World of Warcraft: Current Year

I hate playing feral and guardian druid. The hitbox makes me want to punch things.

Well I was on Timeless Isle last night, getting chests and gear for my new 90 Mage, and damn I felt weak. Tigers and shit all over was raping me. I think the survivability of a Warlock, would be appreciated instead of the glass cannon effect. I mean, coming from a Paladin, and Druid, then I go Mage, and I can't take more than a few hits? wtf? I was soloing Death Adders and shit soon after getting to Timeless Isle on both of those, and I couldn't even imagine doing that now on my Mage.

Warlock sounds fun, if I level it affliction or demonology.

Were you frost? Need to make use of your two freezes and stun to burst it down.

Or play a hunter and make use of your masturbation hand.

I'm a Disc Priest and can solo that shit, ok free self heals but you can freeze and kite. The health goes down quickly and it'll be more DPS on a Mage?

I think I'm just used to face tanking stuff, and that's what I was trying to do. I started to get the hang of it, but I still missed just being able to beat the shit up without any question of whether I'd live or die.

Crone_sl said:

I think I'm just used to face tanking stuff, and that's what I was trying to do. I started to get the hang of it, but I still missed just being able to beat the shit up without any question of whether I'd live or die.

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Thats pretty much it. Ive played self healing classes forever and picked up a mage and felt the same way as you. Kreugen is right in that you need to use your utility as a Mage way more than a someone that passively heals. Though, once you pick up the Heal Buff, Damage Buff and Stat Buff - your problems should lessen significantly. I had most of my Timeless Gear ready to put on my Mage though, and didnt worry about the Burdens of Eternity. Its way less annoying to just farm the shit on your Paladin and put it on your Mage and then take him straight into LFR ToT for a weapon and then straight into LFR SoO.

Monk tank is up to 74 and this shit is a full time job. Already having to deal with shitty healers going "not my fault, you're just squishy" after I die. Weird, asshole, the last 10 healers didn't have a problem. Playing this class well is truly exhausting, I've never played a class in this game I couldn't handle if I was tired. I was nodding off last night and doing about 60-70% of my normal DPS and I excused myself from the group. Also the first class I've played where I'm having to basically be "all keyboard", the mouse isn't fast enough to do dick with anymore. Having a blast, but the mechanics of playing this class well and getting a glimpse of what being a great 25 man tank is going to require with him is daunting.

Oh, and on top of all that, my main damage mitigation ability I don't even get for another level. I've also somehow through gear choices ended up with my stamina being double my agility. I'd worry about it but at the rate I'm replacing gear it seems pointless right now.

The monk class is designed pretty poorly. That's the character I got to 522 ilvl in a few days. The amount of work you have to do to be on par with the other classes is stupid. Literally have to play a piano piece with your keyboard compared to 3-4 keys with other tanks.

All other tanks classes seem like "I got better gear, so I became a better player". Must be nice.

Huh? With any regularity, you use fewer buttons than a competent paladin or warrior (and the paladin's busy futzing with Clique to make sure their utility responses are properly targeted/in-range). Monk's complexity isn't from the # of abilities used, it's from resource management and proper position management. Moving to scoop up/preserve your heal orbs, knowing when your resources and buff duration are high enough to be able to afford to Purify, and knowing when to pool Energy/CHI to deal with specific fight mechanics. The only semi-annoying button thing is having to know the correct places to slip in your Tiger Palms without GCD-clipping Keg Smash cooldowns or something. It's easy to be a fail monk by mismanaging your spheres, guards and purifies, but that's not bad class design, that's *good* class design. If someone doesn't pay attention, they *should* fail.

And hell, at even normal raid level gear you can damn near just macro all of your abilities to also /cast Elusive Brew. So much crit rating. So, so much crit rating.

Also, Expel Harm lets Monk rival Deathknight for DERP DERP SURVIVE FOREVER LALALALA one-button spam idiot mechanics. Trivializes anything that does HUEG HITZ.

Yup. This is an RPG, not SFII Turbo. I shouldn't have to do a hadouken on a keyboard just to mitigate damage.

edit: They're not paying attention to the game, but to stacks and cds (the ui). You could make an argument they're paying attention to the environment for orbs possibly, but it's too much work comparatively. Haha no, a paladin doesn't do shit.

And that goes to another tangent, why the fuck did they ever add a 2nd resource to manage. Fucking seriously. Not only that, but when they gutted talents they took abilities AWAY from the main class. I can no longer cast holy light as ret? Get the fuck outta here.

The only short CD that matters in the monk kit is Keg Smash (Chi Wave can be delayed ad infinitum, since it does pathetic healing and damage now, and doesn't generate resources. Just a better button to push than Tiger Palm. Chi Burst is only actually useful on a few stack-up fights, and even then it's not really fabulous). If you're using Guard on CD in raid encounters, you're generally one of the bad Monk Tanks. If you don't have enough crit for Elusive Brew to be a near-100% uptime buff, then you should just be holding onto it for high-incoming-hits portions of the fight.


Also, the tank's role on raids is boring as hell in 9/10 fights (WOO A TAUNT SWAP), so thank jesus that the class actually has semi-interesting mechanical tensions to help you stay awake.

I enjoyed my Everquest Rogue (Backstab AND Evade? Are you people trying to work me to death!), and I enjoy playing a Brewmaster in WoW. Despite their vast mechanical differences.

Kuro_sl said:

Huh? With any regularity, you use fewer buttons than a competent paladin or warrior (and the paladin's busy futzing with Clique to make sure their utility responses are properly targeted/in-range). Monk's complexity isn't from the # of abilities used, it's from resource management and proper position management. Moving to scoop up/preserve your heal orbs, knowing when your resources and buff duration are high enough to be able to afford to Purify, and knowing when to pool Energy/CHI to deal with specific fight mechanics. The only semi-annoying button thing is having to know to the correct places to slip in your Tiger Palms without GCD-clipping Keg Smash cooldowns or something. It's easy to be a fail monk by mismanaging your spheres, guards and purifies, but that's not bad class design, that's *good* class design. If someone doesn't pay attention, they *should* fail.

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Oh, I agree 100% and I love the challenge and find a lot of fun in it, but to say it doesn't require at least if not more attention than any other class spec isn't the case. It's a constantly "on" play style. If I switch in my surv hunter or shadow priest unless I'm trying to put up huge numbers then I could raid drunk while watching TV. Also agree it is good class design and it allows for a lot of opportunity to stand apart from the crowd. I have a monk buddy that main tanks his guilds 25 man heroics and he's made a name for himself among his server by being really good at something where not a lot of people shine at it. Call it ego inflation but being the best monk tank seems like a shinier badge than being the best any other tank.

And to Kuro I've had Monk tanks when playing my other toons that would delay trash pulls until the CD popped on Guard. No fucking clue what was going on there.

Dumar_sl said:

Yup. This is an RPG, not SFII Turbo. I shouldn't have to do a hadouken on a keyboard just to mitigate damage.

edit: They're not paying attention to the game, but to stacks and cds (the ui). You could make an argument they're paying attention to the environment for orbs possibly, but it's too much work comparatively. Haha no, a paladin doesn't do shit.

And that goes to another tangent, why the fuck did they ever add a 2nd resource to manage. Fucking seriously. Not only that, but when they gutted talents they took abilities AWAY from the main class. I can no longer cast holy light as ret? Get the fuck outta here.

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I bet they reduce the number of cooldowns people have again. I am betting each classes loses atleast 1 cooldown ability with some of them losing 2-3. I think they are very concious of the fact that all the competition coming up are offering much less bloated games.

Simply put, the Monk tank is not a piano. Most of the shit is based on the situation and a few more abilities are debuffs that you apply to the target. Not completely necessary if you are just trying to hold aggro. Which could be said for all the Tanks. I would also refrain from your personal statement that the class is poorly designed as well. Did a designer say that, or just you? Because I really dont see your experience in LFR/ilvl 522 giving you a valuable assessment of the class and its abilities.

Salshun, you're highlighting your biggest problem and thats the fact you are stacking Stamina. You've built him just like a Plate Tank would be built from the sounds of it. I have an ilvl of 565 and except for the Meta Legendary Gem, I dont have a single bit of Stamina gemmed elsewhere. I use an Agility Flask and Agility Food. You seem to know all of this, already. But Im making sure. You should be able to keep Elusive Brew up throughout the fight and and a FOUR BUTTON rotation will keep aggro on all targets. Using Guard, Fortifying Brew and Diffuse Magic for those truly "Oh Shit" moments. The class is not work, unless your group is pants on head retarded.

Roll and Rushing Jade Wind are all the buttons you neeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

The piano reference wasn't meant as just mashing of keys, but of timing. You simply have to do/monitor too much as a monk compared to other tanks.

Daidraco_sl said:

Because I really dont see your experience in LFR/ilvl 522 giving you a valuable assessment of the class and its abilities.

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Indeed.

I just hit 81 on my Arms Warrior. Up until this point, I've mostly been mashing buttons with Thunderclap/Whirlwind for AOE and Slam for single target. I'll use Overpower when I'm low on rage, but other than that, I haven't really been paying too close to priorities. Getting Colossus Smash made me think about reprioritizing things. Should I be using Heroic Strike/Cleave when I've got a lot of rage?

Also, not having a passive movement speed increase is starting to annoy me. Everyone else seems to be able to get places faster while all warriors have is Charge. Sometimes I can Intervene a party member who's in front of me, but that's about it.

Was messing around on my DK last night soloing WoTLK stuff. Tried soloing Sarth 3d 10 for the first time, was pretty easy but tried 25m before that and just could not out dps in time. Always got him to about 10% and Tenebron would overwhelm me with the adds and debuff. And I cant for the life of me come more than 50% on the gunship battle. DKs ilvl is only 503 so im sure with some upgrades and if I get lucky on a few Burdens I might have a better shot, but damn gunship was a bitch.