Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Quineloe said:
do you honestly believe anyone will become rich on a 200k sub game?

Vanguard promised so much, yet held so little, that explains rage =P
When was the last time you played the game? And I mean take a character to 15 or so not just 5 minutes in newbie zones. Seriously do you really believe you know what you"re talking about?

I"m pretty tired of people who played the game in beta2 a year ago ragging on the game.
 

Jovec

?
732
282
Dis said:
Seriously, having another MMO is a GOOD THING people. It means that more companies will get money to develop more MMOs, which means possibly someone looking outside of the box or doing something ground breaking (maybe BioWare?). I hope VG does well, I think they still have a lot of "fixing" to do, but hopefully they can keep ahead of the "hardcore" and maintain an open dialogue with their community, otherwise it might get nasty.
I"m not sure if Vanguard is good for the MMO industry and the players yet. It"s a game with an enormous budget, a difficult and confused development and beta cycle, and released in a mediocre state of affairs. As big as the strides Sigil has made recently in improving the game, let"s be honest; Vanguard is definately subpar given it"s scope and budget, with it"s fair share of high and low points, lacking much of the polish and flair a AAA title should have. Although things can be learned from failures (especially from failures, some might say), at the end of the year we could easily be looking at WoW with 10+ million subs with 7-8 million TBC sales versus Vanguard, which nearly rivaled WoW in terms of dev time and budget, with under a million subs (perhaps well under). I"m not sure how encouraging that will be to future investors.

What I do think the MMO industry needs are several small scale, low cost, inventive, niche, and profitable MMOs (ala Eve) that can sustaing themselves with 250K-500K subs. This will encourage innovation in a genre where it is becoming increasingly difficult to justify taking risks as budgets climb higher and higher.
 

Dis

Confirmed Male
748
45
I think that is the point though, ITS FUCKING BETA, not gold release.

People get into these free, closed betas, and all of a sudden the feel empowered that everything should be fixed immediately because the pay...wait that isnt right, just because I guess. Seriously though, I think maybe betas should be taken more seriously by developers, IMO you should have to fill out an application on why and how you would make a good beta tester, rather than just handing out random invites to 15 year olds, and 30+ year olds that act like they are 15.

It is definitely a conundrum, how do you keep the utter retards off of your beta. You want to criticize the game? Fine, do it when they lift NDA, but you should also let your readers know that the game is STILL IN FUCKING BETA. A lof of people broke NDA, and IMO moreso than I have seen in any beta (at least publicly). A lot of gamers need not look any further than a mirror, but they are so fucking vengeful, they refuse to admit they were wrong. That wrong being, it was in beta, there were issues, but Sigil worked them out, and will contine to work them out (hopefully).
 

Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Time for my ha"pennorth: If Sigil has somehow managed to pull off a miracle and made Vanguard a decent game for launch (which it seems they have) - great! Nice work Sigil. More competitors (no matter the final subs base) for WoW are a Good Thing all round.

WillIbe playing it?
Fuck no. From what I read, it"s reminiscent of EQ-at-launch...and Irememberall the nerfs, working-as-intendeds, and cack-handed PvP "balance" from the first time around. But hey, that"s just me. If other people are having fun - more power to them.
 
Kreugen said:
Its much like the development of Aliens 3, followup to two beloved wickedly awesome and very different movies. The movie had a budget squandered by numerous rewrites, sets being made and torn down, and going through various directors until they finally wound up making a low-budget film with a big movie price tag.

VG"s lack of sold foundation at ANY point of its development has made the end result less than the sum of what went into creating it. The various features that came and went in those remakes were mourned by those who didn"t get to see how poorly they worked out once implemented.

Anyway, something to do if/when I get tired of TBC I guess.
Exactly.
 

Froofy-D_foh

shitlord
0
0
Personally I like it but cant get past the performance issues and it just doesn"t compare in playability to WoW. EQ is #2 on my top 10 games ever list, so obviously I was pretty excited about VG. Anyway, I would attribute a lot of the nerd rage to:

SOE haters: theres a ton of them

EQ1 purists: those that think anything that wasn"t in EQ1 on release is EZ mode. To them summon corpse altars, quest icons, mini-maps, radar, soloing for XP, etc... means WoW clone.

performance issues: it does not run well on average hardware.
 

Cuppycake_foh

shitlord
0
0
There"s also going to be a lot of angst over VG because everyone wanted it to fill a different individual role.

Current WoW players wanted it to be similar to WoW, in ease of gameplay and polish, (and run on their 2 year old systems that run WoW smooth as butter).
Ex WoW-players hoped it would be what WoW wasn"t in terms of non-repetitive collection quests, fruity colorful world, and not top-heavy.
Former EQ1 players wanted it to "OMGZ BRING BACK EQ HARDNESS"..they wanted CR"s, hell levels, travel that took ages, corpse camping, etc. etc.
EQ2 players that anticipated VG hoped that it would be more like EQ1 was and not what EQ2 became.
Roleplayers wanted VG to be THE GAME that would bring back immersion and realism elements.
Crafters wanted this game to have the most complicated, diverse and indepth crafting system.
People who don"t play any MMO"s and were waiting for "the next big thing" wanted a 3rd gen game that brings tons of new elements to the table.
Hardcore raiders wanted VG to be like EQ1, giant epic battles against leet mobs and wanted to flash their epeen around.
Casuals wanted VG to be soloable and be able to accomplish a lot in a little bit of time.

Get it? This isn"t possible for any MMO to achieve all this - yet everyone had their own personal demands for what VG would be. You"re going to have a lot of haters when you"re trying to please such a selfish, demanding and unsatisfied crowd.
 

vynde_foh

shitlord
0
0
Goliath said:
I miss the EQ days, being 15 and being able to play as much as I wanted whenever I wanted, not feeling guilty at all. At least I can be grateful I had the best game for the best age. But it"ll never happen again. I will never undrestand the 20+ year olds that play 4+ hours a day.
i can understand 20+ year olds doing it on weekdays if they have a full time job and they just wanna relax after coming home from work. but on the weekends people should be going out
 

Bongk_foh

shitlord
0
0
vynde said:
i can understand 20+ year olds doing it on weekdays if they have a full time job and they just wanna relax after coming home from work. but on the weekends people should be going out
except us who are married and own a house and 2 car payments etc, who don"t have the cash to go out. MMOG"s are cheap entertainment. I couldn"t even go to mcdonalds every weekend for the money i spend on MMOG"s the price cannot be beat.
 

Asmadai

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3,022
8,498
Cuppycake said:
There"s also going to be a lot of angst over VG because everyone wanted it to fill a different individual role.

Current WoW players wanted it to be similar to WoW, in ease of gameplay and polish, (and run on their 2 year old systems that run WoW smooth as butter).
Ex WoW-players hoped it would be what WoW wasn"t in terms of non-repetitive collection quests, fruity colorful world, and not top-heavy.
Former EQ1 players wanted it to "OMGZ BRING BACK EQ HARDNESS"..they wanted CR"s, hell levels, travel that took ages, corpse camping, etc. etc.
EQ2 players that anticipated VG hoped that it would be more like EQ1 was and not what EQ2 became.
Roleplayers wanted VG to be THE GAME that would bring back immersion and realism elements.
Crafters wanted this game to have the most complicated, diverse and indepth crafting system.
People who don"t play any MMO"s and were waiting for "the next big thing" wanted a 3rd gen game that brings tons of new elements to the table.
Hardcore raiders wanted VG to be like EQ1, giant epic battles against leet mobs and wanted to flash their epeen around.
Casuals wanted VG to be soloable and be able to accomplish a lot in a little bit of time.

Get it? This isn"t possible for any MMO to achieve all this - yet everyone had their own personal demands for what VG would be. You"re going to have a lot of haters when you"re trying to please such a selfish, demanding and unsatisfied crowd.
Nail on the head. Good post.
 

Ellsworth_foh

shitlord
0
0
tad10 said:
When was the last time you played the game? And I mean take a character to 15 or so not just 5 minutes in newbie zones. Seriously do you really believe you know what you"re talking about?

I"m pretty tired of people who played the game in beta2 a year ago ragging on the game.
I did that with my monk about 3 weeks ago before i uninstalled the game. The game got progressively worse for me the farther I got in the game.

When I was playing the game I kept going with the "it gets better" but I found grouping to be painfully difficult, the game to run terribly, and combat animations were just plain ugly.

I felt like I gave it a good chance. Hated it though.

Crafting sucked, diplomacy was just halfassed [imho]

I did my best.
 

Kedwyn_foh

shitlord
0
0
vynde said:
i can understand 20+ year olds doing it on weekdays if they have a full time job and they just wanna relax after coming home from work. but on the weekends people should be going out
Not everyone works 9-5 40+ hours a week. Sure most do but when you consider that these games already cater to people with time on their hands as it is its natural for people that work odd shifts or have a lot of free time (IE dont" have to work as much) to play them.

Regardless you would be hard pressed to get nearly unlimited entertainment for $14 a month. MMO"s are a great value if you have a little bit of time to put in. 3-4 hours a night on Vanguard is more than enough to see pretty good advancement in Vanguard even at higher levels.
 

vynde_foh

shitlord
0
0
kedwyn said:
Regardless you would be hard pressed to get nearly unlimited entertainment for $14 a month. MMO"s are a great value if you have a little bit of time to put in. 3-4 hours a night on Vanguard is more than enough to see pretty good advancement in Vanguard even at higher levels.
oddly enough, I fell in love with eq because my time schedule was contrained. when I didnt have unlimited hours to play it left me wanting more every time i logged off.
 

Kejah_foh

shitlord
0
0
tad10 said:
When was the last time you played the game? And I mean take a character to 15 or so not just 5 minutes in newbie zones. Seriously do you really believe you know what you"re talking about?

I"m pretty tired of people who played the game in beta2 a year ago ragging on the game.
Ok we get it, you"d marry the fucking game if you could. As much as people hate those who rag on VG, every post of yours is like some 13 year old girl with a crush on the high school quarterback. We get it.

Have fun with VG. Glad you like it, feels too much like EQ and if I want that. Well, you know.
 

Eomer

Trakanon Raider
5,472
272
Lyrical said:
I originally posted to try to figure out why the board got it so wrong on Vanguard, when usually the posters here are dead on about the quality of MMO"s, video games, movies, etc. I don"t know if I am explaining myself, but I guess the whole VG launch made me lose a little faith in the comments of some of the posters here. This game is not a horrible waste of time. I actually am enjoying it, and if you had asked me a month ago, I would have told you that based on the posters" on this site"s comments, that VG is not a game I would play more than a few weeks.
I don"t think the board got it wrong on Vanguard, though. Things get blown out of proportion around here. When WoW was launched, everyone was creaming their pants about how awesome it was, and look at where we are now: there"s a lot of issues still remaining with the game, mostly technical but there"s definitely issues. It was really good, but was it as awesome as it was proclaimed here? Probably not.

The reaction to VG"s beta when it started to get opened up more was what I expected. The game was honestly in quite poor shape. You should have seen it from Dec 05 through to the summer of 06... what a goddamn mess. And the feedback on these boards reflected that, but again it was over amplified.

Now that the game"s actually out, from what I"ve seen in the VG threads, the feedback is actually quite positive. A lot of comments like "it brings back the magic of EQ" and so on. I haven"t played the release version yet (hi, SOE, ship more than 5 copies to Canada next time, everyone"s sold out), but people whose opinion I trust are quite positive on the game. There"s flys in the ointment to be sure, but it"s not the trainwreck I was expecting for launch.

So in the end, I don"t think the boards got the game wrong, if you can read through the bullshit. I think they got it quite right, really.
 

Deris_foh

shitlord
0
0
I would take everything that people say here with a grain of salt.

I was the original vanboi - I registed on the V:SOH Forums the *morning* they opened, I read every single developer post and all the design docs (even the leaked ones) religiously. I got into beta very early, and played the hell out of it.

Somewhere down the line, they managed to turn something with alot of promise and enjoyment that actually required a brain to play into another WoW-esque "LOL CRITS MELEE CHAINZ" mmo, drawing WAY too much from EQ2. Diplomacy was transmogrified into something a 3rd grader can figure out, and really those two major changes just completely destroyed the game for me. They fucked with party chains (are they even implemented now?) and really all interdependency in combat went out the window, along with the DK getting some of the most questionable skills, and the utter destruction of CC in one of the last beta patches turned this game from "omg it will feel just like EQ " into "yay? have fun roleplayers and crafters".

I had the hugest amount of excitement, hell I even played at work to show everyone how rad it is in beta 3.. somehow that all got away, and now it has nothing to do with revolutionary nor "skill" in my eyes.
 

Camerous

Molten Core Raider
331
1,056
Well the answer to your question is pretty simple actually. Up until a few weeks ago VG was a steaming pile of shit for most of us, plain and simple. Brad was coming here and posting how great VG was going to be and how we just needed to be patient and people were getting tired of it and people like Ut and Neric started having circle jerks bashing VG. Fast forward to today and now it isn"t any where near as bad as it was but those that quit before now won"t give it a chance. *shrugs* But from my experience I am glad I never listened to UT and Neric"s doomsday BS and got the game for myself. It lots of fun and just proves that Brad was right and those 2 were wrong. End of story.
 

Heavens_Myst_foh

shitlord
0
1
Maybe you people shouldn"t spend 3+ years following games that aren"t even fucking out yet and we wouldn"t have this problem of people going psychotic when their favorite "design doc feature" (wtf) gets axed 31 months from release.
 
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Clug_foh

shitlord
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0
Bongk said:
except us who are married and own a house and 2 car payments etc, who don"t have the cash to go out. MMOG"s are cheap entertainment. I couldn"t even go to mcdonalds every weekend for the money i spend on MMOG"s the price cannot be beat.
Those still suckling on their mama"s tits don"t understand this and won"t understand it until their mamas cut the cord. IE: In some cases, never.