War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter

There's no winning though.

On the other hand, you have every frontline or assault player complaining that there are snipers everywhere, constantly being onetapped. T4 altyns is a good design against that, so far imo. Is it fully balanced, idk. Can increase the cost, audio reduction, or weight penalties /shrug; but it's existence far from it.. Iirc sniper AP ammo does 75 dmg, so while not a 1shot you fuck em up pbad.. At most I only ever really see 2 per 5 players in altyns.. And when you drop them, they're the saltiest cunts ever. The perfect bait bag.. Ontop of any relevancy of being a gunner, it's pretty much base requirement because infantry just rip you a new one otherwise. And while I don't have all the math in the world, currently it's considered pretty unprofitable to run high end gear over midtier from an average player because recuperating the cost

I'd probably be more onboard with it being a mistake if it was magical full body but when you can just run hp rounds and 3-4 shot legs despite any tier of armor. I've seen quite of few people who've shifted to m4 with hp rounds. Just carry a g18 with a 33rnd mag of hp, and drop them in less than a quarter of your mag. It stupid how fast they drop. Don't get me wrong, I've been on the other end where they're on the high ground and it's just all armor, or they peak with just their head.. But at that point it's where they're suppose to shine.

Though snipers with a t4 is a pain because soemtiems you gotta take the hit to return the hit.. And the t4 makes it an even trade in a lot of cases. I don't really fuck with t4 cus it fucks with my margins but I'll steal it.

I'd be pretty ok with them getting reduced vision too.. But as a sniper plinking altyn boys and killing them has been a great deal of fun.

And yeah teammates stealing your shit is lame. I think it should charge them if it's stuff you've bought.

Sv98, 3/6, AP, t3, g18 33rnd, and all my engagements are less than 400m, high average between the 200-300m. Personally I think sniping beyond 400m is ass in this game. Can literally just side step shots, and just becomes a waste of time.

Xevy said:

playing the core game (HZ Infantry) is the wrong way to play it.

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From my experience, if you want to win the game; HZ Infantry is the way to win or the meta.. Hearding cats to follow suit, or even remotely be present is a whole different story. Most games I have seen won, has been a roaming pack in the HZ constantly just murdering everything.. When I got my Clean Sweep achievement, it was all infantry on my team.. we had 2 havocs come against us, shot down almost immediately. Little birds weren't lasting at all. We had no attack pilots or humvees, there was one guy who kept driving large crates in and another pilot who was throwing small crates.. We had a pretty good protection group run on the APC. We over took every base, for shit and giggles because the infranty was just waxing everybody.. I was taking the build hammer and putting hedgehogs all over the inside of bases we took so when they got back their shit, it was all fucked up; and I got paid to do it.

If it means anything, I play on Central and East. I played on EU West?? on accident for half a day, and those felt more "natural" even games despite higher ping but felt like registry for my hits were way better or the players were way worse idk. Definitely a different playing experience for sure.

I've been apart of a handful of mastercrafted bases, but it's so damn rare. Majority of the time, there is always a glaring flaw that allows the horde to slip in.. so from my experience the whole fob winning is fractions compared to the horde. I feel like its far more difficult to get people to build "right" than it is to fodder the hz.. but the glaring issue; atleast from my experience is there is no real way to get everyone on your team to agree to do the one thing.. If they dont give us a SL or Commander Role, I hope they atleast give us a command station or something to draw/mark on the damn map for rally.


Far behind and your base is under attack? gonna keep delievering supplies or continous mortaring.. Lack of control of CZ despite HZ is right on top; gotta step out of the HZ and keep building! I swear, after counter-mortaring majority of my time using the mortar.. I am absolutely convinced that these guys are trying to reign in the mortar hits to random people in the field with it's ass explosion radius. I don't even think people understand the HZ and CZ thing either. HZ doubles your player numbers and CZ control which grants points is dictated by having the most players.. therefor, if you have the most players; you do not need to be in the HZ but instead keep the other team/s from having more.. if you do not have the CZ and are down players, stepping into the HZ increases your number by x2; but so many people are ass backwards. The bonus reward for being in the HZ is nice, but people just straight throw away their lives doing dumb shit; as you said dying in unreasonable spots, expecting seal team six level extractions.

I also feel like, while i've only done it a couple times.. you rush the known spot that a team will build and completely ruin their game til the first 30-50 points are on the board by just shooting builders and blowing up their supply chain. One of my friends is addicted to Humvee Landmining, and absolutely obliterates flatbeds.. often the fobs end up in the outer areas of the cz and we shift gears to sapping micro mortar bases. In other cases when we have our pilot, we've ran fobs over to enemy towers in the 0-0-0 to put it on the roof to prevent them from fobbing and taking the tower. Literally becomes a pig shoot because nobody is getting the relayed message that there is a fob blocking them from having a fob, and they keep coming in as builders and suppliers.. and the few people who do shoot can barely make sense of anything.

Xevy said:

I think that's bad design. 10 naked guys on mortars, 4 snipers, 3 spotters, 10 logi runners, 2 AA guys, and 4 guys with actual gear protecting the fob can beat full on HZ fights.

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I can honestly say I have NEVER seen that, but also my max squad of friends is 2-4 at any given time. I've seen games fumble because neither team wants to attack the winning team.. but 33 people huddled into a fob w/o calling it or having supplies ran and winning seems so wildly uncommon. I've definitely gotten points while the hz is between the other two teams but not win the game. While I don't think its a great idea, but I personally would love to see fobs get a better bonus, much like the HZ but capped.. but according to your experience you're getting wins by keeping 33 people inside fobs.. I'm getting stuck with 10 people in the fob, glaring open hop overs getting waxed, 8 dudes on flatbeds, and 4 supply helos.. meanwhile, I fight off 12 people in the tower and not a single one shows up to help me and I eventually die out because of resources and/or a misstep.. but atleast we got another fob up and another contribution of supplies to a completely different fob haha.

And I'm not even a fan of the deathball, I think the games that go 100-2-4 are the worst. They're so boring, they're boring to be on the 100 team, they're boring to be on the -2 team. The most fun is when its like 30-59-45; you're 30 and now you're on the biggest comeback of the century.. or you're fighting between a 97-94 and any critical decision can become the decider.

Hekotat said:

The first week was great, now the difference in armor levels is so great it is making it difficult to enjoy. I'm just getting shit on by no lifers with maxed out everything.

What is the point of the starting sniper? It always takes 2 headshots to kill someone, does it just fire paintballs? I put 6 shots on a guy with level 4 armor and it didnt' even take his helmet and he insta-killed me from 200m with a galil.

That and people stealing your kits when you're downed is really making it lose it's appeal.

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3rd complaint is a little silly. Unless you die out solo, rarely happens. And is one of the many things to unique, like a looter shooter made into battlefield.

The first sniper has been covered, same thing everyone says on youtube. Just done use it at all. Spend 2 games doing a good bit of spotting from a tower or on the fringes and youll unlock the SKS.

The lv 3/4 armors still go down reasonably fast if you are using a decent gun w/ a real magazine/fire rate. I had a little trouble with the AMP 9 but I still only have 20 rounders.

Re Mko, to a degree I agree, but with this being a more simulation battlefield, I think you gotta look at it more like an rpg or something almost. Everything being samey, made people get tired amongst other problems with Bfield. Plenty of times being a sneaky breaky I'll still down some high tier kit if it's not a rolling squad even w/ the base gun. Outside of sniper and shotguns, it's not like they can't work. And I really appreciate some of the end weapons like the .50bmg do actually stand out. And it's really not had to have them inside a week or two if you actually focus on them. Most folks did like me I think and lured in by the vehicles or otherwise working on a bit of everytthing. Getting stuff to lv 7/10 whatever for big hammer, defib, igla, etc makes sense. But on wipe I'll be focusing heavily on either rushing galil or sniper life.

Which one other element I wanted to touch on. Yes the game lets you do almost whatever and get some level of success. But it's apparent that certain playstyles/roles are still going to be the much better time to xp/$ reward. Bob's tend to be the folks that can't hang, some are great architects, many suck even at that. I wish they could make quality fobbits stand out more for rewards. Or tone down kill rewards a bit. I can build for 10minutes, and if I just grab an AR in a busy area 3-4 kills and I've well exceeded the bob hammering away. Snipers tend to want to go off solo but then just catch a random other sniper, bumble into a 2-3 man roaming. Or generally dont do as well if they are actually with the infantry front line just off to the side or behind seems to generally perform a lot better and actually get revives.

Just have to see what they do w/ the patch notes, tiny changes, or if they will actually make decently big changes to shake things up while they are in ER and not launch.

gauze said:

I've been apart of a handful of mastercrafted bases, but it's so damn rare. Majority of the time, there is always a glaring flaw that allows the horde to slip in.. so from my experience the whole fob winning is fractions compared to the horde. I feel like its far more difficult to get people to build "right" than it is to fodder the hz.. but the glaring issue; atleast from my experience is there is no real way to get everyone on your team to agree to do the one thing.. If they dont give us a SL or Commander Role, I hope they atleast give us a command station or something to draw/mark on the damn map for rally.


Far behind and your base is under attack? gonna keep delievering supplies or continous mortaring.. Lack of control of CZ despite HZ is right on top; gotta step out of the HZ and keep building! I swear, after counter-mortaring majority of my time using the mortar.. I am absolutely convinced that these guys are trying to reign in the mortar hits to random people in the field with it's ass explosion radius. I don't even think people understand the HZ and CZ thing either. HZ doubles your player numbers and CZ control which grants points is dictated by having the most players.. therefor, if you have the most players; you do not need to be in the HZ but instead keep the other team/s from having more.. if you do not have the CZ and are down players, stepping into the HZ increases your number by x2; but so many people are ass backwards. The bonus reward for being in the HZ is nice, but people just straight throw away their lives doing dumb shit; as you said dying in unreasonable spots, expecting seal team six level extractions.

I also feel like, while i've only done it a couple times.. you rush the known spot that a team will build and completely ruin their game til the first 30-50 points are on the board by just shooting builders and blowing up their supply chain. One of my friends is addicted to Humvee Landmining, and absolutely obliterates flatbeds.. often the fobs end up in the outer areas of the cz and we shift gears to sapping micro mortar bases. In other cases when we have our pilot, we've ran fobs over to enemy towers in the 0-0-0 to put it on the roof to prevent them from fobbing and taking the tower. Literally becomes a pig shoot because nobody is getting the relayed message that there is a fob blocking them from having a fob, and they keep coming in as builders and suppliers.. and the few people who do shoot can barely make sense of anything.

I can honestly say I have NEVER seen that, but also my max squad of friends is 2-4 at any given time. I've seen games fumble because neither team wants to attack the winning team.. but 33 people huddled into a fob w/o calling it or having supplies ran and winning seems so wildly uncommon. I've definitely gotten points while the hz is between the other two teams but not win the game. While I don't think its a great idea, but I personally would love to see fobs get a better bonus, much like the HZ but capped.. but according to your experience you're getting wins by keeping 33 people inside fobs.. I'm getting stuck with 10 people in the fob, glaring open hop overs getting waxed, 8 dudes on flatbeds, and 4 supply helos.. meanwhile, I fight off 12 people in the tower and not a single one shows up to help me and I eventually die out because of resources and/or a misstep.. but atleast we got another fob up and another contribution of supplies to a completely different fob haha.

And I'm not even a fan of the deathball, I think the games that go 100-2-4 are the worst. They're so boring, they're boring to be on the 100 team, they're boring to be on the -2 team. The most fun is when its like 30-59-45; you're 30 and now you're on the biggest comeback of the century.. or you're fighting between a 97-94 and any critical decision can become the decider.

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One complaint I have is sans a littlebird willing to waste the $ to bring in a special request. It's really rough to need something and obtain it if you didnt hump it in. I wish there was some kind of method of supplying the base that lets people buy/get what is needed. Out of ammo? Good luck getting a pilot to bring just that unless your doing some insane smokestack camp. I'll do stuff like bring a truck of AA missiles and ineveitably get poor target options. But the second you need them, you are boned unless someone spends 5 minutes driving them from base, or you die and race back in a helo or something. Though for the AA specifically I just wish they were one row shorter so you could choose to be near naked but at least carry 2-3 of them with the biggest bag you get before the extra weapon sling ones.

Granted just i instant on demand AA would probably be it's own problem. But at least expend base "ammo" or something and be able to rearm a few grenades or basic rifle ammo.

Sludig said:

3rd complaint is a little silly. Unless you die out solo, rarely happens. And is one of the many things to unique, like a looter shooter made into battlefield.

The first sniper has been covered, same thing everyone says on youtube. Just done use it at all. Spend 2 games doing a good bit of spotting from a tower or on the fringes and youll unlock the SKS.

The lv 3/4 armors still go down reasonably fast if you are using a decent gun w/ a real magazine/fire rate. I had a little trouble with the AMP 9 but I still only have 20 rounders.

Re Mko, to a degree I agree, but with this being a more simulation battlefield, I think you gotta look at it more like an rpg or something almost. Everything being samey, made people get tired amongst other problems with Bfield. Plenty of times being a sneaky breaky I'll still down some high tier kit if it's not a rolling squad even w/ the base gun. Outside of sniper and shotguns, it's not like they can't work. And I really appreciate some of the end weapons like the .50bmg do actually stand out. And it's really not had to have them inside a week or two if you actually focus on them. Most folks did like me I think and lured in by the vehicles or otherwise working on a bit of everytthing. Getting stuff to lv 7/10 whatever for big hammer, defib, igla, etc makes sense. But on wipe I'll be focusing heavily on either rushing galil or sniper life.

Which one other element I wanted to touch on. Yes the game lets you do almost whatever and get some level of success. But it's apparent that certain playstyles/roles are still going to be the much better time to xp/$ reward. Bob's tend to be the folks that can't hang, some are great architects, many suck even at that. I wish they could make quality fobbits stand out more for rewards. Or tone down kill rewards a bit. I can build for 10minutes, and if I just grab an AR in a busy area 3-4 kills and I've well exceeded the bob hammering away. Snipers tend to want to go off solo but then just catch a random other sniper, bumble into a 2-3 man roaming. Or generally dont do as well if they are actually with the infantry front line just off to the side or behind seems to generally perform a lot better and actually get revives.

Just have to see what they do w/ the patch notes, tiny changes, or if they will actually make decently big changes to shake things up while they are in ER and not launch.

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Doesn't happen often my ass. 75% of my revives I end up with someone else's kit with no ammo or mags.

Really ahitty when you dump 20k on a load out and lose it quickly.

I want to like this game, and I've had fun but at the moment I think its a little confused on what it wants to be, or more accurately it wants to be too many things and is having problems working out how to balance all of it. It feels like it wants to be ARMA Lite, Battlefield, Tarkov, and Planetside all at the same time and trying to balance that mess seems herculean.

The game is on one hand a tactical sim lite that wants to lean into the skill based mechanics, however the grind to unlocks being very tedious and actually having significant effect on performance means that people who no life the game will have access to better kit that makes a skill gap backseat to a gear gap. You can be good as shit, but if you are late to the season and someone has ground their T4 and weapon attachments they will be more accurate and tank a good bit more fire. So, even if someone outplays them into an ambush there is a half decent chance they will be able to turn and return fire to win the engagement. I watched a video that put bullets to kill T1 armor at 7, vs 12 for the T4 armor. I can't remember the exact weapon (think it was the standard FMJ AK) but thats not a small difference. AP Ammo changes that mildly (oddly, T3 and T4 btk is same with AP) but AP ammo unlock is another rather deep grind. Add to that how wildly inaccurate early weapons are w/o good scopes and attachments, drilling someone with all your shots can be difficult. I find it amusing it was easier for me to full auto accurately at close range in real life than it is in game. Add to that the unlock trees not even giving most 'jobs' decent weapons to deal with it is another issue, why is shooting bobs so easy? Cause builders have to grind assault to get comparable guns.

Anyway, the 'skill based gameplay' is undermined by the grind to unlock system. The guy who earlier said that unlocks should be a lot more horizontal than vertical I believe is correct in spirit. This game though seems to have a lot of its longevity loop tied up with grinding for unlocks. Getting people to log in to chase gear unlocks is a motivating factor and I believe the devs have grabbed that lever in an attempt to extend the longevity of the game. I believe though its likely to cause a large player drop off like we see with other seasonal wiping games. People will show up for the 'fun times' of scrub war, then fuck off to play something else until later.

Another problem is how the unlock system interacts with the money economy system and how to balance the two against each other. I would believe you try and balance the economy system around heavy gear being high risk, but also potential for big plays and really pushing to win. As it currently stands though, the money economy doesn't really seem to be an issue for your hard core players and they quickly get access to significantly better gear and this snowballs them into being able to stomp bobs and other lower geared players that rarely puts them into poverty. Especially since the money is persistent between matches. Its easy to grind up a warchest and coast on it for some time once you've paid for your unlocks. The two systems seem almost superfluous to each other and end up being doubly punishing to the casual trying to afford kits and unlocks and not really affecting the hard core player in any meaningful way. I think the money economy though is the least important problem, and perhaps the easiest to fix with some balancing. Though as pointed out, why attack helicopters are cheaper than a kitted rifle is.... an odd choice.

Lastly is the incentive structures in the game. How the games mechanics inform play, and in my opinion at the moment its a bit of a mess. You have 33 people on your team, but it is very likely not all 33 of them are trying to win. There is a very likely chance that someone on your team is just trying to grind unlocks in whatever 'job' they want to pursue that day. So, is your team doing a hotzone push to deathball to victory, but for some reason a bunch of assholes are sitting around building shit and running supplies? Great, I don't care. I'm trying to grind out my support unlocks so I can finally get the fucking SAM launcher, so I'm just going to sit here and build shit and run cargo and submit it cause its the most consistent way to get my support XP up. Want to get into good recon gear? Well, I am going to sit around and spot shit all day e'ery day for cash and recon XP, tyvm. My friend wanted to unlock tanks, and I apologize to any EU players on his team, cause all he did was drive Urals to grind that driver XP. Only time he quit was if we all hopped in Discord to do coordinated squads. Why do you think there is the completely worthless cache box spam all over fobs? Gotta get that pilot XP yo. So, its very likely a good number of your team would like to win, sure. But their not going to stop doing their unlocks to make it happen.

This also plays out in a meta way with team dynamics. You'd think it would make sense for the two losing teams to go gang up on the winning team in order to try and get back into the game. Unfortunately I have found that rarely seems to happen. Its much more fun and rewarding to just keep shooting Blue, cause you get the same XP and Money per kill for people whose base has been violated and are running around half naked with hammer trying to salvage what's left of their dignity. Kicking the losing team is more personally rewarding, both in fun and XP/money than it is to try and take down the harder team. Winning rewards are nice, but their not really worth enough to keep me from camping Lonestar over and over. One way to fix this would be to increase rewards for damaging the team that's in the lead, but that risks making balance even more awkward as it can actually result in the winners getting less comparatively for winning.

The game has a lot of potential and ambition, but I have some doubts that the devs will be able to balance all the different directions they have systems tugging in and I do not envy them the task. I've had fun with the game, but have also found it highly frustrating when the system design seems to involve tedium and getting stomped on in order to grow up enough to be a real boy able to fight back. Where I think the game may really shine though is in the community servers and organized play. A lot of the in game stuff seems designed around coordinated combined arms, but the tools and incentives aren't in the game yet. The guy who mentioned earlier how tough it was to get a helo pilot to drop you the needed resupplies? I'd love to do that in game and if I saw your chat I'd make it happen, but atm the tools to facilitate it don't really exist. Community servers with better mods and coordination tools that have players trying to work together to win and not just grind money and unlocks could make for a hell of a game that brings back memories of BF2142 at its peak. The potential is there.

Hopefully the devs work all this out, but they've set for themselves quite the task.

Hekotat said:

Doesn't happen often my ass. 75% of my revives I end up with someone else's kit with no ammo or mags.

Really ahitty when you dump 20k on a load out and lose it quickly.

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Someone else reply made me think I missed did you say friendlies looting it? If friendly I think once in all the time playing. If your in a fob or somewhere deep among the enemy and you are sitting 5 minutes for a rez, sure I guess. But if your directly within a mob or squad, those rezzes usually inside a minute, or the whole group gets wiped.

Did plenty of those 20-25k loadouts tonight, some turned into 50k profit, but several also got lost quickly to really stupid shit. Like just arrive near my fob to swat helos and they have a stingray wasting the $5k to blow up my $3k humvee (albeit it was half full of rockets so even trade since I was out of it)

I have a hard time seeing the general problem, but I might be closer in the no life category than the casual; nor a slouch when it comes to point and click. The argument of balance, cost(assault vehicles a fraction of the gun price just seems silly), and time investment is all fair.. but realistically most content creators i've watched and the experience I have had.. I have access to all the rifles minus the fal and all the smg minus the vector, haven't bought a single one of them.. MP9 is pretty goated and the AK74 serves me well for a cheap kit.. can easily turn a 10k Assault kit into a 90k+ run.. but while you get power for all the high unlocks, the cost to reward ratio is buns.. Might get more wins but you make far less money. Most of the people I talk and listen to about money go brr, prioritize either A) Cheaper Kits or B) Buying their team abunch of Vectors because you get $perKill.. and you can also bring in ammo supply flatbeds for all your mortarmen and get the bonus cash per kill.

I've used the FAL, does it rip; absolutely.. would I spend 3x the amount I did on the AK, no.. not really. I'd honestly use the mosin still, but a 10 mag is pretty nice.. but blows dicks for the backpack. 1x2 for 10 bullets, when a 1x2 can be 40 bullets and only the mosin toploads.. but its why I run a 33rnd over a 50rnd for the G18. 1x2 for 17 extra rounds in the magazine, or 1x1 x2 for 16 extra total rounds. Even when it comes to Armor, I just can't see the T4 being worth its weight in cash unless you know you have the support network to back you. I often run 100-200 meters from the mainpack picking off the inc.. so T4 is pure ass.. I've been entertaining T2 armor and T3 helmet so I can live most oneshot headshots from snipers.. but my cost margins are minimized on deaths. After 5 or 6 engagements, my armor is often toasted anyways and at that point it doesn't even matter what I have on.

I can't say I have had trouble killing T4 players, does it take a little more; obviously.. but I would easily say 90% o the player base runs out in the open like dinguses and becomes a pigshoot on anyone in that open area.. you move cover to cover and majority of the time experiencing a T4 opponent will be cake.. sure you'll run into the occasion where you're locked in a building with him and you might lose more often than win, but the ability to outplay isn't out of the picture. I die more to the constant surge of enemy player flooding my location than I do to one v ones.. You put a little counter-strike in your step, outthink the comms, and you win 1v3 and 1v4 pretty fucking easy. As far as sniping goes, you can plink a shot off the T4 guy and ignore him for awhile and STILL get the assist; how long after I have no idea but I have used that "assist" popup so many times to know certain people were dead without even looking at them anymore.

I have heard that after about 18 Recon, it's a pain in the ass.. I don't remember the math but I think someone said like a 140 headshot kills or 260 something spots.. Assault being another one because the variety of ways you get other class xp is more than the amount of ways you get it for Assault.. and that getting Driver 35 is pretty ass.. but personally, I just play the game.. shoot the people, bitch when my teammates do dumb shit, and enjoy the sandbox.. as that is the bread and butter of this game. Whatever levels more is a testiment to my prioritized style of play.. Load a bag full of stims for 200?$ each, stim a person for 500$ or 1000$ for the HZ and watch your team move around like crackheads.

My problem is more arty seems to break the teamwork mythos, the thermal scope is crazy powerful but spotting in general is too, suppling infantry is a pain, and zerging outweighs basing most times. I think Artillery and other FoB arsnel should req a network to operate, as in their own ammunitions pool pulled from the FoB by a person to load into the artys similar to that of the arty tank. It's a mixed bag, but watching idiots just blast mortars depleting the overall pool is awful, I'd be less upset if it was him plus one other doing the garbage shooting but also mortar spam is terrible too.. while I don't dislike it inherently, I would feel much better knowing that it was a group of people proficiently working together to cause the chaos.. not some dude who hopped into a mortar with no gear investment or contribution firing off mortars with no interest in counter-mortaring. Spotting is crazy powerful, that is all. No way to really know what infantry needs, or the weight of power it is to provide things to the infrantrymen; Would be pretty sweet if you could drag supply crates, would make sandbagging way more important as you'd begin to create temporary strongholds with dropped supplies... and feels there is no real way to beat the hz zerg, even calling the drill can result into your base being pushed over; but in all fairness, that could just be a learning process and shift as the playerbase becomes more proficient.