War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter

Sludig

Potato del Grande
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13,393
I kinda think being able to easily set up thermal/grenade launcher ships is probably a bad idea. Really don't see themselves as that bad. Spot folks a little quicker but even with the standard randomly panning around I'll spot folks I don't see right away.

Silly but maybe kinda nice if you could know your spotted.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,531
14,133
Thermals always ruins games, it should be useless during the day. Not infinity spotting distance and I don't know why devs can't figure this out, especially in a game like this.
 

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,238
488
Thermals working in the day is fine.. I just wish they'd switch it to active spotting rather than the debuff spotting that they have now.. personally think that should be all of spotting.

Active being they have to be currently staring and looking at the target; not mark it and move on.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,531
14,133
Thermals working in the day is fine.. I just wish they'd switch it to active spotting rather than the debuff spotting that they have now.. personally think that should be all of spotting.

Active being they have to be currently staring and looking at the target; not mark it and move on.

There should be ZERO minimap spotting, unless maybe squad only. That's the only way I think it could be balanced and still work.
 

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,238
488
There should be ZERO minimap spotting, unless maybe squad only. That's the only way I think it could be balanced and still work.
Not that I don't disagree fully, but in terms of "casualizing" the experience; I can understand why it exists.. but I would feel much better if i'm being pinged by someone who is actively looking at me than someone who looked at me 10s ago.. let alone, getting rewarded for looking at me 1 minute ago.. and dying to the opposite team.

spotting as solely a spotter is inherently fun so far in this game, and thermals give it something to look forward to. I just don't think it needs to be as strong as it is, because it honestly doesn't have to be. Active spotting would tone it down but still make it engaging.
 
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Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
Not that I don't disagree fully, but in terms of "casualizing" the experience; I can understand why it exists.. but I would feel much better if i'm being pinged by someone is is actively looking at me than someone who looked at me 10s ago.. let alone, getting rewarded for looking at me 1 minute ago.
Not having a in game visible dot already is far more hardcore than the other casual games, and plenty of players you will see oblivious to the map. If your on any kind of open roof/window just assume you are spotted.

Would be very rarely used if it had to be held and maintained. But maybe a mechanic of moving more than 10-15 yards from where spotted would be fair way
 

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,238
488
Not having a in game visible dot already is far more hardcore than the other casual games, and plenty of players you will see oblivious to the map. If your on any kind of open roof/window just assume you are spotted.
hm? I think I'm saying that I understand why having a marked dot on the minimap is in the game because it helps casualize the experience for players.. and I get it, there are people who even with the clue are absolutely oblivious.. but it's inherent existence makes the game less hardcore as well as a total of other thing to do in the game that benefits the team holistically.

Would be very rarely used if it had to be held and maintained. But maybe a mechanic of moving more than 10-15 yards from where spotted would be fair way
I think you'd be surprised. If it brings in money and you are not actively dying; why would it not be used? People deliever supplies to dead bases all the time, why? when I asked its because it still makes money. At the moment, spotting is probably one of the top 3 money earners w/o any sort of exploit or cheese(-thermals). Incredibly low investment, minimal participation, pure profit. People would still want spotters for mortaring, spotting for inc for fobs will still be relevant.

Spotting in its current iteration just makes me think too much of TPS's.. Peak a window without actually peaking the window. Hell, CoD you can still atleast shoot the UAV. In WD? once you're spotted you're spotted for a few seconds, and I don't even know how long after the spot has worn off you still get rewarded.. and it doesn't even have to be your team.. again if they were actively doing it, or I kill the spotter; there is a better "reward" in it.

And don't get me wrong, spotting in this game is pretty fun.. nothing like getting somewhere silly; watching people die falling out of helis or getting ran over by their own team.. and you're just in some off shoot angle, your threat is near zero because you're not a combatant.. eventually pretending to be a bush .. then eventually being Johnny 5
 
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Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
hm? I think I'm saying that I understand why having a marked dot on the minimap is in the game because it helps casualize the experience for players.. and I get it, there are people who even with the clue are absolutely oblivious.. but it's inherent existence makes the game less hardcore as well as a total of other thing to do in the game that benefits the team holistically.


I think you'd be surprised. If it brings in money and you are not actively dying; why would it not be used? People deliever supplies to dead bases all the time, why? when I asked its because it still makes money. At the moment, spotting is probably one of the top 3 money earners w/o any sort of exploit or cheese(-thermals). Incredibly low investment, minimal participation, pure profit. People would still want spotters for mortaring, spotting for inc for fobs will still be relevant.

Spotting in its current iteration just makes me think too much of TPS's.. Peak a window without actually peaking the window. Hell, CoD you can still atleast shoot the UAV. In WD? once you're spotted you're spotted for a few seconds, and I don't even know how long after the spot has worn off you still get rewarded.. and it doesn't even have to be your team.. again if they were actively doing it, or I kill the spotter; there is a better "reward" in it.

And don't get me wrong, spotting in this game is pretty fun.. nothing like getting somewhere silly; watching people die falling out of helis or getting ran over by their own team.. and you're just in some off shoot angle, your threat is near zero because you're not a combatant.. eventually pretending to be a bush .. then eventually being Johnny 5
1st part was more general partially meant for hecko. It could be worse and full bf giant marker.


People wouldn't do it if you had to stay focused in I think because you would assume you'd make far less money because you can't tag a squad and 5 birds in a minute. Not to mention less able to alternate snipping and spotting if it was more of a target painting effect.

Trucks is a bit different argument, a little money not that crazy, more importantly just one of the only decent ways to make driver xp for quote some time.

I think spotting itself doesn't need nerfed but the $ does. Getting 15k for spotting a giant havok first B4 it blows up seems kinda silly for example.
 
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Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
/random after not being on a few days really hoping to unlock maaws tonight and really go to town. After a few videos thinking that or in a pinch RPG might be better little bird aa than the actual iglas. Zero chance I reach the GL B4 wipe. Still kinda suspect at the guys that had it a week ago. With the experience curve and limited ways to build supply xp fast short of going Terminator cqb with the m249, think a lot of those early folks figured one way or another to boost.
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
9,761
4,882
/random after not being on a few days really hoping to unlock maaws tonight and really go to town. After a few videos thinking that or in a pinch RPG might be better little bird aa than the actual iglas. Zero chance I reach the GL B4 wipe. Still kinda suspect at the guys that had it a week ago. With the experience curve and limited ways to build supply xp fast short of going Terminator cqb with the m249, think a lot of those early folks figured one way or another to boost.
There's a couple ways to boost support:

Roll Shotgun/LMG
FOB 24/7
Buy Giga Weapons/Armor/Tools and have people purchase them then use them to kill others. That's #1 for support exp and moneys.
Not sure if this is driver or support or both, but we had URAL's dropping multiple small crates with 1 singular bandage in FOB's last night.
Build a CIWS/Mortars and let the shitters blast with them. If you build/supply it with ammunition you get support exp.

I kind of wish they'd add some nominal support exp for repairing shit, but that's very exploitable. I just hate going around hitting all the crispy HESCOs after a 15 minute mortar attack for 0 exp.

Also I can say right now that an AP 5.56 round to a 4 chest armor through a Little Bird window does 6.6 damage. And I can say, with 100% certainty, there's a deflection/ricochet mechanic built into the glass for lower velocity so that's where the failure to penetrate problem comes from. Shit like 7.62R has high velocity so you hit everytime you fire at them. This somewhat makes sense if they didn't want rifle/small arms gibbing little bird pilots, but if it takes 15 hits on a target I have a 35% chance of hitting, probably less, due to ballistics it's pretty rough.

I get not wanting littlebird pilots to instantly die, but you honestly have a better chance of dumping 175 AP bullets into the chopper and killing it than killing the pilot reasonably. Luckily the deathball meta most people are so starved to shoot at the enemy team's who are fobbing each other that all 25 guys in zone just turn and blast it away until it has to repair. I'd say Little Bird helis in my games have gone from the #1 HZ issue to nearly negligible. It is interesting seeing the strats change as people unlock things.

Obviously the GL Bird is the "meta" now, but 90% of them are retarded and hang off the side instead of shooting out the passenger window so you just shoot the fuck out of the fleshbag. All they need to do is add drastic lob to the GL rather than point-and-click from 200m up that is right now. We had some guy and his friend go like 60-15 last night and those 15 deaths were literally all helicopter crashes because we shot him down/killed his pilot. Dude probably lost 60-80k that game. Huge stuff.
 

Mao

Trakanon Raider
758
1,793
Why would it be disabled during day..
My experience with thermals is limited, mostly to Iraq and the Mojave, which are deserts and not the best usage cases during the day (deserts are hot, yo). I didn't not play with individual thermals in AFG, only the ones on my turret.

Anyway... unless they have improved remarkably (and the newest ones I saw in the Mojave were very impressive at night, so they might have since I retired) they are not the I win button they are here for various reasons. They seem to have been toned down in game from what I saw in videos of them in beta, but.... Thermals, especially during the day can get a lot of false positives and a lot of 'background noise' from fires, vehicle wrecks, concrete, animals, etc. All kinds of things mess with ambient temperatures and they can be blinded by other heat sources, similar to how bright light sources can blind NVGs. During daytime, especially hot days, the ambient temp makes the temperature differential much closer which makes it more 'washed out' looking and limits range and clarity.

Currently, as they are in game if you see any heat source you can almost be sure its a player and with a quick hover over it the spotting mechanic confirms. So, without intervening terrain or ghillies they are pretty much impossible to counter. The spotting mechanic, in general, is cool but works way to well with just sweeping with your lens until you see a blip, backtrack to hover over it and there ya go. Spots. The big advantage in game of thermals is I can skip the scanning process usually and just see by contrast where people are where at least with the rest of the recon kit I have to do the sweep and scan.

Also, seeing even more cheaters. Most obvious one was last night, guy was 21-1-1 and was just running around assaulting with an SVD. No assists other than that one, so not spotting or anything. Examples of stuff like at least 4 head shots on 3 people in a Kodiak in less than a second, while moving. I know he hit me twice and my gunner and passenger were both dead before we could tell each other over discord. Timestamps were near instantaneous. Same dude was running up the stairs of a tower while I was hiding 200m back in bushes. I fired into a different tower only to get double tapped on him as he's running up the tower stairs. Needless to say we reported him.

Its really getting bad, and I know people say its Early Access and they are letting the cheaters run to gather info to build better counters, but lets be honest. The only thing early access is their access to my wallet before calling it an actual launch. They need to do something about the cheaters or at least acknowledge them and give some sort of plan and promise, otherwise this game is going to start to suffer. Once again, I'm eyeballing community run servers as the way this game survives.
 

Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
My experience with thermals is limited, mostly to Iraq and the Mojave, which are deserts and not the best usage cases during the day (deserts are hot, yo). I didn't not play with individual thermals in AFG, only the ones on my turret.

Anyway... unless they have improved remarkably (and the newest ones I saw in the Mojave were very impressive at night, so they might have since I retired) they are not the I win button they are here for various reasons. They seem to have been toned down in game from what I saw in videos of them in beta, but.... Thermals, especially during the day can get a lot of false positives and a lot of 'background noise' from fires, vehicle wrecks, concrete, animals, etc. All kinds of things mess with ambient temperatures and they can be blinded by other heat sources, similar to how bright light sources can blind NVGs. During daytime, especially hot days, the ambient temp makes the temperature differential much closer which makes it more 'washed out' looking and limits range and clarity.

Currently, as they are in game if you see any heat source you can almost be sure its a player and with a quick hover over it the spotting mechanic confirms. So, without intervening terrain or ghillies they are pretty much impossible to counter. The spotting mechanic, in general, is cool but works way to well with just sweeping with your lens until you see a blip, backtrack to hover over it and there ya go. Spots. The big advantage in game of thermals is I can skip the scanning process usually and just see by contrast where people are where at least with the rest of the recon kit I have to do the sweep and scan.

Also, seeing even more cheaters. Most obvious one was last night, guy was 21-1-1 and was just running around assaulting with an SVD. No assists other than that one, so not spotting or anything. Examples of stuff like at least 4 head shots on 3 people in a Kodiak in less than a second, while moving. I know he hit me twice and my gunner and passenger were both dead before we could tell each other over discord. Timestamps were near instantaneous. Same dude was running up the stairs of a tower while I was hiding 200m back in bushes. I fired into a different tower only to get double tapped on him as he's running up the tower stairs. Needless to say we reported him.

Its really getting bad, and I know people say its Early Access and they are letting the cheaters run to gather info to build better counters, but lets be honest. The only thing early access is their access to my wallet before calling it an actual launch. They need to do something about the cheaters or at least acknowledge them and give some sort of plan and promise, otherwise this game is going to start to suffer. Once again, I'm eyeballing community run servers as the way this game survives.
I was kinda troll asking before I jumped on his answer if he said they don't work during day. I own and hunt with them, higher resolution unit that is likely better than anything gulf war 1. Though desert daytime is certainly on of the worst case scenarios. Here stateside works really well for spotting in brush/shadows unless it's heavily rained and the critter is good and wet too. It's actually getting used heavily in Ukraine day time, though that's ideal environment short of the Arctic. Theirs that we've seen publicly is roughly commercial grade, I'm certain current Gen military is even more absurd. It's improving fast in the last decade, my 640 resolution while still towards the top end on raw sensor size is actually kinda antique now, similar Chinese units going for 2k vs the 5.5 I'm into it for.

No denying it is "better" in game than the scope, I just don't think absurdly do any further than just how good spring is in general. Though it's certainly expensive a fair but over 1k. Millionaire sweaties don't care but I've had recon buils hitting 25k where I'm like ok got to roll this back a bit in case I just get a bad air drop or whatever. United there's a spotting rework I still think it's in the realm of fixable. Halve rewards, up the basic non binocular to 500 and go up from there. More likely to have a couple than 10 people glassing. Though I suppose it's an argument for why maybe there should be at least some class lock, because I've brought the 150 scope when running a cqb m249 just to have a way to soak up some extra when I'm further from the action.


Strong community servers is certainly the only real answer I agree. I can't think of any popular games at all that didn't have some kind of cheater problem. Even if they have drm etc. Bf6 with it's mental level anti cheat still has a lot.
 

Mao

Trakanon Raider
758
1,793
I was kinda troll asking before I jumped on his answer if he said they don't work during day. I own and hunt with them, higher resolution unit that is likely better than anything gulf war 1. Though desert daytime is certainly on of the worst case scenarios. Here stateside works really well for spotting in brush/shadows unless it's heavily rained and the critter is good and wet too. It's actually getting used heavily in Ukraine day time, though that's ideal environment short of the Arctic. Theirs that we've seen publicly is roughly commercial grade, I'm certain current Gen military is even more absurd. It's improving fast in the last decade, my 640 resolution while still towards the top end on raw sensor size is actually kinda antique now, similar Chinese units going for 2k vs the 5.5 I'm into it for.

No denying it is "better" in game than the scope, I just don't think absurdly do any further than just how good spring is in general. Though it's certainly expensive a fair but over 1k. Millionaire sweaties don't care but I've had recon buils hitting 25k where I'm like ok got to roll this back a bit in case I just get a bad air drop or whatever. United there's a spotting rework I still think it's in the realm of fixable. Halve rewards, up the basic non binocular to 500 and go up from there. More likely to have a couple than 10 people glassing. Though I suppose it's an argument for why maybe there should be at least some class lock, because I've brought the 150 scope when running a cqb m249 just to have a way to soak up some extra when I'm further from the action.


Strong community servers is certainly the only real answer I agree. I can't think of any popular games at all that didn't have some kind of cheater problem. Even if they have drm etc. Bf6 with it's mental level anti cheat still has a lot.
My last experience with thermals is early 2020s. They were really good, but as a hunter I assume you are not dealing with urban environments, vehicle fires, explosions, all the 'white noise' that is generated in those environments. So in game they are represented as the best of possible environs. That does make me curious if they will alter thermal behavior when they add the new weather system. That would be an interesting demonstration of an attention to detail thats not the most common, but being honest I don't expect that from them. This game is a grinders fantasy more than skill based, and is roughly a modern BF game with better game modes and aesthetics. That level of attention to detail is not demonstrated in other weapons behaviors so I don't expect it in the new weather update, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

I would like to see the recon spotting not last as long. My big problem with it is I've gotten into the habit of making my shot and moving cause kill cams etc give you away. But the recon, I can move or hide in a new location, swap buildings, come from another angle and it seems to persist quite some time. However, and this is also quite likely, cheating abounds. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 'still spotted' deaths are actually just people with aimbots or ESP.

I don't really have a problem with making cash off recon as it is atm. The current economy system is almost superfluous, other than the initial big drops for unlocks. The real economy is the XP grind for access. Once you get access its rare to have money issues unless you are just feeding your shit into the grinder and dying on infil etc. Now, if you are making an argument that the economy needs to be tighter to make it so every loadout is not top tier best all the time and that you have to be more selective? I can get behind that argument but again, I don't see it happening in this game system they have. Especially when they expect people to be grinding gold bars and whatever stock market faux crypto system they are promising.
 

Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
My last experience with thermals is early 2020s. They were really good, but as a hunter I assume you are not dealing with urban environments, vehicle fires, explosions, all the 'white noise' that is generated in those environments. So in game they are represented as the best of possible environs. That does make me curious if they will alter thermal behavior when they add the new weather system. That would be an interesting demonstration of an attention to detail thats not the most common, but being honest I don't expect that from them. This game is a grinders fantasy more than skill based, and is roughly a modern BF game with better game modes and aesthetics. That level of attention to detail is not demonstrated in other weapons behaviors so I don't expect it in the new weather update, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

I would like to see the recon spotting not last as long. My big problem with it is I've gotten into the habit of making my shot and moving cause kill cams etc give you away. But the recon, I can move or hide in a new location, swap buildings, come from another angle and it seems to persist quite some time. However, and this is also quite likely, cheating abounds. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 'still spotted' deaths are actually just people with aimbots or ESP.

I don't really have a problem with making cash off recon as it is atm. The current economy system is almost superfluous, other than the initial big drops for unlocks. The real economy is the XP grind for access. Once you get access its rare to have money issues unless you are just feeding your shit into the grinder and dying on infil etc. Now, if you are making an argument that the economy needs to be tighter to make it so every loadout is not top tier best all the time and that you have to be more selective? I can get behind that argument but again, I don't see it happening in this game system they have. Especially when they expect people to be grinding gold bars and whatever stock market faux crypto system they are promising.
Yeah, all that random other stuff would certainly create a lot of problem heat sources. Plus the whole glass windows if there's any left block it. I was kinda defaulting to thinking mainly woodland like most of the game maps.
I don't expect them to change my weather either, I'm forgetting whether they currently have Windows block it. I automatically break them because it blocks regular spotting.

As far as economy, ya I agree, but I was just thinking last night of seeing the game advertised and somehow in my head was thinking of it somehow slower paced or rpgish where it was an even bigger decision to bring our don't of those vehicles. Right now kits easily cost more, the vehicles are bought without a second thought and are as equally disposable.
 

Mao

Trakanon Raider
758
1,793
Yeah, all that random other stuff would certainly create a lot of problem heat sources. Plus the whole glass windows if there's any left block it. I was kinda defaulting to thinking mainly woodland like most of the game maps.
I don't expect them to change my weather either, I'm forgetting whether they currently have Windows block it. I automatically break them because it blocks regular spotting.

As far as economy, ya I agree, but I was just thinking last night of seeing the game advertised and somehow in my head was thinking of it somehow slower paced or rpgish where it was an even bigger decision to bring our don't of those vehicles. Right now kits easily cost more, the vehicles are bought without a second thought and are as equally disposable.
Yeah. The game, imo, has an identity crisis of sorts. Its a 3way king of the hill modern FPS shooter, but they want to mix in extraction elements and RPG skills and its a bit of a balance mess. Extraction shooters have that choice of ghetto runs to hunt specific items, money etc vs high rolling for hard content, pvp and whatever else.

That choice in WD is mostly an illusion. You can roll cheap and just spot or battlefield scavenge, but since its purely pvp with no pve and team based, doing so is pretty much handicapping your team and you're not really contributing much to the team effort until you loot a good body. I am kinda amused in that it feels like Blue team has become the defacto "Just here to grind skills" experience :D

Also, if you hog hunt in Texas I may need to talk to you more. Been interested in doing it here in NC, but if you want the really over the top experience I'm told TX is the place for it.
 

Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
Yeah. The game, imo, has an identity crisis of sorts. Its a 3way king of the hill modern FPS shooter, but they want to mix in extraction elements and RPG skills and its a bit of a balance mess. Extraction shooters have that choice of ghetto runs to hunt specific items, money etc vs high rolling for hard content, pvp and whatever else.

That choice in WD is mostly an illusion. You can roll cheap and just spot or battlefield scavenge, but since its purely pvp with no pve and team based, doing so is pretty much handicapping your team and you're not really contributing much to the team effort until you loot a good body. I am kinda amused in that it feels like Blue team has become the defacto "Just here to grind skills" experience :D

Also, if you hog hunt in Texas I may need to talk to you more. Been interested in doing it here in NC, but if you want the really over the top experience I'm told TX is the place for it.
Even if not scavenging or whatever, I have noticed some games you have like 10-15 circling, but then that many doing nothing in the fob or sometimes you have good bobs pulling agro while actually getting drills going. And then off course a few scattered solos. Hopefully advising vehicles not the usual kill 1-2 then die pointlessly.

Join the closed gun section of the forum maybe. That's where the Texas guys are who also have a lot of fun stuff. I've wanted to pay for a helo hog hunt etc in Texas, they are here in Oklahoma but not in my property area east of Tulsa, I'm mainly chasing coons, problem possums, and the odd coyote/skunk. Maybe will get the chance if I can retire early here in the next year or so.
 

Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,250
13,393
Private server not sure if cheats red had 5 tanks at our fob right soon after I delivered first ural.


One of those nights I'm ready to uninstall for 3 months to let it cook. Hard to grind supply when 3 games in a row, not a single faggot gets a fob up. I could run in recon and then w/ my luck waste half the game yknow succeeding/living and hardly get around to supply runs. I don't really like bob'ing and if I bring a fob? 3 other cunts have brought one. As expensive as they made it pretty lame to have no refund mechanic. At least let it deposit for the 1800 build supply etc it comes with.
 
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Xevy

Log Wizard
9,761
4,882
1790919576825.png


Thermals gotta get changed. Couldn't move anywhere because this guy was who knows where just marking us the entire game. Insta death anytime you passed a wall/corner because some one's just waiting.

It's awful.
 

Mao

Trakanon Raider
758
1,793
Private server not sure if cheats red had 5 tanks at our fob right soon after I delivered first ural.


One of those nights I'm ready to uninstall for 3 months to let it cook. Hard to grind supply when 3 games in a row, not a single faggot gets a fob up. I could run in recon and then w/ my luck waste half the game yknow succeeding/living and hardly get around to supply runs. I don't really like bob'ing and if I bring a fob? 3 other cunts have brought one. As expensive as they made it pretty lame to have no refund mechanic. At least let it deposit for the 1800 build supply etc it comes with.
I want to experiment with a few friends. Get a FOB, put it in one of the corner warehouses and just wall it off, build a drill or two and fire it as much as possible.

I don't expect this to succeed at winning, I expect it to get stomped of existence, but if its in a warehouse you can close off almost all of it, so no sniper fags, and the support XP and money for building it and firing it might just be worth the time. I get home tonight, I'll grab a couple friends and give it a try since we're all trying to unlock the Carl G since the RPG is almost worthless. (looking at you, oddly resilient humvee).

I'll bring back a trip report on if its worth the effort.