The Martial Arts Thread

Oblio_sl said:

We pay $75 a month for my oldest kid's BJJ. Classes are M-W-F 4:30-5:30 PM, come as little or as much as you want. When I signed up his little brother there was a $25 discount, so we pay $125 for two kids.

My cost is $90 for just me, but he knocks $25 off each kid, so $190 for all 3 of us and I think if my wife ever joined he said he would would take off 33% again ($30) off so $250 for a family of 4. Keep in mind there are 2-3 adult classes every day except Sunday.

We also live in Spokane, WA where the cost of living is below the national average.

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They wanted $140 a month for three 45 minute sessions a week. Open mat was Friday's only. When I trained in a studio, it was 85 a month, and unlimited classes and time. There were weeks when I was in there 20+ hours a week. They made it clear, you can't do that in this studio. I guess we'll look around, but as we live in the rich people's area, we are probably going to have to drive a distance to get a better rate with more training. They have like 20+ sessions a week, but no matter what, it's two sessions a week at 99 and three at 140. That, combined with the large class size we saw today, and it makes me nervous. 20 kids to one instructor is not good. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I got a private lesson every week in my plan. I wish we still lived near my old studio, but it's 100 miles one way.

tldr: it's almost double for 1/10 the amount of personal training time I'm used to

And the next studio that looked halfway professional wanted $175 a month for just two sessions a week.

We've settled on Krav Maga/Combative Jujitsu. I did it namely because the instructor had a background in Kenpo, and the strikes in Krav Maga are pretty close (other than the whole blocking with your hands open thing). I can drill her on stuff at home, and have been. We looked at other studios, and I've been amazed at what some people try to pass off as a school. When you earn a black belt, it should mean something. You shouldn't be able to get your black belt in one to two years.

Hoss_sl said:

I really enjoy visiting karate schools and watching what they teach. If it's a good school, then I might learn something, but even when it's a terrible school, I get a good laugh.

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The one school almost fooled me. But when I sat down and they said you could get your black belt with only two 45 minute sessions a week, that's what told me. You couldn't attend more than twice a week.

Hoss_sl said:

Did he only have classes twice a week? My first class was like that because he taught through the school and that was all the dance room access they would allow. But I found another one later that was a commercial school, running 5 days a week all day long and they limited your classes. He said there was no amount of money I could pay that would allow me to come train every day. That's a red flag. Pretty sure it means he doesn't have much to teach. That school was total dildoes, just all around. The sign out front had every martial art they could think of listed except Tae Kwon Do, but when I saw them practice, it was basically TKD. I was like, "so, when's the Tai Chi and Kung Fu practice .. I'd be interested in that". "Oh Tai Chi and kung fu are just other words for karate"

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They, under no circumstances, wanted you out more than three times a week, and that was for $160. Mind you, I'm in the midwest. That's a lot.

When I trained in my studio, that wanted us there every day, from 6-10 PM, and all day on Saturday. If you were going to get your black belt, that's what was expected. I had to take business trips out of town, and that caused friction. I still practiced every day, though. My Head Instructor fibbed and told the head of our Association that I was there every day. Because as a brown belt, he had to give reports on how often you were there. If you weren't assisting a certain amount of hours a week (for free), you wouldn't progress. I remember being injured once and being told that I couldn't take off until Christmas time.

Lyrical_sl said:

When I trained in my studio, that wanted us there every day, from 6-10 PM, and all day on Saturday. If you were going to get your black belt, that's what was expected. I had to take business trips out of town, and that caused friction. I still practiced every day, though. My Head Instructor fibbed and told the head of our Association that I was there every day. Because as a brown belt, he had to give reports on how often you were there. If you weren't assisting a certain amount of hours a week (for free), you wouldn't progress. I remember being injured once and being told that I couldn't take off until Christmas time.

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That's bullshit on the other end of the spectrum. It's supposed to be a hobby, not a cult.

Captain Suave_sl said:

That's bullshit on the other end of the spectrum. It's supposed to be a hobby, not a cult.

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It was OK, but when I wanted to take off, I took off. There would be times when I would ask myself why I was doing what I was doing. I still haven't been in a fight in my adult life (plenty when I was a kid though). When I would ask myself why I was wearing myself out, I'd take a week off to play EQ and nerd out.

I just think it's ridiculous that some schools try to say you are black belt with two or even three 45 minutes sessions a week. We'd log that on Monday night. Hell, if we were on vacation, we could just walk into the studio and train. Not many schools allow that any more. A lot of these guys teach part time and work full time. I noticed a lot of the schools open at 5:30. To this day, my studio opens at 10 and closes at 10 every weekday.

Hoss_sl said:

Damn dude, was your style chung moo doe?

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I'm not sure what you mean. If the reference was to money, it was only $85 a month for unlimited training and four private lessons. You can't get that any more for that price.

Hoss_sl said:

CMD was one of the many names for this martial arts cult (the first name I heard so it's the one I remember). What you were saying reminded me of some of the stories I read about them requiring students to work in the dojo in their free time, giving them a hard time for injuries, barely tolerating that the student worked real jobs, and encouraging them to just sell their houses and live at the dojo (giving the proceeds to the dojo, of course).

Oom Yung Doe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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What we call a cult has been done for thousands of years in Kung Fu temples. It's more of Americans being lazy and not willing to work for anything any more. Ever talk to an Instructor that trained overseas? They have to lower intensity by 75% or we won't support it. I remember the one Instructor who came from overseas, and he comes to town and tells the other Instructors that he's going to be the largest school in town. Schools aren't big enough, because they don't train nearly as hard as they do overseas. So he's going to have them train in the snow barefoot. He couldn't keep more than three students at once.

In general, we are pretty much pussies in comparison to how it used to be done. I've heard stories like this over and over again. Train them too hard and they quit. I remember when our studio was determined to make us tough. So it was 120 degrees heat index outside, and the room was packed, and they decided to turn off the A/C. People were falling out as they made us bust our asses with no rest. They wondered why they went from a class of 30 to a class of four or five in less than a week.

Hoss_sl said:

My teacher learned karate in okinawa. He never mentioned having to tone it down for americans. The only thing he's ever said close to that is that he used kyu ranks for a while for americans because they weren't patient enough to earn a black belt before needing some sort of validation. But I can ask him about the intensity of the workouts when he was just a student.

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Yes, Americans need constant validation, and that is for watered down training.

Lyrical_sl said:

What we call a cult has been done for thousands of years in Kung Fu temples. It's more of Americans being lazy and not willing to work for anything any more. Ever talk to an Instructor that trained overseas? They have to lower intensity by 75% or we won't support it.

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I've had plenty of instructors with international experience (BJJ, karate, aikido). Americans are just as tough as anyone else. The pushback you're describing isn't Americans being pussies, it's personal strength in rejecting socially abusive relationships. Many of those mythical overseas students were stuck in subservient positions because they had literally no other choice than to suck it up or go back to a life of dire poverty. It just means that the instructors were dicks.

Lyrical_sl said:

In general, we are pretty much pussies in comparison to how it used to be done. I've heard stories like this over and over again. Train them too hard and they quit. I remember when our studio was determined to make us tough. So it was 120 degrees heat index outside, and the room was packed, and they decided to turn off the A/C. People were falling out as they made us bust our asses with no rest. They wondered why they went from a class of 30 to a class of four or five in less than a week.

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This is medically stupid. Dehydration and heat stroke are no joke. Just because people used to be morons doesn't mean we should continue to be so.

Captain Suave_sl said:

This is medically stupid. Dehydration and heat stroke are no joke. Just because people used to be morons doesn't mean we should continue to be so.

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Agreed. They later changed the policy to "feel free to get water without asking." Before, if you asked to drink water, or take a break, it was considered a sign of disrespect. But when they had some of their black belts falling out, they changed it. Everyone was falling out, regardless of rank. And the school suffered because enrollment started dropping. They literally had to call people up and tell them the A/C was back on and to come back.

They were trying to get us to the point of this (Harvard Gazette: Meditation changes temperatures), but we didn't get there . Some studies show that Kung Fu practitioners can change their body temp as much as 17 degrees. This study documented them sleeping in the Himalyan mountains while only wearing light cotton.

Apparently you can learn the fundamentals of how to manipulate core body temperatures in just a few days. This Vim Hoff dude is awesome and my brothers and I are toying the idea of doing his retreat as a quasi-vacation.