War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter

Xevy said:

I don't think the safest jobs are the most profitable, they're just the least risk. You can FOB/Logi an entire game with one kit and make 70k. Or you can go ham mode infantry and make 120k with 4 kits with a deathball.

I only played Day 1 Season 2, but I taxi'd and it took about ~12 deploys from people to make my money back on my chopper and then another 12 or so to get my real kit money back. Think it was like a 16k start and it took me honestly 20ish+ minutes to get all my money back because I could only taxi 2-4 people at a time.

Meanwhile if I drop hotzone deathball off the rip I can probably kill 5-15 people before I have to respawn.

Heli birds are designed to take out the deathball because it's target-rich areas in generally open areas. They should just be strafe runners, not hover-gunners like they are now. Having them essentially sit above a FOB and just kill BOBs without ever moving until they need to refuel is bad design. A gunner bird should just rip through the mass of balled up infantry and harass the rez pile, not pick solos off at will. It's honestly probably balanced to what it should be right now, but chopper cucks will always cry when they have to use more than 5 choppers in an entire game.

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Devils advocate w/ those numbers. That's 4kits I assume you mean geared, so 20k? So 60k for the 3 lost, puts you on par with the logi. If you mean 120k after costs, that's impressive because thats a 170-180k or so match then, to which I say not quite everyone is going to be able to pull of those kinds of numbers.

I do think you make more if you are semi decent at yknow actually fighting. I did like 80k bob the other day, lots of oil towers and mortars destroyed via mortar, building etc, I think it makes a lot more than truck driving. But that said, it's far more fun I think if I get some decent lives running 7k demo missions, or as long as we have an actual front to fight in, going in the frontlines. (Last game I had we somehow won but blue was like 4 fobs, maybe 5-6 people that weren't in a fob)

I'm kinda ok/would agree with wanting the super powerful stuff to need high skill ceiling to really make money, or else like Tarkov or anything else, the sweats just run away with it and can bring in orders of magnitude more rewards than even your random above average but not amazing player. On the other hand, for a "do what you want" kind of game, there's plenty of support or other tasks that are a combo of far too risky, or otherwise don't reward you near the same as just playing CallofDuty/sniping/being a really good bob.

Some examples of things that get neglected (aside from random items like prybar etc) Wolf? I've seen a couple unarmed, maybe one other armed. No one fucks w/ them for good reason.
Ural defenders etc? Ya I've seen maybe a handful mostly all season 1 doing some fob storms/youtube clowncar clips. Right now even gun humvee's seem pretty rare.

In a few discords I've seen arguing about playing supply truck. Ural/suv/whatever with a crate in the back. Apparently you can buy with them not dropped. But as much as people talk about doing that I've never seen it. I see an odd dropped crate usually with nothing interesting. I tried it a few times, either no one runs up, or you dont have interesting enough ammo, the good meds are locked behind a longer grind so the normal logi/supply people can't do it. The few times I got requests, they sat milling around the fob and never bought the requested supplies except for a couple times I got base RPG'rs that would pickup rounds.

Agreed on rapid circling heli's problem, I still would like to see pilots take more but still reduced damage, ideally as silly as it looks highly pushing them towards wearing T3. I dont know why they made HMG's take so damn long to build, little tricky finding a not exposed but good FOV to try and ambush a heli. I havn't seen it, but a sub 100m littlebird will have a very bad day if it isn't able to immediately plant a rocket on the MG>.

Yeah early or by choice cheap kits is a bit different math, I was assuming T3 or at least usually running a lot of $ in meds or secondaries ie defib and afaks, handful of c4 or otherwise hauling something else extra. Ammo cost sure went up last season when I was using AP. Even HP is a decent bump in cost just got aggravated in situations where toes are unavailable.

Though that kinda bumps into, running those pricey kits (aside from like T4) really gaining all that much reward than just the modest kit. Ya ya m4 etc are nice but Galil is more than serviceable.

Though I do really really hate medic gun, at least mp5 not that far away. But poor support doesn't really have a good weapon, fucking pump shotty, or LMG's that are so nerfed and relatively awful outside very narrow cases.

BrotherWu said:

Yeah, I knew that was what you meant. My question to the devs would be why design those types of activities to trend toward being losing propositions financially? Why are the safest jobs the most profitable?

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Honest answer is I don't think the devs understand player motive vs 'their vision' of how players play.

I don't think they really know what they are doing and so making best guesses on what their ideas are is very hard, cause it doesn't make sense. What little I have gathered leads me to believe their vision is of you pulling out things for the situation. As someone mentioned, big infantry ball in the zone and your guys pushing in keep getting crushed? Grab the little bird and mulch it. Enemy has a lot of armor? Get the Rocket bird. Big Fob all blockaded up and calling the drills over and over? Get the Rocket bird and arty tank.

Problem is, this assumes a certain level of team work and a willingness to risk a personal loss in order to get the team ahead. However, all the incentives and mechanics of the game push against this. On a smaller scale you see this with the Verba and to a lesser extent the MAAW. Carrying a Verba costs you your 3 slot for a 1 shot anti air weapon. Having one in the zone to shoot the possible AH6 that shows up is good. But... who wants to carry it vs medic revive or spotting tool? Sure, if you hit something you come out ahead on money but its a one and done thing. Revives and spots keep paying over and over. Same to a lesser extent with the MAAW. It costs a slot and ammo eats up your med and rifle ammo slots. When you need it its super important to have it so the tank doesn't just roll you. But... most the time its just dead weight that isn't earning you money. I get the impression the devs think of organized cooperative play (prolly cause thats how they play in house) but all the game mechanics teach players to be selfish as possible.

Its why one change I would really like to see is the ability to make squads and share rewards within the squad. Have a sniper team with a guy pulling security? The security guy is super important, but 90% of the time is doing jack all and making no money. Got a premade death ball? This lets you share rewards with the guy carrying your AA or AT so he's not getting hosed and has the stuff in case its needed. Obviously it would need to be playtested and limited in ways to try and avoid abuse, but I like the concept behind it at least.

My complaint with that vision is that unless APC close, or a handy trustworthy pilot assuming an infantry centric counter and not a vehicle. It's requiring voluntarily suiciding home. I dont think you could ever balance or be a good idea to have in field vehicle purchases, but look at repair/refuel station thats never used. Replace that with a shop that costs normal amount or a little more for most items. Restrict it offering high level armor etc if you must, and make it a negative/convenience fee that it costs FOB mechanical or ammo or supply on top of a cash cost. Gives you reason for riskier more forward fobs, gives you a reasonable time frame to try and respond to stuff.