's not P2W. XP pots in a game that has a level cap you can reliably reach, not P2W, convenience.