War with Syria

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
11,041
794
imARgxK.png
 

Vegetoee_sl

shitlord
103
0
I'm curious to see how this will play out. I think Syria will indeed give up chemical weapons, but to what extent. Also, if they do give them all up, will our Goverment/richfuckers/assfucksCIA/people that want war let this place be? I somehow doubt it. I bet they find another way to go to war.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,850
137,944
The policy on the middle east including Syria has been practically the same from bush to Obama. After Iraq fell to pieces they decided to arm Sunni jihaddi's instead of using US military ground troops, It's kinda obvious that when needed they use money channeled through allied countries or black budget to get around congress when they need to it seems.

THE REDIRECTIONIs the Administration's new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?


"To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has co?perated with Saudi Arabia's government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."
~
Policy shift after Iraq Disaster
The policy shift has brought Saudi Arabia and Israel into a new strategic embrace, largely because both countries see Iran as an existential threat. They have been involved in direct talks, and the Saudis, who believe that greater stability in Israel and Palestine will give Iran less leverage in the region, have become more involved in Arab-Israeli negotiations.

The new strategy "is a major shift in American policy-it's a sea change," a U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel said. The Sunni states "were petrified of a Shiite resurgence, and there was growing resentment with our gambling on the moderate Shiites in Iraq," he said. "We cannot reverse the Shiite gain in Iraq, but we can contain it."

"It seems there has been a debate inside the government over what's the biggest danger-Iran or Sunni radicals," Vali Nasr, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, who has written widely on Shiites, Iran, and Iraq, told me. "The Saudis and some in the Administration have been arguing that the biggest threat is Iran and the Sunni radicals are the lesser enemies. This is a victory for the Saudi line."

Martin Indyk, a senior State Department official in the Clinton Administration who also served as Ambassador to Israel, said that "the Middle East is heading into a serious Sunni-Shiite Cold War." Indyk, who is the director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, added that, in his opinion, it was not clear whether the White House was fully aware of the strategic implications of its new policy. "The White House is not just doubling the bet in Iraq," he said. "It's doubling the bet across the region. This could get very complicated. Everything is upside down."
~
Saudi interests
The Administration's effort to diminish Iranian authority in the Middle East has relied heavily on Saudi Arabia and on Prince Bandar, the Saudi national-security adviser. Bandar served as the Ambassador to the United States for twenty-two years, until 2005, and has maintained a friendship with President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. In his new post, he continues to meet privately with them. Senior White House officials have made several visits to Saudi Arabia recently, some of them not disclosed.

Last November, Cheney flew to Saudi Arabia for a surprise meeting with King Abdullah and Bandar. The Times reported that the King warned Cheney that Saudi Arabia would back its fellow-Sunnis in Iraq if the United States were to withdraw. A European intelligence official told me that the meeting also focussed on more general Saudi fears about "the rise of the Shiites." In response, "The Saudis are starting to use their leverage-money."

In a royal family rife with competition, Bandar has, over the years, built a power base that relies largely on his close relationship with the U.S., which is crucial to the Saudis. Bandar was succeeded as Ambassador by Prince Turki al-Faisal; Turki resigned after eighteen months and was replaced by Adel A. al-Jubeir, a bureaucrat who has worked with Bandar. A former Saudi diplomat told me that during Turki's tenure he became aware of private meetings involving Bandar and senior White House officials, including Cheney and Abrams. "I assume Turki was not happy with that," the Saudi said. But, he added, "I don't think that Bandar is going off on his own." Although Turki dislikes Bandar, the Saudi said, he shared his goal of challenging the spread of Shiite power in the Middle East.

The split between Shiites and Sunnis goes back to a bitter divide, in the seventh century, over who should succeed the Prophet Muhammad. Sunnis dominated the medieval caliphate and the Ottoman Empire, and Shiites, traditionally, have been regarded more as outsiders. Worldwide, ninety per cent of Muslims are Sunni, but Shiites are a majority in Iran, Iraq, and Bahrain, and are the largest Muslim group in Lebanon. Their concentration in a volatile, oil-rich region has led to concern in the West and among Sunnis about the emergence of a "Shiite crescent"-especially given Iran's increased geopolitical weight.

"The Saudis still see the world through the days of the Ottoman Empire, when Sunni Muslims ruled the roost and the Shiites were the lowest class," Frederic Hof, a retired military officer who is an expert on the Middle East, told me. If Bandar was seen as bringing about a shift in U.S. policy in favor of the Sunnis, he added, it would greatly enhance his standing within the royal family.

The Saudis are driven by their fear that Iran could tilt the balance of power not only in the region but within their own country. Saudi Arabia has a significant Shiite minority in its Eastern Province, a region of major oil fields; sectarian tensions are high in the province. The royal family believes that Iranian operatives, working with local Shiites, have been behind many terrorist attacks inside the kingdom, according to Vali Nasr. "Today, the only army capable of containing Iran"-the Iraqi Army-"has been destroyed by the United States. You're now dealing with an Iran that could be nuclear-capable and has a standing army of four hundred and fifty thousand soldiers." (Saudi Arabia has seventy-five thousand troops in its standing army.)

Nasr went on, "The Saudis have considerable financial means, and have deep relations with the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis"-Sunni extremists who view Shiites as apostates. "The last time Iran was a threat, the Saudis were able to mobilize the worst kinds of Islamic radicals. Once you get them out of the box, you can't put them back."

The Saudi royal family has been, by turns, both a sponsor and a target of Sunni extremists, who object to the corruption and decadence among the family's myriad princes. The princes are gambling that they will not be overthrown as long as they continue to support religious schools and charities linked to the extremists. The Administration's new strategy is heavily dependent on this bargain.
~
In the past year, the Saudis, the Israelis, and the Bush Administration have developed a series of informal understandings about their new strategic direction. At least four main elements were involved, the U.S. government consultant told me. First, Israel would be assured that its security was paramount and that Washington and Saudi Arabia and other Sunni states shared its concern about Iran.

Second, the Saudis would urge Hamas, the Islamist Palestinian party that has received support from Iran, to curtail its anti-Israeli aggression and to begin serious talks about sharing leadership with Fatah, the more secular Palestinian group. (In February, the Saudis brokered a deal at Mecca between the two factions. However, Israel and the U.S. have expressed dissatisfaction with the terms.)

The third component was that the Bush Administration would work directly with Sunni nations to counteract Shiite ascendance in the region.
Fourth, the Saudi government, with Washington's approval, would provide funds and logistical aid to weaken the government of President Bashir Assad, of Syria. The Israelis believe that putting such pressure on the Assad government will make it more conciliatory and open to negotiations. Syria is a major conduit of arms to Hezbollah. The Saudi government is also at odds with the Syrians over the assassination of Rafik Hariri, the former Lebanese Prime Minister, in Beirut in 2005, for which it believes the Assad government was responsible. Hariri, a billionaire Sunni, was closely associated with the Saudi regime and with Prince Bandar. (A U.N. inquiry strongly suggested that the Syrians were involved, but offered no direct evidence; there are plans for another investigation, by an international tribunal.)
Planting dissenters to draw protest sympathy and chaos against the government.
US trains activists to evade security forces

And it has organized training sessions for 5,000 activists in different parts of the world.

A session held in the Middle East about six weeks ago gathered activists from Tunisia, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon who returned to their countries with the aim of training their colleagues there.

"They went back and there's a ripple effect," Posner said.
NATO Using Al Qaeda Rat Lines to Flood Syria With Foreign Terrorists
rrr_img_43572.jpg


CIA only now arming rebels line is laughable they've been arming the rebels this whole time, maybe they stopped using proxies and are directly arming rebels, but nato has already been doing it.

US and Europe in 'major airlift of arms to Syrian rebels through Zagreb'
08 Mar 2013

The shipments were allegedly paid for by Saudi Arabia at the bidding of the United States, with assistance on supplying the weapons organised through Turkey and Jordan, Syria's neighbours. But the report added that as well as from Croatia, weapons came "from several other European countries including Britain",
Arms Airlift to Syria Rebels Expands, With Aid From C.I.A.

With help from the C.I.A., Arab governments and Turkey have sharply increased their military aid to Syria's opposition fighters in recent months, expanding a secret airlift of arms and equipment for the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad, according to air traffic data, interviews with officials in several countries and the accounts of rebel commanders.

The airlift, which began on a small scale in early 2012 and continued intermittently through last fall, expanded into a steady and much heavier flow late last year, the data shows. It has grown to include more than 160 military cargo flights by Jordanian, Saudi and Qatari military-style cargo planes landing at Esenboga Airport near Ankara, and, to a lesser degree, at other Turkish and Jordanian airports.
 

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
16,461
42,372
I couldn't help but laugh when I saw this pic. No wonder people are using chemical weapons, they probably can't hit anyone with bullets.

Syria_deal.jpg
 

ohkcrlho

Silver Baronet of the Realm
6,906
8,941
I couldn't help but laugh when I saw this pic. No wonder people are using chemical weapons, they probably can't hit anyone with bullets.

Syria_deal.jpg
when i see stuff like that,i always remember the war in Lybia and how some dudes were firing without even aiming,just covering fire with rpg's and sniper rifles XD
at the beginning 0:15,that dude with the dragunov ahah
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Great article on why the deal on Syria is a win for Assad.

The Atlantic_sl said:
For his part, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is effectively being rewarded for the use of chemical weapons, rather than "punished" as originally planned. He has managed to remove the threat of U.S. military action while giving very little up in return. Obscured in the debate of the past few weeks is that chemical weapons were never central to the Syrian regime's military strategy. It doesn't need to use chemical weapons. In other words, even if the regime does comply with inspections (which could drag on for months if not years), it will have little import for the broader civil war, which Assad remains intent on winning.

If anything, Assad finds himself in a stronger position. Now, he can get away with nearly anything -- as long as he sticks to using good old conventional weapons, which, unlike the chemical kind, are responsible for the vast majority of the more than 100,000 deaths so far in the civil war. Let's say Assad intensifies the bombardment of villages and cities using aircraft and artillery. What if there are more summary executions, more indiscriminate slaughter? What we have already seen is terrible, of course, but it is not the worst Assad can do with conventional weapons.
This is the problem with a president who talks tough on foreign policy while at the same time being unwilling to use force. You can't have both and going around trying to bluff people turns out badly when you get called on it.
 
558
0
Great article on why the deal on Syria is a win for Assad.

This is the problem with a president who talks tough on foreign policy while at the same time being unwilling to use force. You can't have both and going around trying to bluff people turns out badly when you get called on it.
But then basically no one, save for the neo-con Republicans like Mccain, wanted to use force in the first place. The right didn't want to do it, the left didn't want to do it, and the public didn't want to do it. This administration never was going to use force to bring about regime change.

You can spin what happened really in any way that you want. On the side of the U.S., you can argue: the default position is to NOT bomb Assad. We didn't bomb Assad, and yet he's still agreeing to get rid of his chemical weapons, a proposition that has implications outside of that country's civil war. If the deal goes through as planned, I'm sure Israel would be quite pleased.
 

Lleauaric

Sparkletot Monger
4,058
1,823
Since our strikes were going to be limited to Syrian chemical weapons capability, what's the diff here?
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,850
137,944
That's not a realistic analysis or threat, using explosives to destroy chemicals that are spread through explosives would create giant death clouds of sarin, the strikes are punitive and/or an excuse to help the rebels(mercanaries) the US has been arming to overthrow Shiite sympathetic governments
 

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
<Gold Donor>
12,861
30,811
This administration never was going to use force to bring about regime change.
then they never should have threatened it.

That's what I said earlier. Obama bluffed. He got called.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,417
73,486
when i see stuff like that,i always remember the war in Lybia and how some dudes were firing without even aiming,just covering fire with rpg's and sniper rifles XD
at the beginning 0:15,that dude with the dragunov ahah
noscope headshots all day
 
558
0
If he was willing to do it, why did he send it to congress? Nuance.
Cause he ran his mouth when he was a senator and it came back to bite him in the ass ? And I'm not sure what your question has to do with my statement. He was willing to do it, so he sent it to Congress for approval; does that some how prove that he wasn't willing to do it ?
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
He was willing to do it, so he sent it to Congress for approval; does that some how prove that he wasn't willing to do it ?
So you think his red line to syria was "If you use chemical weapons, I will let congress vote on whether or not to launch attacks on you guaranteed to not cause regime change"?

That is what it turned out to be, but you have to be almost willfully stupid to think Obama meant Syria to take it that way. He was clearly bluffing and got called on it.
 
558
0
So you think his red line to syria was "If you use chemical weapons, I will let congress vote on whether or not to launch attacks on you guaranteed to not cause regime change"?

That is what it turned out to be, but you have to be almost willfully stupid to think Obama meant Syria to take it that way. He was clearly bluffing and got called on it.
Are you miss cleo now ? If Syria wasn't worried about a strike and wanted to call his bluff, they would tell both Obama and the Russians to go fuck themselves instead of agreeing to sign the CWC and turn over their chemical weapons. What exactly do you think "calling a bluff" means ?
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
7What exactly do you think "calling a bluff" means ?
Having your bluff called is when you threaten a military strike if something happens,THAT THING HAPPENSand then pass the buck to congress, all while having your Secretary of State go around saying that the strikes will be "unbelievably small".

Syria agreed to this deal because not only does it take off the table strikes in return for chemical action, but effectively takes off the board strikes any time in the future and gives their ally Putin a political victory. Also, they aren't going to give up their chemical weapons. At best they might give up some of their older weapons that aren't useable anymore. This is a huge win for Syria and Russia diplomatically and the US gets nothing.