The Expanse

Ladro

Anomaly
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547
Plus wouldn't she have to jump of harder then what the ship pushed off in order to catch up? Like maybe she would have to get a running start to at least have a chance to get to it?
This was my biggest complaint, aside from the trajectory lottery... the required velocity to overtake the leaving ship would have to be substantial and she was moving pretty damn fast for just pushing off with her arms and legs.
 

LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box
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So they jettisoned the protomolecule before the Zemeya exploded, yeah? Because they never met up for their rendez vous with Inaros's fleet. So either they dumped it in a pod or something OR, the much more interesting thing, would be if they DIDN'T and Mars is super pissed because they botched their agreement.

You really want an answer?
 

Grez

Molten Core Raider
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Yes. DS9 was better.
No. I enjoyed DS9 immensely, but no. Just no.


Yes, respond with 'In The Pale Moonlight'

B5 was written before it was ever shot (except for season 5), it was a well-knitted together over-arching storyline with a great deal of depth and character development. DS9 was a mish mash of hot and cold cobbled together season by season; its only saving grace was the Dominion War.
 
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Tarrant

<Prior Amod>
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No. I enjoyed DS9 immensely, but no. Just no.


Yes, respond with 'In The Pale Moonlight'

B5 was written before it was ever shot (except for season 5), it was a well-knitted together over-arching storyline with a great deal of depth and character development. DS9 was a mish mash of hot and cold cobbled together season by season; its only saving grace was the Dominion War.

nah
 

Cybsled

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B5 was good, DS9 was good. I personally liked DS9 more because I just enjoyed many of the characters more (especially the "side" characters, like Garak, Quark, Weyoun, Gul Dukat) and that show had a pretty great all around solid cast in terms of acting ability.
 

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
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B5 was good, DS9 was good. I personally liked DS9 more because I just enjoyed many of the characters more (especially the "side" characters, like Garak, Quark, Weyoun, Gul Dukat) and that show had a pretty great all around solid cast in terms of acting ability.
If they had someone go through the CGI and bring it up to 2021 standards I think B5 would be gold even against current shows. The plot and writing from JMS was top notch. Didn't he originally try to sell it to Roddenberry for DS9?
 
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Qhue

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He originally pitched the idea to Paramount and they passed on the concept of the series, but the DS9 series bible for the first season is remarkably similar to the materials for B5 that JMS included in the pitch proposal. Stuff like the Vorlon etc were intentionally misleading in the pitch because he didn't want to risk someone doing exactly what they did and steal the idea.

I enjoyed DS9, but I enjoyed Babylon 5 more precisely because of the overarching grand story. Stuff like precognition and foreshadowing is possible when you actually know what you are doing.

DS9 pissed me off because they felt the need to turn Star Trek space combat into something more akin to Star Wars (and similar to B5) which wrecked the very premise that had been previously established. Until DS9 Starfleet was presumed relatively small. The original series it was implied that the Constitution Class ships like the Enterprise were pretty much the entirety of Starfleet and roughly analogous to modern day naval fleets. Most starship combat is similar to Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan and shares commonalities with submarine warfare. Consider the number of times that the Enterprise was the only ship near/close-enough to Earth for something etc. The entire class of Starfleet Academy was in the hundreds of cadets, at best, enough to crew a significant fleet but only in the range of a few dozen or so. The battle at Wolf-359 was essentially EVERYTHING that Starfleet had anywhere near to the core of Federation space and it was maybe a dozen ships and a massive tragedy when they went boom.

Then in DS9 you have scenes where dozens of huge ships are casually blown to bits as if they were tissue paper. In some throwaway scenes you see multiple Galaxy Class starships (with the saucer attached no less) eviscerated in a matter of seconds in a way that made me wonder how the hell they even managed to crew the damn things. It reminded me more of WWI trench warfare where you had opposing armies encounter each other in the middle of nowhere and just turn each other into hamburger. They were trying to match B5 in terms of cool space battles with tons of shit on the screen and lost complete track of their own internal narrative in the process.
 
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Cybsled

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DS9 pissed me off because they felt the need to turn Star Trek space combat into something more akin to Star Wars (and similar to B5) which wrecked the very premise that had been previously established. Until DS9 Starfleet was presumed relatively small. The original series it was implied that the Constitution Class ships like the Enterprise were pretty much the entirety of Starfleet and roughly analogous to modern day naval fleets. Most starship combat is similar to Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan and shares commonalities with submarine warfare. Consider the number of times that the Enterprise was the only ship near/close-enough to Earth for something etc. The entire class of Starfleet Academy was in the hundreds of cadets, at best, enough to crew a significant fleet but only in the range of a few dozen or so. The battle at Wolf-359 was essentially EVERYTHING that Starfleet had anywhere near to the core of Federation space and it was maybe a dozen ships and a massive tragedy when they went boom.

Then in DS9 you have scenes where dozens of huge ships are casually blown to bits as if they were tissue paper. In some throwaway scenes you see multiple Galaxy Class starships (with the saucer attached no less) eviscerated in a matter of seconds in a way that made me wonder how the hell they even managed to crew the damn things. It reminded me more of WWI trench warfare where you had opposing armies encounter each other in the middle of nowhere and just turn each other into hamburger. They were trying to match B5 in terms of cool space battles with tons of shit on the screen and lost complete track of their own internal narrative in the process.

DS9 didn't expand the Federation. Your estimate of "100s" of Cadets makes no sense, even in TOS era. A Navy isn't just Aircraft Carriers or Battleships. It's destroyers, frigates, subs, etc. The Constitution or Galaxy classes were basically battleships. Yes, you don't have many battleships, but your navy isn't just battleships.

Starfleet is basically a "blue water" Navy. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to have any projection of power if you are numbering in the thousands and not 10s of thousands. Plus, Starfleet Academy always came across as something like an officer's school. O'Brien in DS9 made it clear you had your "enlisted" folks as well.

Wolf-359 was what was in the area basically. IRL, it is a red dwarf close to 8 LY from Earth, which in Star Trek distances is basically a trivial distance. I'm pretty sure the show made it clear they had to assemble what they could on short notice. The wiki says it was 40 ships at the battle. Which makes sense. To use a real life example, it would be like if there was some super ship headed towards the West Coast of the US. With barely any time, all you can muster is what is moored nearby on the West Coast, with the Hawaii fleet not able to get there in time and forget about the shit on the East Coast, Asia, etc. That would be a roughly correct analogy.

DS9 dominion war was different because Starfleet basically recalled most of their ships to consolidate them for defense/offense. Real Life example again, if the US Navy said "fuck, we need to protect the country, we're under attack", then one of your first actions is to consolidate your spreadout fleet into specific areas to defend and potentially go on the offensive when able.

I do agree the battles in Star Trek were always too "linear", though. Everyone just lines up and shoots each other like old battle formations during the Civil War/Revolutionary War.
 

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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No. I enjoyed DS9 immensely, but no. Just no.


Yes, respond with 'In The Pale Moonlight'

B5 was written before it was ever shot (except for season 5), it was a well-knitted together over-arching storyline with a great deal of depth and character development. DS9 was a mish mash of hot and cold cobbled together season by season; its only saving grace was the Dominion War.

I can totally understand someone's personal tastes leaning them more towards B5, especially with knowing how much of the story was written ahead of time and what it allowed that series to do. But claiming the only saving grace for DS9 was the Dominion War just isn't correct, and it also had plenty of character development over the course of the series.
 
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Sterling

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Amos is still awesome.

Naomi did some actual boss engineering shit. I'm amazed. She's still exceedingly shitty to watch though.
 
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pharmakos

soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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Man only two episodes left? Feels like not much has happened overall this season, kind of Season 1-ish slow burn.
 
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LachiusTZ

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Man only two episodes left? Feels like not much has happened overall this season, kind of Season 1-ish slow burn.

Yeah, this should be about ep 3 imo...

Feels like infinitely less nerd porn, and a lot more NAOMI DA QWEEN.

I thought the rocks falling, which killed billions in the book, would be a great chance to really get some good stuff...

Instead, it was what... A few short clips of a rock in space, two booms, and then over? They could have really lavished is with like 10-15 minutes of amazing graphics of the rocks coming through the atmosphere, breaking up, blowing huge chunks of Earth into the air, resulting seismic events etc etc.

Instead, we get old NAOMI talking to her fucking kid, or walking around the ship, etc.

It's more soap than nerd porn now.
 

Goatface

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this one felt like it was part of a season that would been 20+ episodes and they needed to save some money.
 

Cybsled

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They’re being faithful to the books for the most part. All this buildup comes into play later through book 6.
 

Cybsled

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You couldn’t without cutting a lot. They seemed to have dropped an entire thing with Alex and Bobbie at the moment, or maybe they are just deferring it