Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

serrathen said:

Fuck Nairbog give me a break:

By level 15, I"ve seen Snow, Hills, Forests, Cities, Swamps, Dungeons and a Savanah (Lost Lands). Not to mention all the epic mobs and have an epic line of quests I started at level 1. Where the fuck is all that in Vanguard? Also I can after level 10 go monster and play as a level 50 monster. So its not just those races. Truthfully its like 2 games in one. As far as world size goes... just imagine if Sigil did Thestra alone and actually finished the content, polished the game... still LOTRO would be better.

"New Targonor? Are you kidding me? New Targonor is lacking life in every measurable way one can imagine. It is a barren wasteland of lag, and mediocrity. In sharp contrast, Bree is enormous, utterly gorgeous and full of life"

Silky Venom - View Single Post - Best Graphics?

Dink Dimbwinkle
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When was the last time you went to NT? Before the diplomacy content was added it was quite barren I agree. Have some overhead shots of Bree? I just have a hard time believing it compares in size/scale to NT, but hey I could be wrong i"m willing to concede defeat on that point if I see some convincing screens. However, I doubt we"ll ever see eye to eye if you really think NT is mediocre.

Secondly, Vanguard has all the environments you listed and then some, on Thestra alone. Then is has deserts, oasis"s, volcanoes, jungles, mystic forests (areas surrounding Caial Brael and Martok), gigantic strongholds, ancient corrupted magic schools, I could go on and on... We would really have to do an item by item comparison and I"m too lazy to do so, but I will stick my by statement that VG has more variety and size in its dungeons and environments than LoTRO by a hefty margin, until I am proven otherwise by people who have played the game all the way through. Like I said, I could very well be wrong but I haven"t heard anything about LoTRO"s dungeons, which makes me a bit wary of the game.

edit: just looked at those screens, neat looking, but the scope doesn"t compare to NT at all. I"m willing to bet that only a fraction of those buildings are actually enterable, and you have to zone into every single one...

Malakie Torsade said:

I"m glad Morderick is posting now. There was a gaping hole for a raving Vanboi since Tad got booted, and he is filling it nicely. Thanks, Mord!

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I dont really think he is raving. He is bringing up valid points, if you dont think he is please point them out and give an explanation on why he is wrong. Can you do that?

Mkopec1 said:

If you think LOTR is a better game, the discussion is moot, because clearly you have shitty taste in games.

OOOH.... THE GRAPHICS!!!!!!

Too bad the gameplay in LOTR is not there, but oh well. Have fun running your hobbit around a gorgeous world lacking in gameplay.

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Gameplay? Just what is so great about Vanguard"s gameplay? Is it the countless number of un-inspired kill and fed-ex quests? The mediocre, half baked dungeons? The fucking chain system that requires you to crit on an opener, just to use them? Or is it the insane lag when your character even thinks about raiding?

Maybe it"s the fantastic PvP where pets lock up other people so bad with lag, that they get owned? Is it the rich, professionally written lore, that is expertly revealed by playing the game? Oh wait.. you have to be a Diplomat to experience the literary mastery of Sigil"s spelling challenged staff. Give me a fucking break. Vanguard"s gameplay is the definition of half baked mediocrity.

In contrast, LOTRO has quests that are actually interesting, include lore from recognizale characters, and reveal the story of Middle Earth. An epic quest line starts for every race at level 1, and continues through to level 50. The story is presented with quests, and in-game cinematics that are professionaly done. Vanguard doesn"t even have an introduction cinematic.

Brad says they had to release because of financial reasons... Just where did the $30 million go again?

Regarding classes... this I find funny in particular. While some of Vanguard"s classes are unique, most are a poor attempt to copy WoW and received between 2 - 5 revamps from Beta 2 to release. They were revamped because they fucking sucked, and still do. Let"s just compare the WoW Hunter to the Vanguard Ranger.

In addition to a highly developed archery system, the LOTRO Hunter has Tracking skills, Trapping skills, the ability to make Campfires (Providing regen and a place to Cook. Yeah, LOTRO has a Cooking craft.), and the ability to "fast travel" groupmates. To me, that is depth. The VG Ranger has none of these. Considering even the EQ1 Ranger had Track, I find that to be pretty lazy on Sigil"s part.

In addition to a highly developed archery system, the LOTRO Hunter has Tracking skills, Trapping skills, the ability to make Campfires (Providing regen and a place to Cook. Yeah, LOTRO has a Cooking craft.), and the ability to "fast travel" groupmates. To me, that is depth. The VG Ranger has none of these. Considering even the EQ1 Ranger had Track, I find that to be pretty lazy on Sigil"s part.

kcxiv said:

I dont really think he is raving. He is bringing up valid points, if you dont think he is please point them out and give an explanation on why he is wrong. Can you do that?

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STFU already and get out of VG threads.

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The guy is a fucking clown. People in this thread might disagree with each other, vehemently, but this douche bag and his crying about getting out of the thread is just comedy gold.

kcxiv said:

I dont really think he is raving. He is bringing up valid points, if you dont think he is please point them out and give an explanation on why he is wrong. Can you do that?

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Honestly, he"s making me wish we had Tad back. This isn"t raving to you?

Then don"t play it and STFU about it already.

If you get 3 FPS on your shitty 2004 system with this game and quit after reaching lvl 3 OMG there is no content, they good for you. Did I say STFU already?

When you get a real computer you"ll see how incredible this game is and it"s FULL of content. Killing grasshoppers for 10 hours in a row outdoors was your choice. I did quests, crafting, AWESOME dungeon crawling and I can"t level slow enough to even see ONE continent"s content completely.

If it"s pointless, stop posting shit "oh my 2004 system runs everything, all games must run on 2004 hardware otherwise they are pieces of shit" yadayada STFU.

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At least Tad typed like a coherent adult.

Malakie Torsade said:

The Gameplay for LOTR isn"t bad... it just isn"t great; it didn"t hook me in. My beta account should still be active so I"ll give it another go, but not expecting much. Though I"m sure enthusiasts will try it, I don"t see it having huge subs 6+ months after release.

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I tried out the Captain class, it was alright. One feature I liked was the fact that they encourage you to do things besides grind mobs with that "badge"-like feature.

Basically you get a "badge" if you use use a certain move enough, kill enough of a certain type of mob, explore all the places in a zone, etc. These can then be assigned to your character (limited slots based on level) to customize your guy a bit. They weren"t actually called badges but I think it was an interesting system to give you a path for advancement when you were burned out of grinding xp mobs and questing.

xmod2 said:

The people playing VG seem like the kind who never really made it in a top end guild or have any remarkable skill.

(people don"t tend to listen to reason)

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There"s something wrong here....

What is with the LOTRO pimping going on in this thread?

Samflam said:

What is with the LOTRO pimping going on in this thread?

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I wouldn"t call it pimping, I would call it comparison. Since people like to harp on Vanguard"s graphics and how state of the art it is and how much better it is than anything else.. it"s prudent to show that it really isn"t. It"s mostly because Brad came in here and suggested people drop 2 grand on a new computer to get acceptable performance when there are games that a) look better and b) run better on systems that are prevelant in today"s society.

This thread is coming to a beautiful point where we have WoW players, vanboys and now LOTRO-whatevers coming together and trying to assrape each other.

Oh well. Here"s my take on things. I"ve played WoW for a long time, I BETA"d LOTRO and I playing Vanguard for a month. I think I have a somewhat valid point of view. I would like to point out that I havn"t BETA"d LOTRO in quite sometime so if the combat/class mechanics are any different just chime in.

WOW
Stylized graphics. Quality art. Easily run on almost any machine from the last 5 years. Combat mechanics are top-notch. The game isn"t bugged except for some bleeding edge stuff. You can solo or you can group up to 60. There is some great un-instanced group content at level 70 in the form of spiffy quests. There are alot of things people can say they hate about WOW, I"ll list them

1 - Graphics are to cartoonish. It"s a valid argument. People enjoy and dislike a varied amount of graphic styles.

2 - To easy, to much solo content. This is a little iffey when it comes to validity. This is the games strength for the masses, however I don"t see how it effects the powergamer"s enjoyment of the game. However I can see your point of view on that. I"m nuetral on this subject. There"s good and bads points about it.

3 - Community. Well the game is full of idiots, however with a game with unprecedented numbers you will get an unprecedented amount of idiots. Who knows, but it could be proportional to any other MMO.

I never understood the hate of the game. But the one thing I never see anyone knocking is how the game plays. Combat mechanics, class interaction etc.

Vanguard
The game is poorly done for it"s release. There are far to many, perhaps not game breaking, but many game stopping bugs. Crashes, equipment failures, getting stuck that when you add all those up, it"s awful. The performance of the game is ok if you have the right setup, however its performance onn average is just ass. It just work well. I will admit that the game"s environment looks decent but only at a distance. The way different models interact with the ground or the surrounding area, just doesn"t mesh very well. And the plastic effect is there. However I think people exaggerate it more than nessescary.

Some of the classes are awesome in theory. I love the bloodmage. However it doesn"t seem like the game is itemized properly. The gear seems completely off balance. There are too many damn buffs in the game. Maybe if they spent more time developing class interaction it will turn out to be a good balance. Now it"s just silly.

Dungeons? I can"t really say how the dungeons are. i"ve experienced KE and Tsangs. Tsangs was an awful design. You run around some hallways just blasting through content non stop for hours. It"s not really fun or challenging. There are no puzzles to figure out. There is no strategy to fights. No need for off tanking. I won"t mention bugged pulls or anything. It seemed like the designers created these places quickly without putting any love in to them. Shiney on the outside, rotten in the middle. Nothing unique about them. However other dungeons could turn out better so I can"t comment on them.

LOTRO
Graphics are great, and runs real well. As many have read on the other thread. The gameplay just isn"t there. Perhaps they have changed it. I played almost every class up to level 6 or so. Nothing felt really unique and combat felt clumsy. I hope my account is still active, and I will give it some more testing.

There are alot of different aspects in this game that show alot of "promise". I like the monster thing. I have no idea what the end game is like, just like people don"t know what the end game is like in VG. We shall see. I won"t be purchasing this game when it"s released.

Here"s a litte bit of a conclusion. WOW"s gameplay and balance is by far superior to the three. LOTRO graphics are the best. VG, like all the reviews is about 60% of it all. Here"s the ultimate question however? Why does everyone hate the other game? I like WOW because of it"s polished gameplay and inside their own artistic constrictions, does a very good job of painting the environment. I don"t hate VG and LOTRO. There"s just so much people getting rabid about defending VG. I just don"t understand it.

I like Vanguard and LOTR both. Most of my friends don"t want to play Vanguard, so that means I don"t.

I prefer the graphic style of Vanguard, but I"ve "seen" New Targonor and Bree. NT is much bigger but I think Bree is move "alive." Needing to zone into most inns in LOTR doesn"t make sense to me.

LOTR does have a good subscription deal going right now. Pre-order and you get into open beta one week early. If you pre-order, you can take your open beta toon with you when retail opens. The monthly sub is also lower if you pre-order. $9.99/mo. or $199 lifetime sub.

I play WoW so I can stand around in Shattrath until the raid starts at 10pm since the core players have all beat the game and the rest can"t field a working team. Good luck getting enough people into Tempest Keep this decade that way.

Vanguard.. who the fuck has time to spend hours a day just jogging to a place, or waiting for others to jog to you? I find if funny that *NOW* the devs are starting to say gee, this is kinda retarded. People were saying this when the game was just words on paper. (despite the handful of psycho masochist weirdos who claim they enjoy it, its definately turning out to be a massive detriment to gameplay)

LOTRO - Working within the confines of someone elses massively popular IP, no fucking thanks.

Malakie Torsade said:

I"m glad Morderick is posting now. There was a gaping hole for a raving Vanboi since Tad got booted, and he is filling it nicely. Thanks, Mord!

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No problem I did sense an unbalance in the force and I felt compelled to step in!

As for speaking like an adult, I"m sorry but some of you needed some serious head bashing and wake up call. I don"t really care what you think of me as I am sure you don"t care what I think of you, but it definitly had to be said a few times.

Where is the content?, asks a poster. I"m not surprised you didnt see any content, because you rushed/grinded to 50 not even 2 months after release, skipping all content. Where is the content, it"s all the place you"ve skipped cause you only grinded xp.

There are many quests and dungeons to explore, if you are already 50, you haven"t seen more than 2% of the game?Dungeon finder

OK, the end game is not done/available yet. I concede this, but really... once again, grinding to 50 fast and bypassing everything.. please.

Gameplay? Just what is so great about Vanguard"s gameplay? Is it the countless number of un-inspired kill and fed-ex quests? The mediocre, half baked dungeons? The fucking chain system that requires you to crit on an opener, just to use them? Or is it the insane lag when your character even thinks about raiding?

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Mediocre half baked dungeons? I haven"t been in one yet, sorry. I had a blast in Trengal Keep, lyceum, Vol, etc.

I hope you aren"t referring to that bee cave in beta 2, right?..

Tell me... what is so great about WoW"s battle system or DaoC"s or ... ? I think Vanguard"s system stands out just fine compared to them and even moreso that fights don"t take a 5 secs blur. I have had a ton of fed-ex quests in WoW.. most of them were kill 10 mobs, give A to NPC_01.

I like, for example, that quest lines near Trengal Keep make me see various part of the dungeon to complete them. They tie in some lore with some dungeon crawling and make sure I miss nothing of that area.

The guy is a fucking clown. People in this thread might disagree with each other, vehemently, but this douche bag and his crying about getting out of the thread is just comedy gold.

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Hey, from all the thread I have seen in Vanguard, the clowns come from the VG-Bashers who keep posting over and over how VG sucks and how they don"t even play it. Recognize a familiar patern here Khol? I"ve had enough of Utnayan/Neric types spewing forth crap about a game they don"t even play and yet can"t even give game-breaking examples.

I can accept if you don"t like it. But constantly showing up in VG threads if you aren"t even playing it? I think that"s more acting like a clown.

Wolfen said:

$199 lifetime sub.

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I wonder why more companies haven"t done lifetime subscriptions. How do people feel about this mode of billing?

My guess is that it depends on the average retention period of an MMORPG player. If you work under the assumption that most players get a years worth of interest from a product and then move on, this certainly works in their favor.

Kreugen said:

I play WoW so I can stand around in Shattrath until the raid starts at 10pm since the core players have all beat the game and the rest can"t field a working team. Good luck getting enough people into Tempest Keep this decade that way.

Vanguard.. who the fuck has time to spend hours a day just jogging to a place, or waiting for others to jog to you? I find if funny that *NOW* the devs are starting to say gee, this is kinda retarded. (despite the handful of psycho masochist weirdos who claim they enjoy it)

LOTRO - Working within the confines of someone elses IP, no fucking thanks.

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So what kind of game would you like to see? Sci-fi, fantasy? PvP based, RP based, sandbox?

Morderick said:

I like, for example, that quest lines near Trengal Keep make me see various part of the dungeon to complete them. They tie in some lore with some dungeon crawling and make sure I miss nothing of that area.

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I hate to break it to you, but quests that send you into dungeons - even different parts of dungeons - is not remotely groundbreaking or new. If you think this makes VG unique, I think you need to check out other MMORPGs.

Morderick said:

Hey, from all the thread I have seen in Vanguard, the clowns come from the VG-Bashers who keep posting over and over how VG sucks and how they don"t even play it. Recognize a familiar patern here Khol? I"ve had enough of Utnayan/Neric types spewing forth crap about a game they don"t even play and yet can"t even give game-breaking examples.

I can accept if you don"t like it. But constantly showing up in VG threads if you aren"t even playing it? I think that"s more acting like a clown.

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Simple solution. Put your own private forum up where you and all your VG buddies can mingle and gush over the game.

kcxiv said:

I dont really think he is raving. He is bringing up valid points, if you dont think he is please point them out and give an explanation on why he is wrong. Can you do that?

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Other posters covered it pretty much. He posts like an angsty 15 year old that you"d expect to see over at gamefaqs. Rational and sensible posters (kcxiv, a few others) are needed to balance the constant stream of anti-VG venom. What isn"t needed is people just blurting juvenile drivel.

kohl said:

I hate to break it to you, but quests that send you into dungeons - even different parts of dungeons - is not remotely groundbreaking or new. If you think this makes VG unique, I think you need to check out other MMORPGs.

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See? Once again you don"t read well. I didn"t say this makes VG unique. I said there is content in VG and gave an example. There isn"t much innovation in games of this type at this point, including WoW.

The problem with posting in a reasonable well thought out tone is that it gets lost on the haters who cannot seem to see reason and often misunderstand when too many words are string together. Prime example:

"if you think quests that lead you to dungeons is anything new and ground breaking, I"ve got news for you"

Where did I say that was new or ground breaking? I enumerated it in a list of things that I enjoy about the game. It"s not unique, no, most MMOs are no longer unique, but the combination of things makes the game enjoyable. I like the graphics not looking like a cartoon, I like that level takes awhile which lets me see more and more content, I like the dungons and that there is usually a point for being there and I don"t feel a need to grind an instance over and over.

I like that everything has a random uncontrollable element (the other player). I like the combat system and the way the classes are created and play out. I like that the starting locations are almost all unique for each race (NOTE - I said almost all unique...).

I like that the game takes advantage of all the latest graphical bells and whistles. I simply like the game. It"s not my fault if you have an older computer, I am enjoying the game with no lag with beautiful graphics.

I don"t like ignorant posters blasting a game based on old information or for not giving it a fair shake.

Simple solution. Put your own private forum up where you and all your VG buddies can mingle and gush over the game.

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It"s funny that all your arguments can be exactly applied to yourself. Put your own private forum up where you and all your VG haters-who-don"t-even-play-it can mingle and gush over how you hate it.

To conclude, in response to this thread, simply put, all the idiotic nerd hatred is based on misinformation or old beta information.

Thread solved.

I don"t understand why everyone is blowing their load over the LOTRO graphics. They are very soft. The lighting and bloom effects do make the game look pretty good, but overall the graphic quality is pretty mediocre. Too much like Asheron"s Call 2.

LOTRO has some good qualities. I"ve been playing it fairly heavily lately, I got into the beta about a month and a half ago. I"ve got three characters over level 20 and the game plays very well. There are a lot of bugs with the sound and the game has a memory leak the size of Alaska, but beside that it seems to be a decent game. When you look at the overall skill chart it looks fairly sparce but that"s only because instead of ranking your skills up they get more powerful every level. They have a lot of neat ideas in the game and as someone already said the deed system is really nice. The trait system is completely awesome though. It really lets you customize your character. One example is for a Minstrel you can earn a certain trait that lets you turn a couple of your offensive skills into group party buffs instead, which is a big plus if you group a lot.

The dungeons in LOTRO are actually fairly challenging. A lot of people are whining and complaining about the difficulty of certain places because they aren"t being smart about things. They just rush in and make pulls instead of using CC and planning. The first really "hard" dungeon is the great barrows and on a lot of pulls you will need 1-2 CCs to pull it out. I"m really scared that the challenges in these dungeons will be taken out because a game like LOTRO isn"t going to attract hardcore gamers as much as other games might.

The tradeskills are kind of whack. They make it so you choose an arch of three professions, but in all but one of the archs there is a profession dependent on another profession you do not possess. It seems like a cheap way to force inter-dependency. Plus the whole system is very similar to WoW. Go out and gather, click a button, make stuff. That"s of course the standard stuff so it"s hard to complain.

Will I buy LOTRO? No. It doesn"t really give anything you can"t find in WoW besides Hobbits. I"m wagering it"ll be a success though.

PS. Burglars are freaking awesome