Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

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ashatumar_foh

shitlord
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0
WoW was the hot chick you couldn"t wait to bang, then found out she couldn"t hold a conversation.

VG was the understated nerd hotty that you just couldn"t bear to introduce your friends to. You knew it was there, you just didn"t know how to spin it.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Kejah said:
Ok we get it, you"d marry the fucking game if you could. As much as people hate those who rag on VG, every post of yours is like some 13 year old girl with a crush on the high school quarterback. We get it.

Have fun with VG. Glad you like it, feels too much like EQ and if I want that. Well, you know.
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You don"t get it. I don"t care if someone doesn"t like Vanguard -- they prefer instanced to non-instanced combat -- they don"t like the combat mechanices -- they think i feels too much like EQ -- its still too fricking buggy -- whatever. I get pissed off at people who rag on a game that haven"t played -- or played so long ago that the game their ragging on doesn"t exist anymore.

* * *

Re: OP -- I have no idea why anyone would spend several hours of their day pissing on VG on these boards. But then I"ve spend way more time than I should defending it. My reason for defending the game is pure selfishness -- I want the game to succeed so I can play it with other people -- as sadly Marriage between a man and a videogame is only legal in Massachusettes and Canada.
 
Rangoth

Rangoth

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,560
1,697
tad10 said:
You don"t get it. I don"t care if someone doesn"t like Vanguard -- they prefer instanced to non-instanced combat -- they don"t like the combat mechanices -- they think i feels too much like EQ -- its still too fricking buggy -- whatever. I get pissed off at people who rag on a game that haven"t played -- or played so long ago that the game their ragging on doesn"t exist anymore.

* * *

Re: OP -- I have no idea why anyone would spend several hours of their day pissing on VG on these boards. But then I"ve spend way more time than I should defending it. My reason for defending the game is pure selfishness -- I want the game to succeed so I can play it with other people -- as sadly Marriage between a man and a videogame is only legal in Massachusettes and Canada.
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Well, tad...I like VG quite a bit also. Tried WoW could never stick(though I think it was because I couldnt find a good group of people to play with), even got sucked back into EQ from time to time, which dispite all the rage I still enjoy, and now I really like VG from what I"ve seen.

However that being said you do sometimes come off a little too committed, no disrespect meant. I even understand why certain things people complain about get to you, my biggest beef with the haters wasn"t so much theirs views on the game, as it"s almost always a lost cause debating that shit, but I hated when people said you need a computer of the future to play, when it runs quite fine on current machines(bugs and problems with some cards etc yet to be fixed aside).
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,914
14,818
I got a character up to 16, last played about a week before beta closed. Played long after I was tired of it, in case I became more interested. That didn"t happen. Thus I"m not playing VG.
 
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Whoknows_foh

shitlord
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0
Excellent post. Wish some people here understood what you"re saying. Obviously, some simply have too much time and are too caught up in their own sense of being to move on when something inconsequential like a video game doesn"t meet their lofty ideals. Instead they play the role of hero to the masses, who obviously are too stupid to make their own judgments, and instead pontificate endlessly on the pitfalls inherent in said product, which they either have never used at all or don"t use any longer. Its quite funny.

Eomer said:
I think I"m pretty much the only one. That posted, anyways.

Perhaps I missed Lyrical"s intention, though. However, to me, this thread wasn"t supposed to be an argument about VG"s merits in general, or in comparison to any other game (WoW of course). Rather, it was to understand why people who dislike a particular game, in this case VG, spend so much time and effort telling everyone why they don"t like it.

Take me for example. I was really looking forward to the game. I jumped at the chance to get into the friends and family beta when I was offered a chance. Upon first logging in, I found that the game world seemed to have a lot of potential, but that pretty much everything else was quite obviously in a state of huge flux, and the gameplay was overall nothing new or even that fun. I played a few characters to their teens, and that was about it. People were posting here about how bad the game sucked, it took a super computer to run, and so on. I corrected some misconceptions about performance and the state of the game, not really defending it just keeping people honest.

Then I was booted from the beta cause people over at the beta boards complained. Fair enough, I"d definitely violated the NDA, and I wasn"t all that enamoured with the game anyways. Did I come here and bitch incessantly about the game? Did I rage about Brad supposedly lying about the game or acting like a used car salesman (which I totally disagree with, but nice work, notice he hasn"t posted in months?)? No, I didn"t do any of that. Why?Because I quite honestly didn"t give a shit.The game wasn"t what I was hoping it would be at that point, so my interests turned elsewhere.

And that"s the crux of the issue: if the game"s so terribly awful that you can"t even play it, why would you persist in posting about it for weeks, months, or years? Why wouldn"t you just move onto something that you enjoyed and were interested in? And to those saying "well it"s because I had such high hopes", I still don"t think that it makes any sense to continue hobby horsing on the game to the extent that some do. It makes little rational sense. Your posts on a well-read and respected MMOG forum are going to do nothing to change the game itself, and subsequently if you honestly dislike the game, you will continue to do so.

So why bang your head on the wall? As I posted earlier in the thread, this behaviour is not limited to VG, or to video games in general, but pretty much all parts of our society. And it just makes little sense to me. I mean, when I was 13 I "hated" Offspring as much as the next angst filled teenager because they were too "mainstream", but as I grew up, I just learned to not give a shit. I wish a lot of the anti-VG/WoW/PS3/360/whatever people here and all over the net/world would learn to do the same.

Although I suppose I could have just saved myself a lot of typing and agree with FuckYou: people are stupid.
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vynde_foh

shitlord
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0
ashatumar said:
VG was the understated nerd hotty that you just couldn"t bear to introduce your friends to. You knew it was there, you just didn"t know how to spin it.
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you tell them that shes the nastiest thing youve ever seen in the sack
 
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Whoknows_foh

shitlord
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And here is the crux of the problem. A person tried something in early beta and expected it to be a free demo of a finished game. It wasn"t, yet they went on and on criticizing the faults of a product that was not finished. People complain all the time about how most betas are just free time for publicity sake and all input from the testers are ignored. In this situation we have a game that actually went through a true public beta and made changes, sometimes daily, in accordance to feedback from the public testers. It really shows up in all the negativity surrounding this game why most companies don"t do real betas. I don"t think many will go this route after seeing what happened to Sigil and Vanguard. However, I feel the game is probably better for it and its foundation are now solid enough to help propel this game towards meeting the great potential it has.

Cuppycake said:
The thing is - is that its hard to come back from a bad first impression. A lot of people tried out VG in beta, and IMO it was awful. It was buggy, clunky, laggy, and had zero direction whatsoever. Even a month ago the game was still nothing special whatsoever. Has it improved? Oh I"m sure it has. I can"t tell you from personal experience because I"m still getting the same shitty performance and my highest character is level 4. Regardless, a game better improve from beta to retail otherwise the beta served no purpose. Especially one that was under NDA for so long.

Honestly, a lot of people are going to jump on the hater "bandwagon" because they did try the game. One month, three months, six months ago. The game sucked. After betaing VG, it was honestly hard for me to buy the box. I wanted to give it a fair chance, but I know a lot of people wouldn"t consider it after what they experienced of the game firsthand in beta. Bottom line is - its like EQ2. EQ2 now = great game. EQ2 in beta and for the first year after release = Awful. Maybe VG isn"t awful right now, but its less-than-mediocrity has left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.
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Whoknows_foh

shitlord
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Easy, the retard rate was raised so high for this game was because of a few people who constantly shit on every single thread, no matter how inconsequential, about Vanguard. Nobody could make a discussion about anything having to do with Vanguard, Brad McQuade, Sigil, whatever without these certain people coming in and just shitting all over the place and making the discussions pointless name calling and simple fanboyism vs anti-fanboyism. It was sad to see this on Fohguild.org and you"re right, this board has gone down quite a lot due to these certain people. I use to really enjoy coming here for good discussions on various MMORPGS, but now this place is not much better than most other message boards. Just a bunch of people posting crap. However, discussions like this one gives me hope that things can improve.

Lyrical said:
I was talking about VG in respect to the sheer amount of rage in comparison to other products. But where the thread goes is up to the posters. That"s the point of having a conversation. Who knows where it will go?

While many have said that they could write psychology papers on the odd behavior to the game, I would simplify it with one question:

Why does Vanguard raised the level of retardism on the Foh boards?

Part of me feels let down by this board.Foh is my number one website to go for unbiased information.I base almost 100% of my buying decisions for MMO"s, video games, books, movies as well as visit the TV house for ideas on new TV shows to watch. I can"t read articles in magazines, newspapers or websites, since so many times the writers are paid to give high ratings. They have a vested financial interest, while many of the posters here do not. And one can"t base their buying decisions off of the company"s marketing spin with all of their wild claims. I originally posted to try to figure out why the board got it so wrong on Vanguard, when usually the posters here are dead on about the quality of MMO"s, video games, movies, etc. I don"t know if I am explaining myself, but I guess the whole VG launch made me lose a little faith in the comments of some of the posters here. This game is not a horrible waste of time. I actually am enjoying it, and if you had asked me a month ago, I would have told you that based on the posters" on this site"s comments, that VG is not a game I would play more than a few weeks.
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D

Deris_foh

shitlord
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0
I actually suggested Vanguard to a few of my friends, who are still playing EQ somehow day in and day out (2 are 110% Roleplaying live in their mom"s basement nerds, another is a casual tradeskill lover who just can"t let SW:G go).

V:SOH just isn"t anything, nor anyone else I know wanted. I expected alot more from all of the pre-release hype, and got very little in actual fruition of the final "Gold" release.

Not my fault, not Sigil"s, they went with whatever design features they thought would pull in more subscribers, and I"m sure their version of V:SOH will pull in more than what I wanted from the game.

Hope you have fun playing all!

EDIT: I will probably some point in time give it another shot, maybe a year or two down the line assuming they actually add Inquisitors.
 
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Rum_foh

shitlord
0
0
The game has changed so much from the original plan. They cut a lot of the stuff that was going to make VG unique and stand out. Like the harvesting classes.. foreman, reaper, ect. diplomacy was going to be a very influential thing in where by you could change the games flow by "whispering in the kings ear" or where you needed a diplomat to be able to enter areas, by having the diplomat talk the guards into letting your group pass. The combat system was also to be a whole lot more robust, with a wound system, and death was going to sting with mandatory corpse runs. There also was a lot a lot of hand holding things added to VG like a markers on your map to show the location of your corpse, markers on you compass to telling you where to go for quest and symbols over top of npc heads like you have in WoW. so, so much for targeting that niche crowd that wanted a challenging none hand hold gaming, where you actuality had to use your brain.

I can see why some people are mad, but fuck those niche people.
 
D

Duppin_sl

shitlord
3,785
3
The nerd rage is there because it gives those with no lives a way to feel important by bashing on the hard work of others.
 
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Nino_foh

shitlord
0
0
Rum said:
The game has changed so much from the original plan. They cut a lot of the stuff that was going to make VG unique and stand out. Like the harvesting classes.. foreman, reaper, ect. diplomacy was going to be a very influential thing in where by you could change the games flow by "whispering in the kings ear" or where you needed a diplomat to be able to enter areas, by having the diplomat talk the guards into letting your group pass. The combat system was also to be a whole lot more robust, with a wound system, and death was going to sting with mandatory corpse runs. There also was a lot a lot of hand holding things added to VG like a markers on your map to show the location of your corpse, markers on you compass to telling you where to go for quest and symbols over top of npc heads like you have in WoW. so, so much for targeting that niche crowd that wanted a challenging none hand hold gaming, where you actuality had to use your brain.

I can see why some people are mad, but fuck those niche people.
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A lot of those "stand out" features were tried, but honestly, WHY make harvesting this long convoluted process, where by the way, you could DIE by harvesting incorrectly, when its main function is to support crafting? It sounded good on paper, (to some people), but it was not fun; it was in fact anything but. Much of the diplomacy stuff has been retained. You can influence towns and outposts now, and the sky is the limit with how we expand the system over time.

The usability issues like quest icons, maps, etc were tooth and nail internal battles where common sense finally won out over kicking the player in the nuts. The game is difficult and challenging enough without having to aggravate you.
 
R

Rezz_foh

shitlord
0
0
"The usability issues like quest icons, maps, etc were tooth and nail internal battles where common sense finally won out over kicking the player in the nuts. The game is difficult and challenging enough without having to aggravate you."

Hey, some people enjoy being kicked in the nuts. I believe there"s entire websites devoted to that kind of enjoyment =/

Seriously though, EQ is sort of viewed through rose colored glasses, and the "features" it started with were really limitations of it"s design than actually intended facets of the game. Eventually it had to change those to something more user friendly, I suppose. VG made the jump without having 5 years of expansions and a dwindling playerbase to make it do so
 
D

Deris_foh

shitlord
0
0
Nino said:
A lot of those "stand out" features were tried, but honestly, WHY make harvesting this long convoluted process, where by the way, you could DIE by harvesting incorrectly, when its main function is to support crafting? It sounded good on paper, (to some people), but it was not fun; it was in fact anything but.
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You didn"t have to completely retardize combat. I liked the no auto-attack system, it was a little slow and could have used a few tweaks, but it was eons better than the current "CRIT I WIN" stuff in now.

Diplomacy is nothing but a shadow of the original design, and defeating any NPC basically means losing to him once to figure out his colors, and loading up your denail deck of that color. Hooray for autowin?
 
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Presarc_sl

shitlord
1
0
Deris said:
You didn"t have to completely retardize combat. I liked the no auto-attack system, it was a little slow and could have used a few tweaks, but it was eons better than the current "CRIT I WIN" stuff in now.
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Are you seriously telling me that having an auto-attack system vs not having an auto-attack system would be a good thing? I mean even as it sits right now, less than half the classes even think about auto attack at all, or melee abilities in general. What about casters, and what about the myriad of abilities that each fighter class has. Auto-attack is just a base which can be supplemented by abilities (WoW, VG, EQ (lolz), etc).
 
V

vurt_foh

shitlord
0
0
The simple problem with Vanguard is that it is altogether not very good. It"s got plenty of great stuff, but a lot more shitty stuff.
 
M

machineman_foh

shitlord
0
0
Whoknows said:
And here is the crux of the problem. A person tried something in early beta and expected it to be a free demo of a finished game. It wasn"t, yet they went on and on criticizing the faults of a product that was not finished. People complain all the time about how most betas are just free time for publicity sake and all input from the testers are ignored. In this situation we have a game that actually went through a true public beta and made changes, sometimes daily, in accordance to feedback from the public testers. It really shows up in all the negativity surrounding this game why most companies don"t do real betas. I don"t think many will go this route after seeing what happened to Sigil and Vanguard. However, I feel the game is probably better for it and its foundation are now solid enough to help propel this game towards meeting the great potential it has.
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I played beta for over a year, right up until the final 2 weeks (until I got banned for being too negative on their forums (the now non-existant forums).

Hardly "early beta" but there was just as many performance problems, hitching, etc then as there was 5 months ago.

So yeah, as a previous poster said - this RETAIL BOX is really the stage it should have been at when the public first saw it in beta form.
 
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holymight_foh

shitlord
0
0
Deris said:
Diplomacy is nothing but a shadow of the original design, and defeating any NPC basically means losing to him once to figure out his colors, and loading up your denail deck of that color. Hooray for autowin?
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You haven"t played in a while have you? You can see the colors before you engage a NPC.
 
T

Thornaster_foh

shitlord
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0
VG beta 2 was choppy, and 2.5 I stopped playing (but felt no particular need to spew vitriol) and picked it up again in 3, when it had gone back to choppy - they"d fix one thing and break two others. Eons from a perfect game then, and still far from perfect now.

And all along, although I played a reasonable amount, it didn"t have the real "compulsion" that I look for in a game. I can stand any amount of bugs if they game just makes me want to play it and Vanguard wasn"t doing that.

Toward the end of three and the eyeblink of four it started to come together - they were re-opening zones and they turned into games you wanted to play. You hoped each patch they"d unlock a new one. Diplomacy was gathering momentum, and the class revamp was slowly dragging along.

And release - still bugs, still things being broken by patches which fix other things - but the compulsion is there. I want to get back to the level I reached in beta and pass it. Form a guild, make a guild hall, all that junk.

And, fooling around with civic levers, and you get one of the benefits to trigger. And there, you"ve potentially changed the gameplay of everyone in the city for the next hour. Nothing like a brief and fleeting sense of power to make you want to play more.
 
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