World of Warcraft: Current Year

Please never compare wow raid mechanics to EQ again

ah yes who could forget the incredibly difficult to learn everquest mechanics like turn auto attack off when the monster gets to 10% hp. Cutting edge guilds like method would never be able to adapt to such complexity, especially not without using cheat programs like bigwigs, weak auras, and deadly boss mods

Noodleface said:

Please never compare wow raid mechanics to EQ again

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Says the guy who quits WoW because of a temper tantrum.

So if a guy was going to re-roll a new class on the guild server, which specs would be the most likely to pick up a pity spot on cleared raids every blue moon?

I'd prefer to level a Hunter, Warlock, Mage, Shaman, or Druid since I've never maxed any of those characters.

joz123 said:

Says the guy who quits WoW because of a temper tantrum.

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Regardless of what noodle may have done, wasn't around for it so don't care, you trying to compare EQ bosses to WoW bosses is laughable. Having one to two buttons to hit every so often and pure tank and spank really made for difficulty! Addons are a huge part of the reasons WoW bosses can be pretty complex. Blizz has stated that they wouldn't be able to make raid encounters with this level of complexity without the plethora of information the average player can access through weakauras, DBM, or mythic customs.

Vimeseh said:

Regardless of what noodle may have done, wasn't around for it so don't care, you trying to compare EQ bosses to WoW bosses is laughable. Having one to two buttons to hit every so often and pure tank and spank really made for difficulty! Addons are a huge part of the reasons WoW bosses can be pretty complex. Blizz has stated that they wouldn't be able to make raid encounters with this level of complexity without the plethora of information the average player can access through weakauras, DBM, or mythic customs.

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Sounds like bad design to me, but I feel arguments over how integral addons have become are like a dead horse. I'll laugh if/when Classic comes out there will only be minimal, if any, support for the addons that people have become reliant upon.

Vimeseh said:

Regardless of what noodle may have done, wasn't around for it so don't care, you trying to compare EQ bosses to WoW bosses is laughable. Having one to two buttons to hit every so often and pure tank and spank really made for difficulty! Addons are a huge part of the reasons WoW bosses can be pretty complex. Blizz has stated that they wouldn't be able to make raid encounters with this level of complexity without the plethora of information the average player can access through weakauras, DBM, or mythic customs.

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So if you didn't have DBM you wouldn't be able to raid? WoW raids aren't as complex as you make them out to be. You can easily memorize the patterns after a couple of tries if you aren't a complete dullard.

Zindan said:

Sounds like bad design to me, but I feel arguments over how integral addons have become are like a dead horse. I'll laugh if/when Classic comes out there will only be minimal, if any, support for the addons that people have become reliant upon.

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Bad game design is part of it. One simple mistake and you can wipe the raid or damn near half of it. That is one game mechanics I hated in WoW and it kind of forces players to use addons like DMD. Without the event notifications guilds will be wiping left and right. Not many players can actually pay attention to what they are doing in game and also have to pay attention to chat to see what attack a boss will do. Plus people get to so tunneled vision and DMB is their only saving grace. I have raided with players who never used DMB and they died constantly. Once they installed it they got better. Is it a crutch? Most definitely but it's a required if you want to win at this game. I remember Nagafen is BWL use to shout out each class ability. That was pretty obvious but alot wasn't going on. Imagine trying to do some of these boss fights, avoiding shit on the ground, avoiding 1 shot mechanics, dispelling, knowing where to taunt, and also having figure out the boss next attacks by reading chat or looking at him. Some people cannot process that much at one time.

I didn't quit wow. I still play. I've been subbed the entire expansion and I killed mythic Argus.

I would say that for the majority of the content, Add-ons are not a requirement. But for some of the later Mythic encounters, it would be a massive headache without them, if not bordering on impossible to do at cutting edge without some outside method of tracking things.

joz123 said:

So if you didn't have DBM you wouldn't be able to raid? WoW raids aren't as complex as you make them out to be. You can easily memorize the patterns after a couple of tries if you aren't a complete dullard.

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Spoken like somebody who raids LFR regularly.

Uhhh, what server is the guild on again? Horde, right? I thought it was on the first page, but I can't find it.

Hyjal horde

Nola said:

Bad game design is part of it. One simple mistake and you can wipe the raid or damn near half of it. That is one game mechanics I hated in WoW and it kind of forces players to use addons like DMD. Without the event notifications guilds will be wiping left and right. Not many players can actually pay attention to what they are doing in game and also have to pay attention to chat to see what attack a boss will do. Plus people get to so tunneled vision and DMB is their only saving grace. I have raided with players who never used DMB and they died constantly. Once they installed it they got better. Is it a crutch? Most definitely but it's a required if you want to win at this game. I remember Nagafen is BWL use to shout out each class ability. That was pretty obvious but alot wasn't going on. Imagine trying to do some of these boss fights, avoiding shit on the ground, avoiding 1 shot mechanics, dispelling, knowing where to taunt, and also having figure out the boss next attacks by reading chat or looking at him. Some people cannot process that much at one time.

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Excellent case for removing combat addons.

Penance said:

Spoken like somebody who raids LFR regularly.

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One could say that people using addons that tell them what to do and when are just using a different form of LFR. ;p

Nola said:

Are the Darkshore WQ rewards are bugged or what? Logged on 4 characters and 2 of them were the same loot rewards like two bracers and two helms.

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I've had the same reward 3x two days in a row.

a c i d.f l y said:

The Darkshore WQ rewards are random, unfortunately the options between them are very limited so likelihood of rolling the same reward is fairly likely. Shoulders and certain items might have higher rarity, which may calculate out to be more rare than intended. Having average items above 240, I don't really give a fuck, I'm just hoping to get the full tmog in the next three weeks across 1-3 characters.

I will say these WQ's are massively more irritating to complete than anything I'd dealt with prior, even on Argus, so I'm glad they're gated and limited to gear, with long refreshes and no cycling gold rewards or other shit. Right now I have zero incentive to log in other than the tmog, and pet token rewards from the legion mission board (that I'll buy lvl25 tokens with but not actually pet battle).

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What pet token rewards from legion mission boards? I haven't seen any since they changed the currency. Right now there's no way to get level 25 pet boost tokens, as the currency changed and the new currency isn't out yet, right? I still get shiny pet charms from my Zookeeper shoulder enchant, but you can't buy stones with the old currency anymore. Sucks cos I just got into pet battling and I have to properly grind them out to 25 first cos no stones.

I haven't played WoW in a manner that was even vaguely "serious" since The Burning Crusade. I wasn't even max level until the I think the third month of Legion? I was just fucking around a couple hours a week tops while maintaining a subscription. I kinda want to give this a go, had already bought the expansion, boosted a character, did some normal dungeons, and then did some heroic dungeons and I can already see that I need a host of macros and addons to actually play the character. Just trying to click back and forth between mobs and players so I can apply PW:S and such while also applying Shadow Word: Pain is a real problem. With EQ2 I could just target the tank and if I cast a beneficial spell it went onto them and if I cast a detrimental spell it went onto their target. If I had a monster target detrimental spells went to them and beneficial spells to their target. I guess here I need some kind of macro to achieve what I consider basic functionality? I saw one that will just stick Shadow Word : Pain on a legal target whenever I press it and that sounds pretty good but looking at the thing I could never figure out how to have made it myself. One of the big mechanics I'm working with is Atonement. Buff is applied when I cast some beneficial spells, heals those targets when I do spell damage, very straight forward. I'm going to need something to track that because with just the base UI that information is absent. Who has what Atonements of what durations? No idea.

This is like, super basic stuff of the class that I was working with the first day I took the character in to some group content and I already need help. I assume this is just how the game is? Blizzard has offloaded the UI stuff to the community and I'd just be an idiot to make the game harder for myself? I like game play quite a bit but I feel like just playing the game as a normal derp with no mods/macros/addons I'm just fighting with the interface to do the things I want to do. I've also put some time in reading through the info on IcyVeins.

I feel like I've got to put in this huge amount of time that is separate from playing to learn wtf I'm doing and that just playing the game would not reveal that information to me. As basically an outsider it's all very strange to me for the game to be like this. It's not anywhere near as immediately intimidating as Path of Exile was/is but it feels like there's a substantial hurdle for someone like me who is interested in not sucking.

You guys can say whatever the fuck you want about using add-ons while raiding, but dbm is required by 100% of the mythic guilds. There's a reason for it. Can a dude raid without it? Sure on aggramar I can stare at the offtanks health bars until I see him hit 8 debuffs or I can run an add-on that alerts me. I can tank Argus without dbm because it's so rote now. But what's the point? Why gimp myself for some foolish pride.

I regularly count the floating text above the mob and do math in my head to parse my DPS. Fuck addons