Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

stevemcqueen said:

I am a bit confused here.
Brad insists in marketing this game for everyone.
I suggest he needs to play it first, because it absolutely ain"t (unless he is playing a different version of Vanguard not still released).

When he talks about this game being for everyone he is missing a big point.
He needs to take into consideration that Casual gamers want to stay at the same pace as everyone else, that"s why they play games like WoW, because even putting little time, they can have at least a lvl 60 well equipped, like anyone else and they won"t feel inferior to others, that"s the point.

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Stopped reading here. You"re full of shit, sir. A casual player, pre-TBC especially, felt the pain of having hardcores in the game. A player with ZG gear was severely outclassed by an AQ/Naxx raider. Such is the nature of MMOG"s, people who play more, get more out of the game. It"s just a fact. "Casual" players just won"t get the same fulfillment out of an MMOG that a hardcore/raider type will get. Sure, now it"s almost possible in WoW with the Arena PVP system, but in 6 months-time, when BT and Hyjal are out and the raiders are all sporting tier 6, you will still be sporting *at best* a few Heroic items. Good luck in an arena match against a T6 team.

This genre just doesn"t support a casual playstyle.

I don"t know why I bothered to read that entire wall of text from Brad. Its his typical jargon that leaves me wondering what the hell I just read.

Anyway, there are bigger issues with VG right now other than what sort of game its being perceived as. Brad, I think you need to stop worrying about selling your product to a widening demographic and instead concentrate on fixing the game you"ve delivered.

"Vanguard is not for Casual gamers. Period.
Speak with your heart, not with your wallet Brad, sometimes it gets better results, trust me."


Here"s one of Vanguard"s most pressing long-term issues. Who is this game aimed at? Let"s skip the "core gamer" answer and go into things a bit deeper.

Vanguard isn"t a casual-friendly game. Games like "Dungeons and Dragons Online", or "City of Heroes", are much more casual-friendly.

Vanguard isn"t a hardcore raider game. Those players have no compelling reason to leave behind years of progress in EQ or WoW.

Vanguard certainly isn"t the best choice for the dedicated PvP player.

Who"s left? The exceptions--the players who don"t fit into the usual stereotypes. For example, Vanguard is an excellent game for people who play a lot but don"t like raiding. However, this is likely true only because the game is so unfinished and future content patches may well piss off even THIS crowd (Sigil is already mentioning tiers of raid content).

In their effort to try to please everybody, Sigil may well wind up with a product which does everything, but doesn"t do any one thing particularly well--not unlike "Everquest 2". Like EQ2, Vanguard is becomming known as something its subscribers play not for its own features, but because they can"t find something else they like better.

Sigil, you"re not going to out-casual DDO or out-PvP Warhammer. You can"t hope to catch up to Blizzard"s or EQ1"s depth of raid content. You don"t appeal to a specific untapped market like Runescape (kids in their case). You have the additional hurdles of a buggy launch and a market crowded with new titles. These next few months will be the most important timeframe in Vanguard"s existance. You can do one of two things: You can try to appeal to everyone and consign yourselfs to EQ2-style permanent mediocracy, or you can try to identify a specific sort of gamer and become the best game on the market for that sort of player. Perhaps the former will meet your financial goals. Whether it does or not, I don"t think most of the gaming community really wanted to see a title with so much promise wind up as just another name in the crowd.

I don"t play "World of Warcraft" but over the last year or more Blizzard has been very forthcomming with explaining where their game is headed. As such it"s very clear who that game does and doesn"t appeal to. Take the same approach. 12 months from now, what will Vanguard"s content look like? Who will like the game, and who won"t?

Danth

Brad, please tell me that the Infineum Questline is for solo or even casual players, if u dare.
In this questline you have to solo, group and even raid (the captain needs 2 groups to have a chance to kill him).

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I play a few hours a day, and the infineum quest line while a tad big long, is pretty damn easy. We beat the captian with 6 people and we were all around 22-24. Hell we beat Kronus and we were 32-28 and with 5 people and no levitation. Brad doesnt have to say it, i will. Cuase its true. lol

Eomer said:

Not to dredge this up again, there"s a line between being critical and just being disruptive. There"s plenty of people here pointing out bugs and problems with the game, and that"s fine. What is a problem is when the handful of antiboy"s continually pops into threads and gloat about the game sucking or being released early or whatever,even though they"re not actually playing the game and having nothing constructive to add. Because then the fanboys start foaming at the mouth, and you end up with the online equivalent of a bum fight. And hopefully that problem"s taken care of for the time being.

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I don"t give a fuck if the person is playing the game or not. What does that have to do with ANYTHING? I can"t imagine that it"s a prerequisite on this board to actively be playing a game to talk about it. Also, I imagine that most people talking shit about VG HAVE played it.

The problem with VG is you have a rather vocal community of complete faggots who can"t bear to hear that their game of choice sucks. You know why? BECAUSE IT FUCKING DOES AND THEY DON"T WANT TO HEAR IT. If you try to say "man wow sucks" in a wow thread, you don"t get the same level of faggotry from their players. Seriously the latest group of VG crusaders are the biggest fucking faggots I"ve ever seen on these boards and the fact that they"re taken seriously makes me want to come here less and less.

Jesus fucking christ, when did this board turn out to be the haven of such tremendous pussies?

In order not to DRAW THE IRE OF VG INTERNET PROTECTORS I"ll add this to keep my post safe.

Oh man, this game is great and I don"t mind having to pay for beta. It"s cool because whatever, it"ll be great in a couple years and then everyone will be playing VG and not WOW lol beer and peanuts. In a few years when you guys come around I"ll be all uber and maybe you can thank me then for helping to pay for the best game ever in the world. Btw, Nino, I know you"re at home trying to fuck your wife but man, I was dragging a horseshoe to put on my mount and the server hitched. I lost my horseshoe and fell through the world. Can you please call the office and tell them to reboot Kojan. Thanx so much u rock. Peace~


ps. Faggots.

I was dragging a horseshoe to put on my mount and the server hitched. I lost my horseshoe and fell through the world. Can you please call the office and tell them to reboot Kojan.

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ROFL

Jesus fucking christ, when did this board turn out to be the haven of such tremendous pussies?

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Sometime between Feb 9 and Nov 23, 2004

Soygen said:

It"s a MMO-geek forum. It"s always been full of pussies. And no matter how many "fucks" or "faggots" you type out, I"m lumping you into that category too.

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Hey I like my fucks and faggots

If you"re going to post on an MMORPG forum you might as well do it right.

Faggot.

kcxiv said:

I play a few hours a day, and the infineum quest line while a tad big long, is pretty damn easy. We beat the captian with 6 people and we were all around 22-24. Hell we beat Kronus and we were 32-28 and with 5 people and no levitation. Brad doesnt have to say it, i will. Cuase its true. lol

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That"s because you are Uber..........

Point is, 2 groups or not, the Infineum quest is not a solo quest, therefore solo and people who prefer to group have not the same chances.

Secondly I bet, you like me, are those kind of player that, although we would like to play more we can only play few hours due to other RL engagements.
We can easily put up with the grouping and all the LFG trouble stuff.

Real Casual gamers are people that by choice don"t spend too much times on games and cannot be bothered to spend 30 minutes to 1 hour LFG (and don"t tell me that u find group in 5 minutes, because I can too, but the majority don"t.)

When casual players want to group they expect to find group fast, otherwise they get bored pretty easily, hence the reason why they like solo mostly, although they don t dislike grouping if it doesn"t involve to much trouble and waste of time.

redjunkopera said:

fixed

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Lol that was my worry, the way Brad is promoting Vanguard, is scaring the shit out of me...........I see EQ2 in the horizon

stevemcqueen said:

Lol that was my worry, the way Brad is promoting Vanguard, is scaring the shit out of me...........I see EQ2 in the horizon

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FYI, EQ2 would be an upgrade.

xmod2 said:

If you try to say "man wow sucks" in a wow thread, you don"t get the same level of faggotry from their players.

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You"re fucking retarded. The biggest damn crybabies on this fucking forum are the WoW fanboys. But of course you are one of them so why am I surprised you would post something so stupid and utterly not true. If this wasn"t a Blizzard cum guzzling board people like Ut, Itza, and Hiram would have been banned long ago, specially if they pulled their stupid shit in WOW threads over and over again like they have in every VG thread.

xmod2 said:

Seriously the latest group of VG crusaders are the biggest fucking faggots I"ve ever seen on these boards and the fact that they"re taken seriously makes me want to come here less and less.

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We can only hope this part is true.

Camerous said:

You"re fucking retarded. The biggest damn crybabies on this fucking forum are the WoW fanboys. But of course you are one of them so why am I surprised you would post something so stupid and utterly not true. If this wasn"t a Blizzard cum guzzling board people like Ut, Itza, and Hiram would have been banned long ago, specially if they pulled their stupid shit in WOW threads over and over again like they have in every VG thread.

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I don"t even fucking play fucking WoW you fucking faggot.

xmod2 said:

Hey, that girl in the pic looks like this chick I"m fucking in my WoW guild.

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Well if you don"t you"re a liar then.

At least for me the people who play VG are probably the main thing that kept me away from the game. Sure it wasn"t finished and all the stuff that has been rehashed many times over. I would have given the game an honest shot if it"s fans didn"t come off so crazy. I can"t imagine wanting to play an online game with these people.

Witoubo said:

At least for me the people who play VG are probably the main thing that kept me away from the game. Sure it wasn"t finished and all the stuff that has been rehashed many times over. I would have given the game an honest shot if it"s fans didn"t come off so crazy. I can"t imagine wanting to play an online game with these people.

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Ditto. That and the "Its the game for all you anti-WoW folks!" marketing and mentality.

We probably wouldn"t have liked you anyway.

Also why are the servers down?

Soygen said:

I think that was a joke because that chick was "addicted to WoW".

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hhmm guess I missed the funny?

Witoubo said:

At least for me the people who play VG are probably the main thing that kept me away from the game. Sure it wasn"t finished and all the stuff that has been rehashed many times over. I would have given the game an honest shot if it"s fans didn"t come off so crazy. I can"t imagine wanting to play an online game with these people.

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I thought the same way, but due to a combination of weird factors - kindness from someone on this board (I know, wtf is that shit) and an old friend coming out of nowhere, I gave it a shot.

The people I"ve met on Hilsbury, at least, are not raving assholes. Quite the opposite, in fact. Its like they all evaporated when the beta ended, because God knows the general VG beta chat made Barrens chat look like a Mensa meeting while I was there.

Broham said:

Stopped reading here. You"re full of shit, sir. A casual player, pre-TBC especially, felt the pain of having hardcores in the game. A player with ZG gear was severely outclassed by an AQ/Naxx raider. Such is the nature of MMOG"s, people who play more, get more out of the game. It"s just a fact. "Casual" players just won"t get the same fulfillment out of an MMOG that a hardcore/raider type will get. Sure, now it"s almost possible in WoW with the Arena PVP system, but in 6 months-time, when BT and Hyjal are out and the raiders are all sporting tier 6, you will still be sporting *at best* a few Heroic items. Good luck in an arena match against a T6 team.

This genre just doesn"t support a casual playstyle.

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Chill out a bit bro.
I understand where you coming from, and I agree with all you say, but you miss my point.
Of course after hitting 60 you need to throw yourself full on into raiding and PVP-BG if you want to get the ultimate equipment, but what create more aggravation to casual players is the big divide in levels, not necessarlily the equip.
Just having a character hitting lvl 60 is some kind of achievemnt and a good reward, of course if you want to get the best equipment as well you ll have to enter the hardcore arena, but that"s another matter.

People can tollerate to have a less powerful equipment, but having the majority of players 20 levels higher than yourself is harder to swallow, and discouraging.

In Vanguard there is no chance for casual players to keep the same pace of more dedicated players both in leveling and the equipment department and that"s from lvl 15 up, not from 60 like happens in WoW.
In Vanguard the casual gamer will start to get bored or frustrated at around lvl 20 (the more stubborn), while in WoW they will play happily til 60, when they will realise that probably they"ve been fucked, it will be too late to look back and since they have a level 60 (like anyone else) why not try to equip it properly?

That"s the major difference between Vanguard and games like Wow, in Vanguard casuals won"t reach the end level, in WoW they do.
And hopefully it will stay this way, although Brad wasn t exactly reassuring in his "viral" message.....