Twitch.tv

TBT-TheBigToe · Jun 15, 2020

They should should just have a limit on how often a song can be played based on total stream time, like you can only play a song (not on a preapproved list) once every 24hrs of stream time or something.

Zindan · Jun 15, 2020

Cybsled said:
Right, the biggest difference is usually the music is just playing in the background. Radio, Youtube, Spotify...you're listening to the music primarily and for the non-radio, you can keep listening to it all day. For a stream, they're playing it in the background while talking or playing a game. You arent watching the stream for the music, it's basically just window dressing. The music (usually) isn't the focus.

So while there is a point about using copyrighted music, it's more of a fair use type situation in the majority of cases or at bare minimum, it isn't owed anywhere near the same level of compensation as content delivery where music IS the content.

Are there provisions for that in copyright law or fair use? If not, then Amazon will have to pay up in someway. Considering how often youtube videos get "claimed" for having only seconds of copyrighted music in them, I think such provisions do not exist (hopefully someday they will). It doesn't matter how we view this situation, it is how it is, and if the record companies want to enforce their rights over the broadcast of their music, they absolutely can (whether it sucks or not).

kegkilla · Jun 15, 2020

Cybsled said:
Right, the biggest difference is usually the music is just playing in the background. Radio, Youtube, Spotify...you're listening to the music primarily and for the non-radio, you can keep listening to it all day. For a stream, they're playing it in the background while talking or playing a game. You arent watching the stream for the music, it's basically just window dressing. The music (usually) isn't the focus.

So while there is a point about using copyrighted music, it's more of a fair use type situation in the majority of cases or at bare minimum, it isn't owed anywhere near the same level of compensation as content delivery where music IS the content.

I don't think this argument holds weight considering even event venues such as bars and restaurants are required to license the music they play in the US.

Sorry Twitch thots but it's time to pay the piper.

slippery · Jun 15, 2020

Zindan said:
Are there provisions for that in copyright law or fair use? If not, then Amazon will have to pay up in someway. Considering how often youtube videos get "claimed" for having only seconds of copyrighted music in them, I think such provisions do not exist (hopefully someday they will). It doesn't matter how we view this situation, it is how it is, and if the record companies want to enforce their rights over the broadcast of their music, they absolutely can (whether it sucks or not).

Youtube claims aren't a good guide, because a ton of shit that gets strikes shouldn't. It's all just algorithms.

Part of fair use is actually potential effect of use upon the market. Are you actually stopping the content owner from earning revenue. It's most definitely an argument that could be made

China Bat Soup said:
I don't think this argument holds weight considering even event venues such as bars and restaurants are required to license the music they play in the US.

Sorry Twitch thots but it's time to pay the piper.

This is hilariously false. They aren't paying for the music that's on the radio they have on, and the cover band they have isn't paying the music label for the songs.

kegkilla · Jun 15, 2020

slippery said:
This is hilariously false. They aren't paying for the music that's on the radio they have on, and the cover band they have isn't paying the music label for the songs.

You're on a real roll today pal

Music Licensing for Bars and Restaurants: What You Need to Know

If you play recorded or live music in your bar, you need to be fully aware of all music licensing requirements. The price of not knowing and complying when required opens your business to legal clams by music rights holders such as ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC that could be very costly if your are sued

www.barbusinessowner.com

slippery · Jun 15, 2020

China Bat Soup said:
You're on a real roll today pal

Music Licensing for Bars and Restaurants: What You Need to Know

If you play recorded or live music in your bar, you need to be fully aware of all music licensing requirements. The price of not knowing and complying when required opens your business to legal clams by music rights holders such as ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC that could be very costly if your are sued

www.barbusinessowner.com

Do you even read the shit you post?

It is important to note that there is an exemption for needing a license in a public venue. In the US, under the Fairness in Music Licensing Act of 1998, businesses of a certain size (bars and restaurants under 3,750 square feet, stores under 2,000 square feet) are exempt from the paying licensing fees to songwriters, composers, and music publishers under the following three conditions:

The exception only covers music played from a radio or TV (not music played from a CD, MP3, or iPOD)

kegkilla · Jun 15, 2020

slippery said:
Do you even read the shit you post?

It is important to note that there is an exemption for needing a license in a public venue. In the US, under the Fairness in Music Licensing Act of 1998, businesses of a certain size (bars and restaurants under 3,750 square feet, stores under 2,000 square feet) are exempt from the paying licensing fees to songwriters, composers, and music publishers under the following three conditions:

The exception only covers music played from a radio or TV (not music played from a CD, MP3, or iPOD)

No bar or restaurant outside of a total dive is playing music from the radio, the place would be empty. 99% of locations are paying to license music. Half of bars these days have Touchtunes which licenses music. Cut your bullshit.

Cybsled · Jun 15, 2020

Who the fuck wants to listen to music at a restaurant anyways? Half the time it's generic shit that you can't hear over all the people talking anyways. It's like music in a supermarket. You don't even notice it's there unless it's some annoying ass shit like "ALLLL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS, IS YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU".

goishen · Jun 16, 2020

China Bat Soup said:
No bar or restaurant outside of a total dive is playing music from the radio, the place would be empty. 99% of locations are paying to license music. Half of bars these days have Touchtunes which licenses music. Cut your bullshit.

Look, dude.

You obviously aren't part of the solution. You're only part of the problem. You're the reason I say that copyright laws should be cut back to ten years. I knew some fucker like you would come along, and lo and behold. Here you are. I would say that I set a trap, but it wasn't intentional, whether you think so or not.

You still haven't addressed my point about using a Marvin Gaye song, and he died thirty six years ago. You still haven't addressed my point about keeping the fat asses sitting in their golden thrones over at BMI and Sony. Why? Because we have judges that think exactly like you do. (just so you know, that was not a compliment) They overthink everything, and don't think down to the common man. Fuck, I don't think that there's a common person in the legislature or SCOTUS. Whine and bitch enough as a major corporation and you'll give them anything just to make them go away. Whine and bitch as a person, "Fuck 'em, toss 'em in jail."

Because no judges, Democrat or Republican, have the gravitas to say to whiny little shit birds with their over-inflated egos ("BUT, BUT, BUT, IT'S OURS!!! *stamps foot and begins to cry*"), let me say it for the judges and the lawmakers.

Tough shit. Has to go into free domain sometime. And not after your grand kids are dead.

I would prefer to see it in their lifetime, so they can see the music (that the artists claim to love, BTW) evolve and change. Right now? Nahhh, fuck that, CHA-CHING. Pay me, bitch.

kegkilla · Jun 16, 2020

goishen said:
Look, dude.

You obviously aren't part of the solution. You're only part of the problem. You're the reason I say that copyright laws should be cut back to ten years. I knew some fucker like you would come along, and lo and behold. Here you are. I would say that I set a trap, but it wasn't intentional, whether you think so or not.

You still haven't addressed my point about using a Marvin Gaye song, and he died thirty six years ago. You still haven't addressed my point about keeping the fat asses sitting in their golden thrones over at BMI and Sony. Why? Because we have judges that think exactly like you do. (just so you know, that was not a compliment) Whine and bitch enough as a major corporation and you'll give them anything just to make them go away. Whine and bitch as a person, "Fuck 'em, toss 'em in jail."

Because no judges, Democrat or Republican, have the gravitas to say to whiny little shit birds with their over-inflated egos ("BUT, BUT, BUT, IT'S OURS!!! *stamps foot and begins to cry*"), let me say it for the judges and the lawmakers.

Tough shit. Has to go into free domain sometime. And not after your grand kids are dead.

I would prefer to see it in their lifetime, so they can see the music (that they claim to love, BTW) evolve and change. Right now? Nahhh, fuck that, CHA-CHING. Pay me, bitch.

What exactly is the point of this rambling trainwreck of a post? You're carrying on about how the little guy gets fucked by the justice system at the same time that you're complaining that Amazon, the 3rd largest company in the world, has to pay people to use their copyrighted music? Yeah that tracks. I don't even know what you're on about with this Marvin Gaye stuff.

I'd say it's a good thing that we still have judges who "think exactly like me" - logically and with even application of the law. Don't like the law? Change the law. It's funny, you're here making wild accusations of greed and corruption at the same time you're demanding that something you had nothing to do with creating be given to you for free. Who are greedy ones again?

goishen · Jun 16, 2020

China Bat Soup said:
What exactly is the point of this rambling trainwreck of a post? You're carrying on about how the little guy gets fucked by the justice system at the same time that you're complaining that Amazon, the 3rd largest company in the world, has to pay people to use their copyrighted music? Yeah that tracks. I don't even know what you're on about with this Marvin Gaye stuff.

I'd say it's a good thing that we still have judges who "think exactly like me" - logically and with even application of the law. Don't like the law? Change the law. It's funny, you're here making wild accusations of greed and corruption at the same time you're demanding that something you had nothing to do with creating be given to you for free. Who are greedy ones again?

And still, nothing to do with my previous points.

kegkilla · Jun 16, 2020

goishen said:
And still, nothing to do with my previous points.

Did you actually expect me to dig through this thread like Matlock to piece together your incoherent ramblings?

This is a weird fucking board.

goishen · Jun 16, 2020

Wow, I think I'll just jump into a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. And then call everyone weird, to boot.

yamikazo · Jun 16, 2020

Here's what the record labels are banking on:

The individual streamers won't (directly) be paying for copyrights. But Twitch will cater to their demands.

Rather than negotiate with Twitch in good faith, they've chosen to incite fear and risk a riot of the content creators.

End of the day, everyone except Jeff Bezos will be happy because this hurts his profit margins.

kegkilla · Jun 16, 2020

yamikazo said:
Here's what the record labels are banking on:

The individual streamers won't (directly) be paying for copyrights. But Twitch will cater to their demands.

Rather than negotiate with Twitch in good faith, they've chosen to incite fear and risk a riot of the content creators.

End of the day, everyone except Jeff Bezos will be happy because this hurts his profit margins.

Any evidence that the record industry hasn't been trying to negotiate with Twitch or is this just an ass pull?

Cybsled · Jun 16, 2020

If they have, they clearly wanted too much. Again, music on Twitch is not a focus for probably 99% of the site, so if the music companies are asking for Youtube level dollars, they are going to be laughed out of the room.

Quineloe · Jun 16, 2020

China Bat Soup said:
Any evidence that the record industry hasn't been trying to negotiate with Twitch or is this just an ass pull?

Why can't they do both? That is pretty much precisely how Youtube tried to strongarm the GEMA here a few years back. Unhappy how the negotiation went, youtube instead just started geoblocking thousands of music videos even though there were no takedown notices for those videos just to put public pressure on GEMA to get them to cave.

The only difference here being is that Youtube targeted all the viewers whereas here the content creators are.

kegkilla · Jun 16, 2020

Quineloe said:
Why can't they do both? That is pretty much precisely how Youtube tried to strongarm the GEMA here a few years back. Unhappy how the negotiation went, youtube instead just started geoblocking thousands of music videos even though there were no takedown notices for those videos just to put public pressure on GEMA to get them to cave.

View attachment 278294

The only difference here being is that Youtube targeted all the viewers whereas here the content creators are.

Yeah I don't think YouTube should be able to geoblock people's content because it *might* include music they couldn't license, that's ridiculous. But that's not what's happening here. The content that is getting pulled/disallowed from Twitch is content that does in fact contain copyrighted material. I understand that it's a negotiation tactic that's going to piss off a lot of end users - that's the point of it. You see it all the time in TV cable contract negotiations where a media company pulls it's channels from a package because they're not getting the rate they want in a new contract. Almost without fail though the subscribers start bitching and canceling and not long after they have a new contract. Is that what will happen here? I guess we'll see. But all this moaning about the record industry "asking for too much" is pretty nonsensical considering we, the public, have no idea what they are actually asking for other than they want more than they're getting now which is *nothing*.

Cybsled · Jun 16, 2020

We know the record industry is greedy as fuck from prior negotiations and lawsuits with other entities, so reasonable to assume they are trying the same tactics.

Noodleface · Jun 16, 2020

Well, I don't think copyright law will be solved in this thread that's for sure.

And guess what, it never will. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they'll cave to you. It's a business with a lot of money involved and they can easily sue your ass and bury yon if you fuck with them.

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