What vehicle do you drive?
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Hekotat
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Yep, but a non turbo variant. They then claimed a turbo wouldn't fit and less than a month after launch there were turbo kits available that fit under the hood with no modifications. I feel like they shot themselves in the foot by not offering a turbo option.
Burren
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Can't step on the foot of the almighty STi. Hell, there are countless 86's with V8 swaps, 2JZ swaps, RB26 swaps, etc. etc. and even more with single, twin turbo, or supercharger add-ons. Ultimately, it came down to cost, however. Toyo-Baru wanted a fun car that was affordable and playful and that's exactly what they made. And, it's sold relatively well. However, in my mind, a 300-330hp version for about $35,000 would ALSO have sold like hotcakes around the world. Taking market share from Nissan, Infiniti, BMW, VW, Audi, and likely others as well.
*shrug* oh well.
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Hekotat
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That's exactly the problem with the RS, they made that car for a specific demographic and then added a dealer mark-up of 20k which takes it completely out of the demographic that would buy the car. What could go wrong?
I would have gladly cross shopped a GT86 and my Audi A3, if there was any compelling reason at all to pick the GT86 over the A3, at all.
I paid a lot more for my car, but there really isn't anything else close comparable (other than a BMW 2 series).
I'm hoping that if Toyota introduces the MR2 as an entry level sports car to compete in the Fiesta ST/Miata segment, that frees up the 2nd gen GT86 room to move upmarket and fill in the giant gap between the current gt86 and cars like the Z4, Caymen, or Corvette.
Jysin
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I just want the Supra resurrected. Best car, by miles, that I ever owned.
I don't simply mean a performance car in its name, but what the Supra was truly about. A hyper over-engineered car with an engine / drivetrain that could take double the stock HP with only bolt on mods (turbo, IC, etc). The 2JZ was a thing of beauty. Good for up to ~650hp before you needed to open it up and work on any internals. Just a monster.
The thing cost ~$45k back in the early 90s. That's about $75k in monetary inflation today... likely $120k in the auto bubble of today.
It's crazy to think Toyota has been without a performance vehicle in the USA since 1998. (fuck Lexus)
I don't simply mean a performance car in its name, but what the Supra was truly about. A hyper over-engineered car with an engine / drivetrain that could take double the stock HP with only bolt on mods (turbo, IC, etc). The 2JZ was a thing of beauty. Good for up to ~650hp before you needed to open it up and work on any internals. Just a monster.
The thing cost ~$45k back in the early 90s. That's about $75k in monetary inflation today... likely $120k in the auto bubble of today.
It's crazy to think Toyota has been without a performance vehicle in the USA since 1998. (fuck Lexus)
Hekotat
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Gents, I have a boner for these wheels. I need 15x10 in the rear and I think these actually look better than longchamps, what say ye?
Challenger Wheels - Wholesale Vintage Classic Car Wheels
Challenger Wheels - Wholesale Vintage Classic Car Wheels
Soygen
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Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic of the new Supra Toyota is working on. There were a few recent spy shots(in camouflage) of the new one being driven around. Pricing is a concern, though. I don't see anyone paying 70k for a Toyota today.
Burren
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Soygen
They have to give the new Infiniti a year's cycle before introducing the Nissan version. This one is just a last-ditch attempt to get some revenue before the new one debuts.A Antarius /
Jysin
Agree with both of you guys. The Japanese performance car market has been fairly dead since the late 90's. The current gen. GTR has injected some life into things, but it's much too costly for most of the world and it's not engaging and emotional like the sports cars from 2 decades ago.Using the Supra (gen 4) as an example for both of your posts; it beat out the world's equally priced and powered cars in all the comparisons - Corvette of the time being one of them. But, the price of it was it's downfall. The new NSX is a fucking bore and priced much too high again. Competing with cars it has no business messing with. The LFA from Lexus was a fucking TRIUMPH, but.....priced too high. The Miata continues to be a joy, but it's a fun little runabout for the retirement crowd with under 200hp.
What Japan has been lacking - and appears to continue to lack, with the exception of the outgoing and "hopefully" new Nissan Z - is a market full of sports cars, between $30,000 and $60,000. They used to have soul and passion and amazingly fun cars. Now, they have millions of white/gray appliances that all look the same.
Soygen
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That's my hope. If they drop that Infiniti twin turbo engine into the new Z, I'll be tempted once my Infiniti lease is up.
Jysin
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Source?
Cause honestly, I have seen hundreds of articles of the "return of the Supra" and random camo'd cars for nearly 2 decades now. None of which have come to any fruition.
*Edit*
Just did my own search.
Fuck that. The Supra was about 100x the car any BMW Z ever was. Toyota need to step up to the plate and design their own sports car again. Another GTR competitor. The Skylines were the only thing that would ever give my Supra in the UK any trouble.
Sludig
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Nissan had been trying their damdest to lose the American market for the last 10 years or so.
Their pedestrian vehicles suck or bland and ugly at best. The 370 is incredibly outdated at this point and iirc had some serious issues, forget what.
I hate their trucks but at least serviceable, their titan xd concept they showed off was sorta sexy raptor want to be but i doubt it makes it to market.
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Nissan hasn't been good in at least ten years. I've never liked the look of the 350/370, the engine sounds like shit and is mostly french, and it's a travesty that it doesn't follow the spirit of either the 240z original (light, simple, good looking and fun), or the z32 300zx (techie, turbo'd, innovative, striking looks), which are the best Z cars.
Toyota shouldn't move the GT86 up-market, that would be asinine. They need to come out with a Supra in the Corvette price bracket, or there-abouts. Give it on par performance with a Vette, except built to Toyota standards, and you'd have a winner I think.
For the mid market, say 30-50K, just release a hotter gt86 already. Strap a turbo on it, steal Subaru's AWD for it, offer a ton of editions... something. People will pay a premium for a hotter 86. If they feel they need something bigger for that market, a mid engine design like an MR-2 wouldn't cut it. And you couldn't call a car an MR-2 if it isn't mid-engine.
If they need something more like a BMW 2 series (size wise, like 2 door sedan/coupe size), why don't they just make a downmarket Lexus RC with a Toyota badge? Lose some of the lux, give it a facelift, then put it on a diet and then there you are.
Personally, I think the reason you don't see this sort of thing anymore, is that the market has changed, and people are far more concerned with boring shit like practicality, four doors, off-road capability even when they live in downtown LA, and other things that are the antithesis of small sporty cars. It's sad, but the enthusiast market is slowly shrinking every year. I'm dreading the day when people give up completely and driverless cars arrive.
Toyota shouldn't move the GT86 up-market, that would be asinine. They need to come out with a Supra in the Corvette price bracket, or there-abouts. Give it on par performance with a Vette, except built to Toyota standards, and you'd have a winner I think.
For the mid market, say 30-50K, just release a hotter gt86 already. Strap a turbo on it, steal Subaru's AWD for it, offer a ton of editions... something. People will pay a premium for a hotter 86. If they feel they need something bigger for that market, a mid engine design like an MR-2 wouldn't cut it. And you couldn't call a car an MR-2 if it isn't mid-engine.
If they need something more like a BMW 2 series (size wise, like 2 door sedan/coupe size), why don't they just make a downmarket Lexus RC with a Toyota badge? Lose some of the lux, give it a facelift, then put it on a diet and then there you are.
Personally, I think the reason you don't see this sort of thing anymore, is that the market has changed, and people are far more concerned with boring shit like practicality, four doors, off-road capability even when they live in downtown LA, and other things that are the antithesis of small sporty cars. It's sad, but the enthusiast market is slowly shrinking every year. I'm dreading the day when people give up completely and driverless cars arrive.