Whats rustling your jimmies?

fred sanford · 2025-10-05T17:07:48-0400

Sylas said:
Shower knob seized up. It's a single valve that mixes hot/cold water, won't turn.
Take off the knob and cover plate to get to the valve. stupid little copper stem insert in plastic thing, looks just like this:
View attachment 604629

Go to lowes to grab one, turns out they come in all shapes and sizes and I need to remove my existing one to measure it up against the new one to make sure its the right one. ok NP just gotta shut off the water to the house to pull this one, i'll do this quick so i'm not without water all day.

and the mother fucking plastic piece of shit just snaps in fucking half. That's why it was broke, that's why it seized up to begin with, it snapped in half and only that first little bit pulled out, the rest is lodged deep as fuck in my pipes and I have no idea how to get it out. I think maybe to drill it out but that will destroy the insert and potentially i'll drill through pipe or some other piece in there that i'm not supposed to. Ok maybe ill take a flat head and just chisel it out in pieces? I've gotta start banging on this damaging who knows what maybe breaking shit i'm not supposed to. either option will result in the destruction of the piece and leave me not knowing what size I need to go buy and replace it. At this point i'm so frustrated and I know that I don't know enough to not completely destroy my fucking shower so it's time to call in the professionals.

So that's how I ended up without water on a sunday waiting on a plumber to come bend me over for many hundreds+ dollars for what will end up being about 5 minutes worth of work on an emergency call to replace a shit ass piece of plastic garbage.

I’ve had the exact same scenario and I feel your pain. I studied everything the plumber did and talked a bunch to learn as much as I could. I’ve since done the cartridges in all our other showers.

Sylas · 2025-10-05T18:20:40-0400

dude came through and did exactly what I was gonna do, took a big ass flat head screwdriver and a hammer and shattered the fucking thing to pieces and pulled it out with needle nose pliers.

so now i know there's nothing behind the insert except just copper tubing and there wasn't anything I could of done to fuck it up worse other than somehow punching through the copper.

took him 10 minutes, been gone 40 minutes to go buy the replacement valve (didnt have it with him) and this is still gonna cost me several hundreds dollars

lurkingdirk · 2025-10-05T18:46:33-0400

Sylas said:
dude came through and did exactly what I was gonna do, took a big ass flat head screwdriver and a hammer and shattered the fucking thing to pieces and pulled it out with needle nose pliers.

so now i know there's nothing behind the insert except just copper tubing and there wasn't anything I could of done to fuck it up worse other than somehow punching through the copper.

took him 10 minutes, been gone 40 minutes to go buy the replacement valve (didnt have it with him) and this is still gonna cost me several hundreds dollars

Next time use a long wood screw, drive it a bit into the plastic in the pipe (not a lot), and pull that sucker out. Plumbers suck balls in how much they charge. Especially on weekends. Sorry man!

Sylas · 2025-10-05T19:35:02-0400

yeah hind sight being 20/20 and all I should of thought to use a screw, yeah. If I had gotten it out in 1 piece I could of put the 2 pieces together to figure out what size I needed and went and bought it myself for 20 bucks.

but thing is, guy almost broke the new valve trying to get it installed. after many attempts he realized deep deep in there, that the inside of the pipes have tons of lime/calcium build up like hell (heavy water due to well water), he used a tool to debur it and then everything slid in like butter.

looking at what he did, if I had even an inkling of a clue sure I could of did it myself easily. But when he ran into problems getting the new one installed I think to myself, had it been me alone doing this, would I have ended up destroying the new valve trying to make it fit? yep. would I have given up and called a plumber at that point? probably. So i'd be out 500 bucks either way. I forgot to mention but every attempt to get this thing installed properly involved me crawling through the crawl space under my house to turn on/off the water to the house.

So yeah this 10 minute job turned into almost 3 hours including a 45 min trip to Lowes for parts.

lurkingdirk · 2025-10-05T19:40:47-0400

Sylas said:
yeah hind sight being 20/20 and all I should of thought to use a screw, yeah. If I had gotten it out in 1 piece I could of put the 2 pieces together to figure out what size I needed and went and bought it myself for 20 bucks.

but thing is, guy almost broke the new valve trying to get it installed. after many attempts he realized deep deep in there, that the inside of the pipes have tons of lime/calcium build up like hell (heavy water due to well water), he used a tool to debur it and then everything slid in like butter.

looking at what he did, if I had even an inkling of a clue sure I could of did it myself easily. But when he ran into problems getting the new one installed I think to myself, had it been me alone doing this, would I have ended up destroying the new valve trying to make it fit? yep. would I have given up and called a plumber at that point? probably. So i'd be out 500 bucks either way.

So yeah this 10 minute job turned into almost 3 hours including a 45 min trip to Lowes for parts.

Yup, that's the way it is. It's surprising that he had so much trouble putting it in. He should have realized there was lime build-up before he even started trying the new valve. Flush it with vintager, wire brush, all that should have been done before even attempting to put the new part in. It's possible he was trying to pad his hours. Such is life.

Isn't home owning fun? There's always one thing or another.

Sylas · 2025-10-05T19:44:34-0400

the guy was pretty young tbh and I was the last call of the day, he had a 2 hour drive home after me so i'm sure he was just rushing and didn't think it would make a difference. he quoted me the price before he even started so I dont think he was padding hours. It just wouldn't go in all the way enough to keep the shower from dripping in full off mode so he had to pull it out again (almost breaking it) and start over.

wellijustdontknow · 2025-10-05T19:46:02-0400

Could've, would've, should've
As in could have, would have, should have
Not "could of", "would of"

Control · 2025-10-05T20:08:16-0400

Sylas said:
just gotta shut off the water to the house to pull this one, i'll do this quick so i'm not without water all day.

This is the part that rustles me. Whenever I build Fort Control, I want a water control panel with individual cutoffs for every fucking thing in the house and maybe another before each fixture to boot. There might be a good reason why this is a bad idea, but I do a lot of bad ideas!

lurker · 2025-10-05T20:20:09-0400

Control said:
This is the part that rustles me. Whenever I build Fort Control, I want a water control panel with individual cutoffs for every fucking thing in the house and maybe another before each fixture to boot. There might be a good reason why this is a bad idea, but do a lot of bad ideas!

Many modern shower valves, including the one Sylas has (I think it’s a Moen Positemp) come in a version with shut offs built into them for a few dollars more than the plain version. So if you’re building or replacing they’re a good choice.

lurkingdirk · 2025-10-05T20:21:35-0400

Control said:
This is the part that rustles me. Whenever I build Fort Control, I want a water control panel with individual cutoffs for every fucking thing in the house and maybe another before each fixture to boot. There might be a good reason why this is a bad idea, but do a lot of bad ideas!

I did this. I replumbed my entire house, and I have two enormous manifolds in the basement. I can isolate/drain any room of the house with plumbing in it without interrupting the water flow to any other part of the house. It was expensive as fuck. I regret nothing. The more ways to stop water flowing while doing repairs, the better!

Cad · 2025-10-05T20:23:16-0400

Control said:
This is the part that rustles me. Whenever I build Fort Control, I want a water control panel with individual cutoffs for every fucking thing in the house and maybe another before each fixture to boot. There might be a good reason why this is a bad idea, but I do a lot of bad ideas!

If you're having your house built it's trivial to add cutoff valves to each room. It's completely asinine that you can turn off the water to all sinks/toilets for example (assuming the valves work... ) but you can't turn off the water to showers/baths.

While you're at it I'd add a whole-house cutoff thats not in the alley/street - usually on the side of the house near where the water line enters your house is a good place for one because the alley ones are hard to get to and move sometimes.

Cad · 2025-10-05T20:25:23-0400

lurkingdirk said:
I did this. I replumbed my entire house, and I have two enormous manifolds in the basement. I can isolate/drain any room of the house with plumbing in it without interrupting the water flow to any other part of the house. It was expensive as fuck. I regret nothing. The more ways to stop water flowing while doing repairs, the better!

Only reason I wouldn't do it this way is you end up with individual water lines to each room - aren't most houses plumbed like a circuit where each room just branches off a main line that runs through the house? Just put a little access panel in each bathroom/utility room/whatever and have the cutoff in there so you can turn off each room without re plumbing everything and without having individual water lines for each room? But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Sylas · 2025-10-05T20:58:47-0400

lurker said:
Many modern shower valves, including the one Sylas has (I think it’s a Moen Positemp) come in a version with shut offs built into them for a few dollars more than the plain version. So if you’re building or replacing they’re a good choice.

Yeah he offered to redo the whole thing and replace the brass with a newer model one that has independent hot and cold water shut offs on either side (My shower doesnt have cut offs because its 40 years old) But he's talking about removing the shower molding itself or cutting a hole coming in through the closet behind my heat pump which is the other side of the wall where my shower was, we're talking many days and thousands of bucks when i really just needed someone with the knowledge to pull out a piece of broken plastic and replace it.

lurkingdirk · 2025-10-05T21:10:46-0400

Cad said:
Only reason I wouldn't do it this way is you end up with individual water lines to each room - aren't most houses plumbed like a circuit where each room just branches off a main line that runs through the house? Just put a little access panel in each bathroom/utility room/whatever and have the cutoff in there so you can turn off each room without re plumbing everything and without having individual water lines for each room? But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

You're not misunderstanding me at all. I have the main water feed coming to the manifold, then from there each room with plumbing (bathroom, kitchen, laundry, etc.) has a feed from that manifold. I reduced the plumbing to the bathrooms to a single 3/4" pex line, and I have on demand water heaters in each of the bathrooms. You always have hot water for a shower, regardless of who else is showering. But I can shut off a single bathroom and drain it to do any work needed. It was expensive and tedious to do, but I feel it was worth every penny and every hour of work. It was a lot of hours of work. When I go in to my plumbing room I feel like a commander of a ship. Everything at my fingertips.

It took two years to make it all as I wanted it. Part time working, of course, between every day life and other work. I'd do it again. And if I were building a new house, this would be a no-brainer. In a second I'd do it. And all in pex. Nothing else.

lurker · 2025-10-05T21:16:23-0400

Sylas said:
Yeah he offered to redo the whole thing and replace the brass with a newer model one that has independent hot and cold water shut offs on either side (My shower doesnt have cut offs because its 40 years old) But he's talking about removing the shower molding itself or cutting a hole coming in through the closet behind my heat pump which is the other side of the wall where my shower was, we're talking many days and thousands of bucks when i really just needed someone with the knowledge to pull out a piece of broken plastic and replace it.

Yeah, replacing a good shower valve just because you want stops can get ridiculously expensive. Most of the time, those cartridges just slip in and out. You had an unusual case.

I'm going to start a bath remodel at my house in a few weeks and since I have access under the shower location via a crawl space, I'm going to cut the PEX feeding the shower and the PEX feeding the tub and install inline valves.

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