Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Grim1_sl said:

I'm surprised they thought that. Even in EQ, most players were not in high end raiding guilds, nor did they want to be. But EQ had a ton of content for everyone so it didn't matter.

WoW learned that lesson well. They catered to both casuals and hardcore. plus adding viable pvp, and it worked. I am amazed sometimes by how these simple lessons are so misunderstood by the mass of MMO devs. It's like they have willful blinders on.

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It's always going to be a balancing act with MMOs. To get the most players, you have to develop many different types of content to cater to each preference, but by doing so, you are decreasing the amount of resources for each part. Either you focus on a couple things and try to do them well or you try to do everything and worry about fleshing everything out after release. Blizzard was fortunate enough to not have to really worry much about resources due to past successes, but even they didn't do the greatest job at catering to every player when they launched (see: PvP).

I think Carbine was smart to make sure they had endgame content in place when they launched, but it shouldn't have been at the expense of solo content. You go the entire game being able to solo - and considering the way many quests are implemented and the amount of exp you get from doing non-vet adventures/dungeons are almost discouraged from grouping - to suddenly hitting the level cap and being expected to only progress through grouping. They made a big deal about being "hardcore", but that's really not a philosophy that comes into play until you are finished leveling, which is just like running people into a brick wall. Enjoying the game up until 49 is sort of meaningless, since the game takes a significant turn afterwards.

They are supposed to be doing some work to smooth out this ramp in difficulty (eg tutorial dungeon and better exp/rewards in pre-50 dungeons), but it's good to see they are going the other direction to close the gap by putting some more focus on giving people at level 50 more options than grouping or grinding daily zones.

The game was meh as hell. For fuck sakes the 2nd demonpeople zone was the god damn Barrens.

Fuck Carbine is so incompetent. I don't even know how to put it into words. It's the most dumbfounding MMO launch I have ever witnessed.

Didn't really mind it 1-50, I actually got two 50s in the month and a half or so I played. But once you hit 50 it's pretty much the worst MMO of all time. It's not the difficulty, or the grind, or whatever, it's just the content is so fucking miserable and not fun.

It's nothing like TBC era wow or whatever other thing poeple spout, that had good content when you hit max level, not the worst shit in the entire game, and quite possibly the entire genre.

This game was probably the single best piece of marketing for Warlords of Draenor, I'm going to buy it now just to bleach my eyes/brain/senses of Wildstar

bayr_sl said:

This game was probably the single best piece of marketing for Warlords of Draenor, I'm going to buy it now just to bleach my eyes/brain/senses of Wildstar

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Heheh, been thinking about giving WoW another go (new models coming, etc). But this game is similar in style, so thought I might try it instead. The early posts in this thread were so upbeat. Guess that boat has sailed.

Grim1_sl said:

Heheh, been thinking about giving WoW another go (new models coming, etc). But this game is similar in style, so thought I might try it instead. The early posts in this thread were so upbeat. Guess that boat has sailed.

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If my desktop hadn't taken a giant shit I would still be playing, everyone really has hit it so far - combat top notch but you have to have people to play with. I didn't get a chance to see how the new PvP changes swung things but it seemed like they were finally getting it right. The fact that I could buy my sub with in game currency helped a lot I'll admit, I wouldn't pay an actual sub to play so there is that. I would say if you can score a deal on the box it's worth a play if you didn't beta it just for the combat alone.

Heh, kind of amusing (if predictable) flip in the general view of this game from a year ago when I played Wildstar at Pax Prime and hated it.

I love people saying that this isn't at all like The Burning Crusade, except that it very much is like the The Burning Crusade. They just don't have friends to do the dungeons and they think that the two whole zones with completely optional dailies are what the game is all about.

The real 'grind' is fucking dungeon grinds and y'all motherfuckers aren't even at that level or capability. It was just like that in TBC. Except that there's no 24-hour lock on Vet Dungeons so it's completely easier than TBC.

Combat's Awesome
Raid's are Hard
PVP is fun if you're not doing walatiki temple 10000x and you're actually using pvp gear
Dailies don't matter. Even the amps/ability points you can just CX or PVP bag
Dungeon's have some items that are better than a lot of raid loot and the built in timer/medal allow you to challenge yourself

Unfortunately

Most people suck at games
Most people play by themselves
Most people compare this to TBC but don't remember TBC or joined TBC at the end
The itemization in raids sucks currently
The best weapons for most until high-end raid comes from fucking win-trading pvp


This game tried to have something for everyone and that's where they went wrong. Warplots were the 'structured large-scale pvp' fix, but never happened. 40 Man raids are becoming possible for non poopsockers, but not for 2-3 more weeks at least. Casuals aren't good enough to get in a dungeon with 4 other casuals and reliably silver medal shit.

They should just allow some dumbass token drop from adventures that allows them to buy a purple dungeon gear if they run 5x adventures. Then the normies would be happy and realize they suck not because of their gear, but because of themselves.

Disagree

Look at how many raiders from top 10 GA guilds have already quit the game? How many of those guilds are still here as we speak? Not because of ppl suck, It is because of the game sucks.

Tearofsoul_sl said:

Disagree

Look at how many raiders from top 10 GA guilds have already quit the game? How many of those guilds are still here as we speak? Not because of ppl suck, It is because of the game sucks.

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This. The raiding itself is good but everything around it is retarded.

Tearofsoul_sl said:

Disagree

Look at how many raiders from top 10 GA guilds have already quit the game? How many of those guilds are still here as we speak? Not because of ppl suck, It is because of the game sucks.

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It's actually because of how hard it was to get people attuned. There's bleed throughout game life and the problem with wildstar was when the hardcore bleed hit the GA/DS guilds, where were they going for members? All the casuals were struggling to attune and the elite poopsockers sure as fuck aren't spending time to attune recruits. They just sat and waited for other guilds to start bleeding then poached from them.

Xevy_sl said:

It's actually because of how hard it was to get people attuned. There's bleed throughout game life and the problem with wildstar was when the hardcore bleed hit the GA/DS guilds, where were they going for members? All the casuals were struggling to attune and the elite poopsockers sure as fuck aren't spending time to attune recruits. They just sat and waited for other guilds to start bleeding then poached from them.

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Yes and no.

You're dead on about bleed but the problem with WS was the rate wasa lot fasterthan other MMOs from the top guilds. Usually those poopsock guilds can run content and replenish over a six month period before the guilds go busto. In WS, the top guilds died out a lot faster. It's only now been three full months but it's an extremly safe bet to assume that most of the population (HC or otherwise) left this game or deliberated on it about a month and a half ago.

I don't have total proof but I'd point to the endgame where you don't even have 1% of the HC guilds on any server that was beating full endgame content and my guess is most of them thought with their gaming experience they would have by then (two months in), realized there was no relief troops coming (read forums, saw the sparse cities, etc) and decided to cut losses sooner than later.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that no one 'beat the game' in the hardest of hardcore guilds within 2-3months like every other game to ever exist. Whether it was designed thresholds (attunement of 40 people, key grinds), accidental (players coming and going after being attuned for 40 mans), or complete fuck-ups (most of DS was seen as 'unbeatable' until recent changes), this basically made it seem like even the best of the best can't beat it, so why can you xXJoeAverageGamerXx?

The extreme time commitment required outside of raid are tedious. The dailies alone take up an extra hour or two each day. The dungeon farming to min/max your gear will take 100+ hours assuming you have an efficient group and a decent amount of GA gear pieces to add slots to. What about raid consumable you need to prepare everynight before raid? What about the runes you need to craft for ever single piece of your upgrade? What about that glory 300 patterns farm? AMP/Ability points? All raiding guilds have static groups to run new recruits through all dungeons with no problem for GA. Same for Ohnma.

Is any of above task seem difficult to you? Probably not, but if you put them all together, it is a huge huge timesink, to the point that ppl finally say "fuck it, it is not worth my time. I could have more fun doing X,Y,Z."

I raided 4 months in beta (3-4hrs/day, 4-5days/week), help testing GA/DS, It was a blast. At launch? I was done by the time we finished Ohnma. I had lost all my motivations to keep up progressing my character.


Nah, tedious is not hard. Tedious is tedious.

Tearofsoul_sl said:

The extreme time commitment required outside of raid are tedious. The dailies alone take up an extra hour or two each day. The dungeon farming to min/max your gear will take 100+ hours assuming you have an efficient group and a decent amount of GA gear pieces to add slots to. What about raid consumable you need to prepare everynight before raid? What about the runes you need to craft for ever single piece of your upgrade? What about that glory 300 patterns farm? AMP/Ability points? All raiding guilds have static groups to run new recruits through all dungeons with no problem for GA. Same for Ohnma.

Is any of above task seem difficult to you? Probably not, but if you put them all together, it is a huge huge timesink, to the point that ppl finally say "fuck it, it is not worth my time. I could have more fun doing X,Y,Z."

I raided 4 months in beta (3-4hrs/day, 4-5days/week), help testing GA/DS, It was a blast. At launch? I was done by the time we finished Ohnma. I had lost all my motivations to keep up progressing my character.


Nah, tedious is not hard. Tedious is tedious.

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Dailies take a combined 30-45 minutes. Also, you don't need to do them.

Dungeons take 20 minutes to 50 minutes with a good group.

Raid consumables? If you manage to make 50gp per raid-night you'd be fine for consumables. Add another 50gp in there for repairs if your guild is bad.

300 patterns? Only 100 now. Cheaper if you get the Ohmna BOE.

Amp/Ability points are now located all over, but you can buy them from CX from tards now. Or just pvp and lose until you get them.

Real raiders needed money for consumables. That money they made from doing their dailies at elder cap. They elder capped by running storm talon or WoTW several times after/before raids.

This is 100% not as hard as people make it seem, which just proves my point that JoeAverageGamer69 isn't ready for this game.

Tearofsoul_sl said:

I raided 4 months in beta (3-4hrs/day, 4-5days/week), help testing GA/DS, It was a blast. At launch? I was done by the time we finished Ohnma. I had lost all my motivations to keep up progressing my character.

Nah, tedious is not hard. Tedious is tedious.

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Xevy_sl said:

This is 100% not as hard as people make it seem, which just proves my point that JoeAverageGamer69 isn't ready for this game.

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FYI: He did not just describe JoeAverageGamer. Not sure how you're going to use an obvious example of a hardcore gamer's schedule and then say"See? Casuals were never ready for this game."

Jackdaddio_sl said:

FYI: He did not just describe JoeAverageGamer. Not sure how you're going to use an obvious example of a hardcore gamer's schedule and then say"See? Casuals were never ready for this game."

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Raiding 3 nights a week and progressing isnt that hard in this game, sure you wont be elite and in Datascape but you can still progress. Never understood the mentality to raid 5 days or more in any mmo, even in wow only did 4 max.

This game is casual friendly, its just not bad player friendly.

I just got bored. I think I'm done with mmos, at least for the time being. It's the same game I've played for the last decade, just a different name and company.

Xevy_sl said:

Dailies take a combined 30-45 minutes. Also, you don't need to do them.

Dungeons take 20 minutes to 50 minutes with a good group.

Raid consumables? If you manage to make 50gp per raid-night you'd be fine for consumables. Add another 50gp in there for repairs if your guild is bad.

300 patterns? Only 100 now. Cheaper if you get the Ohmna BOE.

Amp/Ability points are now located all over, but you can buy them from CX from tards now. Or just pvp and lose until you get them.

Real raiders needed money for consumables. That money they made from doing their dailies at elder cap. They elder capped by running storm talon or WoTW several times after/before raids.

This is 100% not as hard as people make it seem, which just proves my point that JoeAverageGamer69 isn't ready for this game.

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I also heard the nerfs. But guess what, that doesn't stop raider quiting the game. And no, I am not trying to say average gamer isn't ready for the game. It is the other way around. The game isn't even good enough for hardcore gamer to stick around, left alone average gamer.

It is NOT because how bad average gamers are so they can't enjoy the game. It is because how bad the game is even the hardcore players don't enjoy the game. Forget about the average gamers.