The Jedi were wrong

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The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262

I propose that the Jedi order were nothing more than religious extremists. They were essentially the Conservative party of the Republic. Their teaching was very dogmatic, restrictive, and close-minded. If they were the Right, the Sith were the Left. The Jedi did not teach all the facts, only the parts that suited their cause. There were topics that were off limits and certain emotions and behaviors that were outright prohibited. The Sith were about freedom and passion.

The Jedi thought you could bring balance to the Force by completely eliminating one side of it. That is not logical. The Jedi thought Anakin failed the prophecy when he turned to the Dark Side. In fact, he did indeed balanc it. The Jedi had a monopoly. Anakin brought their numbers down to a number equal to the Sith. Obi-Wan and Yoda/Anakin and Palpatine.

Although I don't agree with what Palpatine ultimately did with his power; his were a persecuted people and he sought revenge. His teachings and that of the Sith are spot on. You shouldn't ignore one side, you should embrace the entirety of the Force. Good and Evil, Light and Dark are just perspectives. The Dark Side is all-emcompassing which is why it is more powerful, and ultimately the better choice.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
42,271
50,242
Well, the Sith are undeniably evil, but the Jedi definitely aren't good guys by any stretch of the imagination. They're neutral at best.
 

The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262
What they chose to do with their teachings is usually on the no bueno side, but the philosophy is sound.
 

Caliane

Golden Baronet of the Realm
14,424
9,798
We can only assume the rules just don't work the same in their universe.
As really, both philosophies are kindof stupid.

I kindof wanted to write a story of a Jedi that found a Sith Holocron learned the Sith Oath, and lost faith in the Jedi, was kicked out. But did take it in another direction. Passion, to Joy. where exactly do Joy, and love, and hope fit into the scheme of the force? They aren't dark. they aren't light.
The problem was did this break the rules, and become too mary sue. Wasn't sure the story could be written. Either A, it gives the answer there is a third side of the force, or that the "dark side" is only dark because the people that use it are always assholes, therefor everyone else is dumb. or B. nope. I would have to kill her off, and say, nope, joy doesn't work.
 
1,347
-1
Lucas is a fag who didnt read any of the eastern philosophy he was stealing from. The RL 'Jedi' are the Taoist priests. They invented powerful martial arts, giving no fucks, tantric sex, and it took only a single one(Bai Mei)to sack Shaolin Temple.


tumblr_m8fl1aYsgB1qzzp2wo1_500.gif
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
42,271
50,242
Except the Jedi aren't the 'light' side of the force, they just claim they are. The Jedi are the grey side of the force, all the actual lightsiders are typically people who got kicked out of the Jedi Order for not being Vulcan enough.
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
Hmm isn't one of teachings of the Jedi that they understand so very little of the force? And that makes it entirely possible that there aren't light and dark sides of the force?
 

Caliane

Golden Baronet of the Realm
14,424
9,798
No. there is are Grey Jedi already. and that is separate.
Light side is Order.
Dark side is Chaos.

Jedi are more sensitive to massive mood swings from influence for the force. The Jedi suppress their emotions to stay calm and serine. Dark Side embrace these emotional outbursts. Which apparently invariably lead to negative emotions. This is why good jedi can turn evil though. The force makes their emotions fly out of control.

There is already a Grey that says hiding from your emotions is half a life.
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
No. there is are Grey Jedi already. and that is separate.
Light side is Order.
Dark side is Chaos.

Jedi are more sensitive to massive mood swings from influence for the force. The Jedi suppress their emotions to stay calm and serine. Dark Side embrace these emotional outbursts. Which apparently invariably lead to negative emotions. This is why good jedi can turn evil though. The force makes their emotions fly out of control.

There is already a Grey that says hiding from your emotions is half a life.
That is not exactly what I meant but even so it seems the Force is far more complicated anyway.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force.

There seem to have been enough views of the force that worked at different times to indicate that no one way of using the force was the "correct" way. Just the popular way at the time.
 
1,347
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No. there is are Grey Jedi already. and that is separate.
Light side is Order.
Dark side is Chaos.

Jedi are more sensitive to massive mood swings from influence for the force. The Jedi suppress their emotions to stay calm and serine. Dark Side embrace these emotional outbursts. Which apparently invariably lead to negative emotions. This is why good jedi can turn evil though. The force makes their emotions fly out of control.

There is already a Grey that says hiding from your emotions is half a life.
Sounds like 'The Force' is as big a dickhead as that Bible God guy.
 

sunhillow_sl

shitlord
29
0
To put it in 40K terms - I think the Jedi are like the Inquisition, not really "good" but aware enough to know most folk should stay out of the warp (dark side) for their own good. Sith are the children of Chaos. So good/evil really depends on what side you are on.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
To put it in 40K terms - I think the Jedi are like the Inquisition, not really "good" but aware enough to know most folk should stay out of the warp (dark side) for their own good. Sith are the children of Chaos. So good/evil really depends on what side you are on.
Eeehhhhhhh... No. In 40k Chaos is pretty clearly terribad. It is just a matter of the lengths of horrible you go to stop the terribad from taking over and if they are justified is the question. I would never compare the two.

I tend to shy away from Force discussions as the "rules" seem debatable and vary from source to source and the technical cannonical source of it all (Lucas) is awful.
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
6,961
21,820
The best side, is the side that doesn't cry about how much his/their life sucks and breaks out in emotional tantrums and blames everyone else for their own shittiness. I dunno which side that encompasses however.
 

Xeldar

Silver Squire
1,546
133
The best side, is the side that doesn't cry about how much his/their life sucks and breaks out in emotional tantrums and blames everyone else for their own shittiness. I dunno which side that encompasses however.
You mean Lucas' dynamic, eloquent dialogue never explored this theme?
 

sunhillow_sl

shitlord
29
0
Chaos is pretty clearly terribad.
Yeah I made it more simple sounding than it is. I agree Chaos is clearly bad (unless you enjoy tenticles and/or feathers coming out of your face) but I was trying to put it in Star Wars terms. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have done that since 40K is a lot deeper.

Not to piss off and Star Wars folks, but I would give Vader all of 10 seconds against Eisenhorn.
wink.png
 

The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262
Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi use their power for good.
Supreme Chancellor: Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
Anakin Skywalker: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
Supreme Chancellor: And the Jedi don't?
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others.


It is not possible to be truly selfless. Therefore the Jedi are living a lie.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi use their power for good.
Supreme Chancellor: Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
Anakin Skywalker: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
Supreme Chancellor: And the Jedi don't?
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others.


It is not possible to be truly selfless. Therefore the Jedi are living a lie.
So it is better to be a dick and succeed, than try to help people and sometimes fail?

You are buying into an argument that worked on a retard like Anakin Skywalker, congrats.
 

The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262
So it is better to be a dick and succeed, than try to help people and sometimes fail?

You are buying into an argument that worked on a retard like Anakin Skywalker, congrats.
Nowhere did I say how to treat others. In fact I said I disagreed with what Palpatine ultimately does.

My argument is that the Sith don't restrict your learning and ability. I would argue that you could incorporate passion and strength to do very good things.

Palpatine is pointing out the bullshit and hypocrisy of the Jedi beliefs.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
The idea is having an ideal to strive for, to stand apart from your own emotional feelings on issues to understand the true "Will of the Force".

Of course, this is assuming there is a "Will of the Force" and if one belives in such a thing. Since we can't sense it we can't really comment on it. And again the lore is unclear on such things.

The intent isn't to cut off learning and ability so much is it is tor avoid dark paths. If you are occasionally calling on emotion to strengthen you, then you may grow reliant on it, or find yourself clouded on it when the time comes you need a clear head, or just find it tainting your ability to hear the will of the force, etc.