The Sandman

Rezz

Rezz

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I'm aware of the graphic novels/etc, but haven't read through them all. Lots of gender/race swaps at 7eps in, but honestly it's pretty enjoyable. If I wasn't aware the comic version existed, I wouldn't have any real complaints I don't think. Hob episode was straight up set piece awesomeness, and the irony of ancient concerns mirroring modern ones. Gaiman is a divisive figure - his views are frequently some eyeroll level shit (being in a long term relationship with Amanda Palmer probably has that impact) but I do like a lot of his work. I just wish he would stop trying to modernize works that existed in a different place. If viewers/readers can't understand that time changes, or that shit was different 10-20-30 years ago... it's on them, not the author.

Anyway, unless this completely shits the bed by episode 10, I am very much in on this world and looking forward to a season 2.

Edit - The lead

He looks absolutely spot on from some angles, and randomly fat-jawed from others. It's likely due to the camera work and the fact the guy didn't get mad plastic surgery for the part (Dream is angular as absolute fuck in the comics) but the actor has done a really good job with the remoteness and the brooding. After I finish this series I'm probably going to fire up the Crow for some more emo angst.
 
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Rogosh

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Pass for me, ill speak with my wallet. Hopefully this is some of the last woke crap Netflix makes.
 
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wamphyr

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This is not woke crap, come on. The narrative is there and it is good and entertaining. Just some shades of wokeness to get it pass the liberal censorship. This is a good show.
 
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Nabi

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Saw the first episode and it was good overall. I think every storyline change they made from the book has been worse than the book with the exception of the crow. The changes are small but a few of them really didn't make sense.

I was looking forward to seeing Alex's punishment being "eternal waking" and seeing a badass montage of him waking up from a nightmare leading into another nightmare etc..
Instead, Dream just tells him his punishment is "eternal sleep".... So disappointed.
 
Rezz

Rezz

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wamphyr said:
This is not woke crap, come on. The narrative is there and it is good and entertaining. Just some shades of wokeness to get it pass the liberal censorship. This is a good show.
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I mean... they definitely did a shitload of race/gender swaps to fit various woke ideologies. John Constantine is now a lesbian woman; death is a black woman, 2/3 the folks in the cafe were various shades of gay/multi-cultural relationships. It's not exactly hamfisted but there is also random black bar wenches in the Hob episode. It's definitely intentional.

The thing is, I wouldn't notice it if it wasn't clearly not the same in the graphic novels. If you have no idea what they are and don't know the characters? It won't seem as "woke."

The subjective problem is that the source material is clearly being modified heavily to fit an agenda. There's more black people in this series than actually live in Europe. And apparently they are all mostly lesbians and/or gay.
 
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Sterling

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wamphyr said:
This is not woke crap, come on. The narrative is there and it is good and entertaining. Just some shades of wokeness to get it pass the liberal censorship. This is a good show.
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This pretty much. It's hard to totally escape the woke stuff at this point and this underlying story is good.
 
lgarthy

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It's enjoyable so far. Would much rather have seen Matt Ryan return as John Constantine than have the girl from Doctor Who become Johanna Constantine.

Also- it is so dark. Not thematically but literally. I want to turn the brightness up on the TV half the time. A lot of shows take this tact and I will never quite understand why a producer would not want you to see their work.
 
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Ishad

Ishad

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Rezz said:
I mean... they definitely did a shitload of race/gender swaps to fit various woke ideologies. John Constantine is now a lesbian woman; death is a black woman, 2/3 the folks in the cafe were various shades of gay/multi-cultural relationships. It's not exactly hamfisted but there is also random black bar wenches in the Hob episode. It's definitely intentional.

The thing is, I wouldn't notice it if it wasn't clearly not the same in the graphic novels. If you have no idea what they are and don't know the characters? It won't seem as "woke."

The subjective problem is that the source material is clearly being modified heavily to fit an agenda. There's more black people in this series than actually live in Europe. And apparently they are all mostly lesbians and/or gay.
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I don’t feel like the source material is necessarily sacrosanct. It’s possible to make a better product by changing it significantly, of course it can be way worse. So far, the gender race swaps haven’t really done either, it’s just kind of distracting. I’d feel the same way about the show if they hadn’t. It’s okay, but I don’t think I would recommend it to anyone.
 
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Qhue

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Rogosh said:
Pass for me, ill speak with my wallet. Hopefully this is some of the last woke crap Netflix makes.
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We get it, yer a whiny little bitch. You don't need to keep reminding us.
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Look at all the people in this thread bowing down for scraps from the Woke table. Of course the underlying story is "still good": It's one of the great comic stories OF ALL TIME. All the Woke window dressing/ virtue signaling in the world would have a hard time changing that. Black cast=Virtue! And that's what this is: They have changed everything they could while leaving the core story untouched. All gay/interracial couples with a TOKEN cishetero Ken and Barbie? Why not? They fucking changed Constantine? In a world where they race/sex/orient-swap SUPERMAN, BATMAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA and IRON MAN, what's one demon fighter, I guess. GAIMAN'S involved? I guess that makes all of this Virtue Signaling Woke BS OK then, and we can just follow him off the cliff no problem, right?

BTW, Death as a slender Goth girl for those of you who don't remember 1987 was transgressive and subversive; Changing her to a Black woman in 2022 carries absolutely zero of that and is just more Woke Hollywood/Netflix Easy Virtue Signaling.

Ishad said:
I don’t feel like the source material is necessarily sacrosanct. It’s possible to make a better product by changing it significantly, of course it can be way worse. So far, the gender race swaps haven’t really done either, it’s just kind of distracting. I’d feel the same way about the show if they hadn’t. It’s okay, but I don’t think I would recommend it to anyone.
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GTFO. You're the reason Hollywood is murdering Franchise after Franchise looking for a built in audience rather than making new original material. Hopefully after Rings of Power loses Amazon a full BILLION this will stop at least a little.
 
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Asmadai

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The story is the only reason i'm actually going to finish watching this entire thing, but you're a moron if you don't see and understand the massive amounts of woke shit being shoved down your throat.

It's not even the gay/lesbian/interracial aspect that even bugs me the most. Look at all the white people in the show - if they aren't gay/lesbian/interracial lovers with someone, they are either serial killing nightmares, regular human serial killers, tongue-in-cheek whitecuck couple with obvious joke name Ken & Barbie, dindu-in-the-basement adopting abusers, etc. Oh, lets change Death to be some witty fun black lady, but guess what - evil ruler of the Realm of Hell, Lucifer Morningstar? Nah, lets leave her white.

It's not subtle, it's very fucking obvious that these changes are more than just little tweaks of the source material. And the problem with not being this subtle, is that it paints a world that doesn't exist. I don't care if this was filed for Europe, Africa - read this part carefully: there is not a god damn place on this fucking planet where gays, lesbians, and interracial couples are this prevalent.

This is nothing new, this is just these faggy woke directors/producers/etc trying to force this shit on us, to try and normalize us. It's one thing when they make their own content, but when they alter previously existing content to try and force the rest of us to believe this is the regular, normal, average way the world is now, it's fucking disgusting, insulting, and to top it off - a complete god damn lie.
 
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Ishad

Ishad

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Asmadai said:
The story is the only reason i'm actually going to finish watching this entire thing, but you're a moron if you don't see and understand the massive amounts of woke shit being shoved down your throat.

It's not even the gay/lesbian/interracial aspect that even bugs me the most. Look at all the white people in the show - if they aren't gay/lesbian/interracial lovers with someone, they are either serial killing nightmares, regular human serial killers, tongue-in-cheek whitecuck couple with obvious joke name Ken & Barbie, dindu-in-the-basement adopting abusers, etc. Oh, lets change Death to be some witty fun black lady, but guess what - evil ruler of the Realm of Hell, Lucifer Morningstar? Nah, lets leave her white.

It's not subtle, it's very fucking obvious that these changes are more than just little tweaks of the source material. And the problem with not being this subtle, is that it paints a world that doesn't exist. I don't care if this was filed for Europe, Africa - read this part carefully: there is not a god damn place on this fucking planet where gays, lesbians, and interracial couples are this prevalent.

This is nothing new, this is just these faggy woke directors/producers/etc trying to force this shit on us, to try and normalize us. It's one thing when they make their own content, but when they alter previously existing content to try and force the rest of us to believe this is the regular, normal, average way the world is now, it's fucking disgusting, insulting, and to top it off - a complete god damn lie.
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You’re just as much as a faggot as the people who complain that everyone in Friends was white.
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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It isn't that the presence of gays or blacks or interracial couples (although if you ask in the black community, you are going to get moderate/severe pushback on that: Black women hate black men dating outside their racial group and black women tend to not date as much out of their racial group;
this has to do with Socio-Economic group Status (SES) as well as blacks being perceived as more masculine by various racial groups, which makes males more attractive other groups' females and females less attractive to other groups' males, also due to a lack of black male availability due to imprisonment and higher mortality rates due to crime/violence, per research)

This has to do with the obvious agenda that the showrunners/producers have in making it. Does Sandman need updating? It was created in the 1980s! Do we really all need to be Re-educated in our fiction from 40 years ago? Does the KulturKampf demand that we be forced to learn that its OK for gay people to exist in every facet of OUR lives? Didn't we all know that already? Commercials, stories, movies, etc? Does every story from 10 min ago need to be updated so that network and the authors feel good about themselves that they got the MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF VIRTUE in the tale?

Will they keep revising fiction, games, the news even so we learn whatever lesson the creators think we need to learn? Can't EVERYONE see how dangerous and stupid this is?

Do we have to have maximum representation in every work of art? Can't people find someone like them not in the color of skin but in the workings of the character? What color is the human heart?

This is one of my favorite stories of all time but ISHAD thinks it can be improved by changing it significantly. I am sure EVERY WORK OF ART can be improved by changing it so it has a higher Rotten Tomatoes Score, More Woke Points, etc. I am sure the Cultural Commisaars on Twitter will clap greedily but when a culture dies, who cares what the vultures think of the corpse?
 
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spronk

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only watched 4 episodes but man the show is so fucking slow. I also really don't like the lead, I guess from the messages here he fits the graphic novel (never read it) but he looks so much like that sparkling vampire from Twilight and acts so dead and unemotional its hard to really give a shit about Lord Morpheus at all. Patton Oswalt as a raven is a horrible miscast, his unmatched (rest of cast) voice completely takes me out of the show every time he talks. Might as well have had fucking Gilbert Gottfried.

I am enjoying the show, mostly for the visuals and the weird world building - especially liked Lucifer and Mazikeen, after the other portrayal we saw on Lucifer - but I just can't understand the world at all. Clearly there is a God, Angels, Demons, Lucifer is a former Angel like in the Bible and then some sort of multi faceted realms like Dreams, Despair, Hell (??), etc but I don't get the connections between everything or why its so relatively easy for a human to capture and keep a Elder God (?) for so long with no repercussions or how there are so many magical items on Earth.

Hopefully some lore is dribbled out but I would have liked a bit more lore at the start to give me some stakes to root for, right now I have no idea why I am supposed to care about any of this. "Oh no the God of dreams is fucked... ok... he keeps saying its bad, but everything seems kinda ok and its hard to argue the middle ages, when he was active, was such a superior time for man. Its not fucking the lack of dreams that triggered WW2, Hitler had a dream!"
 
Janx

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I've seen a lot of Asian shows be it anime or drama that tackle trans/homo situations in a legit manner where it flows with the story. That's fine. Western shows will bludgeon you over the head with it for the sake putting it in, not to enhance the story. Fuck that. Soon as I saw the effeminate black guy show up in EP1 I knew exactly where it was headed. Fucking shame is what it is.
 
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yimmien

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There was totally a goatse reference in episode 4. There is no way the donut statue as they are leaving the gas station is not goatse.
 
Nija

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Even my wife has peaced out on this series. Way too gay, way too much box checking.
 
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Guurn

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I'm on episode 8 and not sure if I'm going to finish. I read the graphic novels back in the day but don't really remember much about them other than they were generally good.

The woke crap gets progressively worse. I bow out of a lot of content just to avoid it and vote with my dollar. This show is exactly the problem.

By episode 8 the quality of everything has dropped off dramatically. The acting is much worse, the storys strength is a weak parody of the previous ones and the woke substitutions are terrible. There only good thing is the serial killer. No one in the hotel house can act at all. It's below soap quality. It's like watching a drag queen perform a number compared to the original performer.

It's boring, funny and a little sad that a very successful writer either supplicated to get the show or he was so shallow that he thought it is worth making everything worse to try to trigger the bigots. Maybe it's just lazy. Rather than write a new story which includes these people that are so interesting to him he just added them in haphazardly. Like I said though, it's mostly just boring and sad.
 
Hatorade

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First 4 episodes were decent, then the diner was awesome until it was super gay. Like straight people are evil and unhappy and the gays are cool. I do remember joann Constatine from the comics so I guess that is cool, hell was interesting and the battle of wits with lucifer started cool then ended like two 8 years olds trying to one up each other.
dumb and dumber thread GIF
 
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