Tom Clancy's The Division

Xenrauk

Trakanon Raider
1,213
888
Making gameplay changes like taking out a feature that's exploited takes time. There are so many things that can go wrong and do go wrong that you then have to unfuck. Then that unfuck fucks 10 other things you didn't think of and now you just spent 4-5 months on one issue.

People don't understand that game engines are inherently not built to be plug and play. As games get bigger and people expect more from them they get infinitely more complex. It's one reason why a lot of large publishers are risk averse when it comes to implementing features... any features not already fully supported by an engine.

I have zero problem with that and fully understand it. Sadly the majority of people are not so understanding and I can't blame them either. What does the average person know about game development when game "journalists" teach them nothing about the industry beyond PR bullshit.
So you're telling me they don't have the ability to disable a skill?
It doesn't need to be permanently removed, but it needs to be disabled until they can figure out how to make it work properly and not be the basis for every exploit in the game.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,434
1,642
Making gameplay changes like taking out a feature that's exploited takes time. There are so many things that can go wrong and do go wrong that you then have to unfuck. Then that unfuck fucks 10 other things you didn't think of and now you just spent 4-5 months on one issue.

People don't understand that game engines are inherently not built to be plug and play. As games get bigger and people expect more from them they get infinitely more complex. It's one reason why a lot of large publishers are risk averse when it comes to implementing features... any features not already fully supported by an engine.

I have zero problem with that and fully understand it. Sadly the majority of people are not so understanding and I can't blame them either. What does the average person know about game development when game "journalists" teach them nothing about the industry beyond PR bullshit.
This is the same i was told by a dev, that some changes take weeks to push through even if they seem simple enough.
 

spronk

FPS noob
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just shows the inexperience of ubi/massive with MP gaming. black ops 3 for example runs a system where client side is never trusted for data, and more importantly EVERY game launch the game validates from the server key asset data and they can enable and disable at will all kinds of things with no client patch required, just minor tweaks to game data the client downloads every connect. When they inadvertently had a weapon buffed too much (and we are talking like 10% extra damage, not ridiculous stuff like division) they micro patched it with no client update within 2 hours of finding out and issued a real patch a week later.

it takes an extraordinary amount of extra effort to ensure your MP games are hack and cheat free, probably 10x more effort if you are going to release a game on PC.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
just shows the inexperience of ubi/massive with MP gaming. black ops 3 for example runs a system where client side is never trusted for data, and more importantly EVERY game launch the game validates from the server key asset data and they can enable and disable at will all kinds of things with no client patch required, just minor tweaks to game data the client downloads every connect. When they inadvertently had a weapon buffed too much (and we are talking like 10% extra damage, not ridiculous stuff like division) they micro patched it with no client update within 2 hours of finding out and issued a real patch a week later.

it takes an extraordinary amount of extra effort to ensure your MP games are hack and cheat free, probably 10x more effort if you are going to release a game on PC.
Yeah this is right.

However people that don't do game development or follow it don't realize that the more you move to the server the more it has to communicate with players. Not just you but everyone, and every intractable object, around you. This may be fine with a very mature netcode massaged over 3-4 titles with at most an 18 player limit but it gets progressively more difficult as you add more detail to the world and how players can interact. Each one can compound the complexity required to achieve a desired result. That's why comparing a lot of games based solely on how many players can interact in multiplayer is tricky.

This game has been in production for about 5 years prior to release with full game development not starting until early 2013. 3 years is not enough time to push out a game that wanted so hard to push the envelope but that seems to be standard in the industry. They obviously ripped the guts out of the game at the direction of Ubisoft and when you do that you get unintended consequences and break shit. If I had to guess this whole mess is a result of that decision.

Not that a company can't be a fuckup but I always give devs the benefit of the doubt. The publisher has thousands of employees and hundreds of leaders that it can tap if need be to assist a developer in trouble. Who doesn't realize that a multiplayer game requires anti-hack tools? Yeah they know but I wouldn't bet on them sitting there and explaining it. Never happen. Plus no matter what they said it would just cause a big shit storm. Why decision X and not decision Y. Are you incompetent? People don't realize that anti-hack tools are not one size fits all and there could be a thousand reasons why they couldn't implement it. Again if I had to guess it has to do with hurting their netcode to a point where gameplay is degraded.

It's just an opinion but it's an informed opinion.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
So uh, scavenging is useless, only lets you roll up extra blues or purples from unnamed mobs.

All loot tables datamined, channer breaks it down. : thedivision

High end loot tables are the same for every boss, they have a chance to drop everything so farm the fastest, only the challenge bosses have a chance to drop a specific set item.
So it's exactly like finding magical items in Diablo 3. Makes sense to be honest. Although the % to drop for HE/Set items should scale up with difficulty.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,047
11,514
Are challenge modes tuned for 4 people or does it scale depending on how many people are in your group? We tried with 3 people and got demolished.

All of us have 163GS but varying specs/perks. I've been rolling pulse/revive health kit and support type perks/talents. Any tips?
 

Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
<Gold Donor>
16,291
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Yeah this is right.

However people that don't do game development or follow it don't realize that the more you move to the server the more it has to communicate with players. Not just you but everyone, and every intractable object, around you. This may be fine with a very mature netcode massaged over 3-4 titles with at most an 18 player limit but it gets progressively more difficult as you add more detail to the world and how players can interact. Each one can compound the complexity required to achieve a desired result. That's why comparing a lot of games based solely on how many players can interact in multiplayer is tricky.

This game has been in production for about 5 years prior to release with full game development not starting until early 2013. 3 years is not enough time to push out a game that wanted so hard to push the envelope but that seems to be standard in the industry. They obviously ripped the guts out of the game at the direction of Ubisoft and when you do that you get unintended consequences and break shit. If I had to guess this whole mess is a result of that decision.

Not that a company can't be a fuckup but I always give devs the benefit of the doubt. The publisher has thousands of employees and hundreds of leaders that it can tap if need be to assist a developer in trouble. Who doesn't realize that a multiplayer game requires anti-hack tools? Yeah they know but I wouldn't bet on them sitting there and explaining it. Never happen. Plus no matter what they said it would just cause a big shit storm. Why decision X and not decision Y. Are you incompetent? People don't realize that anti-hack tools are not one size fits all and there could be a thousand reasons why they couldn't implement it. Again if I had to guess it has to do with hurting their netcode to a point where gameplay is degraded.

It's just an opinion but it's an informed opinion.
Or it just costs money, and after 2 stop starts with this disaster of a project, they just shipped shit in a box knowing full well they didn't have resources to spend any longer after a retarded development cycle with poor planning and a horrible producer attached to the project. They could have easily made this better. And the proof is in Diablo 3. Hell even Destiny doesn't have this level of BS (Albeit a far worse game)

They had some really awesome ideas here, and they screwed the pooch, and also lied their ass off to PC gamers saying anti-cheating code was in the game but not turned on in beta, and that was completely 100% bullshit. Just like anything else Ubisoft does. I get what you are saying, but your informed opinion should also realize 99% of it is scapegoated bullshit fed to the masses when the company itself is the one that poorly planned their title, shifted gears too much, didn't stay on track, didn't have the fvoresight to understand even the most basics of online gaming; Then you couple that with the bullshit lies? Welcome to the Division.

Which sucks. I actually like the game. There is no reason to play, and Ubi's track record sucks so I doubt they will get the funding they need besides barebones profit making.
 

Devlin

Golden Squire
832
9
Are challenge modes tuned for 4 people or does it scale depending on how many people are in your group? We tried with 3 people and got demolished.

All of us have 163GS but varying specs/perks. I've been rolling pulse/revive health kit and support type perks/talents. Any tips?
You'd need better gear than that to 3 man them.

On an unrelated note, there are now tons of people with high gear scores that fucking suck at the game.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,047
11,514
You'd need better gear than that to 3 man them.

On an unrelated note, there are now tons of people with high gear scores that fucking suck at the game.
Thanks, my google foo was failing me on number of required players.
 

spronk

FPS noob
22,618
25,666
normal mode and hard mode is tuned for number of players in the instance, more enemies spawn based on how many people are in it (so they are all easier to solo or 2 man). challenge and incursion is tuned for 4 players always, fewer people makes it harder
 

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
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Challenge mode is tuned for four players, though I did the Warrengate Challenge mode with three people last night. We all had gear scores of 200+ though, with full Sentry sets. The four piece bonus on Sentry > *. My Vector crits can reach over 211,000. No wipes, but each of us died maybe once or twice.

Also..... "How to make the mobs destroy the APC"r/thedivision
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,434
1,642
lol TCTD has the most creative exploiters im sure - they will find any way to avoid doing things the right way. Then again considering the mind numbing and lackluster shitshow the incursion is i cant really blame them. Im sure it took all of 2 days to come up with horde mode.
 

spronk

FPS noob
22,618
25,666
well all righty then

5716CFE64A7CBB0031


btw with new PS4 remote play on PC, you can sorta exploit on PS4 by running stuff like AHK on a PC while having a window stream your PS4. no code hacks, but the above I believe relies solely on the "click places really, really, really fast" exploit

someone summed it up best: the game is no longer PVP or PVE, its really player vs massive (patches)
 

DeadAgain!?_sl

shitlord
451
2
I really enjoyed my time with this game, until 30. I guess i'll pick it up for a year when there's two xpacs, a higher level cap, and a loot system that doesn't suck.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
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11,514
I hope they fix all this shit and ban every one of them, the drama will be glorious!
 

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
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lol TCTD has the most creative exploiters im sure - they will find any way to avoid doing things the right way. Then again considering the mind numbing and lackluster shitshow the incursion is i cant really blame them. Im sure it took all of 2 days to come up with horde mode.
It's an escalation of the last stage of Warrengate without big gunners, and a million more snipers. Run around the square and kill the spawns. SO HARD. /sarcasm