Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

Any raiding guilds out yet? that actually raid in Vanguard? I would really like to know their real system and see real opinions besides devs dorky answers =/

Is raiding like a normal dungeon? clear trash/no trash? Non linear?

I have this idea in my head that raids are like dungeons with no bosses until you kill the only boss available.. Which drops an item to spawn the 2nd boss, 2nd boss drops an item to spawn the 3rd boss and so on.. dorky system >< complete guess LOL

kohl said:

The dungeons in WoW are indeed fairly linear. However, I don"t see why they couldn"t create more instances with multiple points of entry kind of like Stratholme. That is to say, it seems like more of a design decision than any kind of technical barrier.

Conversely, I also don"t see why a dungeon with multiple points of entry as you stated, couldn"t be instanced.

Also, why could a game not decide to use both instanced and non-instanced content? Make some huge bad-ass dungeons non instanced, but then add in some others that are. I don"t see the problem.

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Just don"t see how it would work. It is not just the multiple entry points that make it non-linear, but many other factors as well. Take Razh for example. It is a city dungeon that you may enter from each of the four sides. You can also go over the wall if you have a flying mount. It is completely open-ended.

You go in you fight to the named you are interested in and you kill it. You are no obligated to kill a bunch of mini-bosses or a whole ton of trash before you get to fight him. With instancing you will be able to farm any single boss way too easily. Without instancing there are PHs and respawn timers you have to wait for. Just a lot more fun in my opinion.

hmmm...an instanced dungeon and a non-instanced dungeon can be the exact same. I don"t understand the talk of spawn timers and place holders, respawn, etc, etc and the assumption that instances vs no instance are different animals....it can all be exactly the same.

The only difference is your not standing in line, waiting for reservations, etc etc to go do what you came to do. You get to actually play the game rather than deal with a time/asset management problems.

holymight said:

Just don"t see how it would work. It is not just the multiple entry points that make it non-linear, but many other factors as well. Take Razh for example. It is a city dungeon that you may enter from each of the four sides. You can also go over the wall if you have a flying mount. It is completely open-ended.

You go in you fight to the named you are interested in and you kill it. You are no obligated to kill a bunch of mini-bosses or a whole ton of trash before you get to fight him. With instancing you will be able to farm any single boss way too easily. Without instancing there are PHs and respawn timers you have to wait for. Just a lot more fun in my opinion.

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How is this any different from, say, Andorhol in Western Plaguelands?

I know its not exactly the same thing because Andorhol is hardly a raid "city", rather you can kill a named mob for the Scholomance key. It just sounds like what we have already in other games on a slightly larger scale with the old EQ placeholder system tossed in for good measure.

Gaereth said:

hmmm...an instanced dungeon and a non-instanced dungeon can be the exact same. I don"t understand the talk of spawn timers and place holders, respawn, etc, etc and the assumption that instances vs no instance are different animals....it can all be exactly the same.

The only difference is your not standing in line, waiting for reservations, etc etc to go do what you came to do. You get to actually play the game rather than deal with a time/asset management problems.

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This is what I don"t understand about the "omg ... but but... you can farm instanced content!" argument. Honestly, with the length of instances in most games to the variety of drop tables, competition for items you want IF they drop... I don"t see the problem. Additionally, the population of players that can actually sit there for 20 hours a day and farm is teeny-tiny.

holymight said:

Just don"t see how it would work. It is not just the multiple entry points that make it non-linear, but many other factors as well. Take Razh for example. It is a city dungeon that you may enter from each of the four sides. You can also go over the wall if you have a flying mount. It is completely open-ended.

You go in you fight to the named you are interested in and you kill it. You are no obligated to kill a bunch of mini-bosses or a whole ton of trash before you get to fight him. With instancing you will be able to farm any single boss way too easily. Without instancing there are PHs and respawn timers you have to wait for. Just a lot more fun in my opinion.

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It would be easy to make it instanced. Just make the entire wall the entry point to the instance and spawn the player in the appropriate location inside the instance.

There"s no golden rule either that says one version of the instance per group or raid. Place a limit on the number of players (say 100) and start new versions when that limit is reached. To prevent farming just place a 24 hour limit (or whatever time) per player per instance version.

Nattac said:

Any raiding guilds out yet? that actually raid in Vanguard? I would really like to know their real system and see real opinions besides devs dorky answers =/

Is raiding like a normal dungeon? clear trash/no trash? Non linear?

I have this idea in my head that raids are like dungeons with no bosses until you kill the only boss available.. Which drops an item to spawn the 2nd boss, 2nd boss drops an item to spawn the 3rd boss and so on.. dorky system >< complete guess LOL

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Raid ready guilds yeah, there is nothing to raid yet though. Maybe 2 months from now City of Brass will be in? I"m not sure though.

Hachima said:

Raid ready guilds yeah, there is nothing to raid yet though. Maybe 2 months from now City of Brass will be in? I"m not sure though.

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Expect some raid content by the end of the month-ishhhh I"ll try to find the post that had the info. At least I think it was a post. Hrmmm

Please don"t kill me if any of it gets delayed or something

Nattac said:

Any raiding guilds out yet? that actually raid in Vanguard? I would really like to know their real system and see real opinions besides devs dorky answers =/

Is raiding like a normal dungeon? clear trash/no trash? Non linear?

I have this idea in my head that raids are like dungeons with no bosses until you kill the only boss available.. Which drops an item to spawn the 2nd boss, 2nd boss drops an item to spawn the 3rd boss and so on.. dorky system >< complete guess LOL

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There is no raiding content at the moment and doesnt look like there will be any in the near future. So we dont know yet. But seriously this is one part of the game that I fully expect to be very, very good and a step above other games raiding content (you know who I mean). I"m just pissed its likely going to be months before we get to see it.

Bolero said:

Yeah, had a lot of fun in Trengal waiting for our turn to spawn nizesk or whatever the 6 dot boss mob is named. 3 groups waiting and it seemed to be an hour+ per spawn. Our group got bored and left before we could get it.

Funny how you can travel the chunks and never see anyone, but go to a place like Trengal and everything is camped times 3. There is other content out there, but thanks to the insane travel times, people stick to the same dungeons.

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Thats why you play on a pvp server... Seriously, how much more fun would WoW have been if you got to fuck someone up mid way through or at the end of an instance and they have to go all the way to the start... Yes, imagine that feeling. Imagine the excitement and thrill when that fucktard guild you hate has just snuck up behind you and its about to beon.And you know full well, if you lose your fucked. But if you win, they"re fucked and you achieve happiness that makes your partner think your seriously wierd and wonder where she went wrong to end up in this situation. Thats what you get in VG. Thats PVP. Consequences mean no zerg rush and actually caring whether you win or lose. Why people bother PVE is beyond me.

The Bog said:

Exactly. Vanguard is empty, both of players and of charm. It"s this huge world of nothing, with little creative drive. It just feels like a lump of rolling terrain.

It was charming back in 1999 when nobody knew what the fuck was going on, but now? Not so much.

Vanguard is the Mika of the MMORPG genre.

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lol

Faelor said:

Expect some raid content by the end of the month-ishhhh I"ll try to find the post that had the info. At least I think it was a post. Hrmmm

Please don"t kill me if any of it gets delayed or something

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I"m pretty sure thats 46-50 group content. But a nice dungeon. The egyption one if I"m not mistaken. I seriously doubt there will be raid content that soon considering Brad came here the other day and gave some info whilst avoiding a a date.

Faelor said:

Expect some raid content by the end of the month-ishhhh I"ll try to find the post that had the info. At least I think it was a post. Hrmmm

Please don"t kill me if any of it gets delayed or something

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There is still a lack of single group 40+ content that is finished and Brad said single group content would take priority. Maybe that is what may be ready in the end of the month.

I think something that could solve everyone"s would be triggered gold mobs (I thought they had this in) mixed with timed mobs. That"s how it was supposed to be, I believe. Maybe it wasn"t implimented?

Anyway, between this and EverQuest II for me. I"m thinking about just going back to EverQuest II until this game simmers some more. Then again, I kind of like the idea of being around from the beginning.

I"m definately going to try it out, though.

He basically said they had very few resources devoted to the raiding content at this time because everyone was trying to fix and finish the existing content so what they have is currently playable.

Hopefully there is a lot of group content at the upper levels since quite a lot of people starting to roll into that area now. If not...its gonna hurt. People complained about the fact WOW had only a couple of big raids initially...VG has none at the moment and the fast/hardcore folks are either already there or almost there after a month.

Sithro said:

Then again, I kind of like the idea of being around from the beginning.

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Or you could wait a few months and be around for the end! GET IT LOL

ps. I"m just kidding. I don"t need 17 vg idiots coming out to say how 100k active subscribers is a great success and it will keep the game financed and omg mmorpgs don"t cost a lot to keep going and it will be up forever just look at other games.

rinthea said:

lol

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Stunning retort.

Apparently, they couldn"t make the AES work correctly, so no triggered gold mobs for the forseeable future. (which is a pity, because AES seemed like a great idea)

Oh, damn... That"s lame.

Hopefully they get SOME of their good ideas in before any kind of expansion pack.

Sithro said:

Oh, damn... That"s lame.

Hopefully they get SOME of their good ideas in before any kind of expansion pack.

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Doesn"t look like it. They can"t even update all the game"s art yet (including much of it that the artists have actually finished, according to a dev post on SV). I tried the trial, thought the game needed polish so I held off on buying it. Glad to see I made the right decision. Maybe I"ll check back come September or something.

Game is fine if you wanna play a few hours a day. If your in a race to 50, then you will run into problems. I am only level 35, and i am having a blast. Checking out all the areas.

kcxiv said:

Game is fine if you wanna play a few hours a day. If your in a race to 50, then you will run into problems. I am only level 35, and i am having a blast. Checking out all the areas.

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I"m a pretty casual MMO"er these days but when it comes to these games you always have to assume that people will play 24/7 and race to max level. Designing an MMORPG any other way is pure folly.