World of Warcraft: Current Year

As soon as they added target marker icons everyone wanted to use the Orange condom. No sooner than they were added we started getting LOL 4 priests to mind control or mass shackle adds and everyone had to learn to write the macros for that shit.

A good WoW raider could do any and all EQ content. The reverse is not true.

Many of the harder encounters in WoW have taken top guilds over *500* attempts to defeat. Game is easy bros, no skill involved. It's not like encounters ever do things that throw you off from that pre-programmed optimal rotation that you don't ever have to tune specifically for your current gear on your own. Easy peasy. There's nothing to throw off your timing, and because everything happens in every rep of an encounter in exactly the same way and there's no RNG factor whatsoever, you don't have to make any sort of adjustments. You've got mods to tell you to move when it's already too late to move, or mods that tell you what ability to push that are usually one global behind and will never get you that last 2 or 3 percent you need to beat enrage, or mods that cover your screen with information that you can't possibly track along with all the other crap flying at you. Hell, just crafting a UI that presents information in a way that you can follow is a one size fits all thing that you can just download pre-set and never have to adjust.

Sure, a lot of this goes away if you aren't pushing to be top 100 or even top 500. But there's a major catch-22 - if you don't have the kind of players who want to push for a high ranking, then you aren't likely to have the kind of players that are able to complete heroics in a lifetime of attempts. And it snowballs. Not really interested in heroics? Well then you'll wind up with people who get their shit pushed in by normals. Having a hard time with normals? Well run a flex pug, and set the gear score 40 points higher than you actual gear so the pugs carry your fail shitfest to victory.

Anyway, all old arguments that non-retards already understand anyway.

And they've listened about the loot thing - Mythic raids in MOP give unique armor. Shouldermountains and spinning fire breathing flashy thingies dialed up to 11. Plus, with only the one 20 man version of the raid, they've finally fixed the tuning idiocy they introduced back in WOLK.

Kreugen_sl said:

Many of the harder encounters in WoW have taken top guilds over *500* attempts to defeat. Game is easy bros, no skill involved. It's not like encounters ever do things that throw you off from that pre-programmed optimal rotation that you don't ever have to tune specifically for your current gear on your own. Easy peasy. There's nothing to throw off your timing, and because everything happens in every rep of an encounter in exactly the same way and there's no RNG factor whatsoever, you don't have to make any sort of adjustments. You've got mods to tell you to move when it's already too late to move, or mods that tell you what ability to push that are usually one global behind and will never get you that last 2 or 3 percent you need to beat enrage, or mods that cover your screen with information that you can't possibly track along with all the other crap flying at you. Hell, just crafting a UI that presents information in a way that you can follow is a one size fits all thing that you can just download pre-set and never have to adjust.

Sure, a lot of this goes away if you aren't pushing to be top 100 or even top 500. But there's a major catch-22 - if you don't have the kind of players who want to push for a high ranking, then you aren't likely to have the kind of players that are able to complete heroics in a lifetime of attempts. And it snowballs. Not really interested in heroics? Well then you'll wind up with people who get their shit pushed in by normals. Having a hard time with normals? Well run a flex pug, and set the gear score 40 points higher than you actual gear so the pugs carry your fail shitfest to victory.

Anyway, all old arguments that non-retards already understand anyway.

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Half the people "Discussing" "Arguing" whatever, dont understand what you're saying. Its been years now that the "cool kids" have been saying WoW doesnt take skill. They beat LFR, Flex or Normal and think that is enough. When most of the encounters in those difficulties dont even have some of the major mechanics that Heroic has, much less the tight tuning. (I fucking loved Heroic Sha of Pride on my Mage. Shit was fun. Such a boring encounter when I played my Tank.) So if they cant relate to what you're saying, you're never going to get through. They are going to have to consciously make the choice to do Heroic content, or what is soon to be Mythic content and justify the work needed to do that difficulty to themselves.

Abefroman_sl said:

A good WoW raider could do any and all EQ content. The reverse is not true.

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I assume that most who would bother posting here are like myself and done both. I don't know how anybody who has raided heroic the past couple of xpacs could compare the two games. If EQ raids were introduced today they'd get rolled in no time.

Yeah WoW has done a lot to make its entry level content retard proof, but it has simultaneously introduced much harder content on the other end of the scale.

The major difference is 500 reps of an EQ encounter would take five years.

I doubt we attempted AOW more than five times.

Depends really, EQ2 raids were somewhat hard but by design alone EQ and WoW raiding is fundamentally different.

The skill ceiling definitely got out of control, so you're right, most won't even know what I'm talking about. PVP especially had just gotten ridiculous. WOD is cutting back abilities for good reason - not just the bloated number of abilities but the skill gap it creates. It's just too much.

I just said fuck it all and played a hunter. Weak on the top end but near flat skill factor, heh. When you see a bad hunter its like.. how is that even possible?

Kreugen_sl said:

The skill ceiling definitely got out of control, so you're right, most won't even know what I'm talking about. PVP especially had just gotten ridiculous. WOD is cutting back abilities for good reason - not just the bloated number of abilities but the skill gap it creates. It's just too much.

I just said fuck it all and played a hunter. Weak on the top end but near flat skill factor, heh. When you see a bad hunter its like.. how is that even possible?

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Too bad most of the time when you see a Hunter, the first thing you think is "retarded."

It gives a certain satisfaction to out damage the raid and hear talk of "overpowered hunters" knowing full well that they should top out at 90% of a mage, lock or rogue.

lol @ discussion about wow being a joke vs <insert mmo here>. Unnerfed hard mode mimiron + 0 light yogg saron + muru + lich king want to have a talk with you

Also 4horsemen in 40man naxx, and cthun in AQ for just measure.

Overall folks are right about how gimp raiding in EQ1 was but for a while it was both tough and difficult. I'm talking about after FoH and other major guilds left for WoW of course. It didn't last but I'm thinking about circa Gates of Discord, when Enchanters had to keep 15-30 mobs mezzed for up to a half hour and every mob would kill you in one round so you just couldn't let it drop. I was one of those Enchanters and the people I was playing with were amongst the most gifted game players I've ever come across (we world firsted pretty much the whole of the expansion).

Let's be honest, what sets us as a community apart isn't necessarily being the best game players, it's being pig headed sons of bitches who don't know to stay down when we lose.

How bad is it to finish the legendary cloak line and/or get the dumb weapons from Garrosh right now? I saw something in the e-mail about reactivate free for 7 days and some buff yada yada.

Might just dick around for a bit.

As a rogue I loved burn fights when I got to dps more than DDR, otherwise keeping pace with hunters can be problematic.

There are very few fights in SoO where a melee DPS doesnt have to work 10 times harder than a ranged DPS. That was the whole reason for me making a Mage instead of just using my Monk. There is just no point outside of vanity to be a melee DPS. Watching for any type of Cleave, positioning, having to run away every 5 seconds, then back, having to run all the way to adds, watch for cleave from them, run all the way back to the boss, rinse and repeat. All the while, the ranged DPS is just tab targeting and staying in rotation. Maybe side stepping a puddle or some such non sense.

Well you may laugh at me for being bad, but the skill gap progression is probably the reason I lost interest in the game, I went from literally playing my class at 100% potential(1234,1234,1234 was my dps rotation), slowly over time to maybe 90%, if that, and the game went from relaxing to stressful at the same time. Fucking hell, I hate those Japanese dodge bullet type games. Maybe that's why I ended up quitting during early Cata and Mists... I couldn't put my finger I it, but I agree with Kruegans post 1000% it's not that I "can't" hang out at the top of the diamond league of Starcraft 2... It's that I don't WANT to via my MMO. Especially when it means I can't be friends with gold/silver players at all because they fuck up my progression.

Daidraco_sl said:

Half the people "Discussing" "Arguing" whatever, dont understand what you're saying. Its been years now that the "cool kids" have been saying WoW doesnt take skill. They beat LFR, Flex or Normal and think that is enough. When most of the encounters in those difficulties dont even have some of the major mechanics that Heroic has, much less the tight tuning. (I fucking loved Heroic Sha of Pride on my Mage. Shit was fun. Such a boring encounter when I played my Tank.) So if they cant relate to what you're saying, you're never going to get through. They are going to have to consciously make the choice to do Heroic content, or what is soon to be Mythic content and justify the work needed to do that difficulty to themselves.

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Yes, they did a very good job of making heroic fights require a significant change of strategy as opposed to normal (or flex) this expansion. Especially in ToT and SoO.

Get into PvP it has all the thrills and chills of raiding with quicker matches and queue times! Still have the same problem of retaining partners/guilds etc that you have with PvE.