World of Warcraft: Current Year

Kuriin

Just a Nurse
4,046
1,024
Depends really, EQ2 raids were somewhat hard but by design alone EQ and WoW raiding is fundamentally different.
Most definitely. I remember having to fight the Gods in Everquest 2 and the problem was, they were not instanced. Well, not so much a problem. Except the servers could not handle 150 or so players in one area. M'uru, Naxx, hell Ragnaros back in the day, were God awful retardedly difficult. Nothing was more exciting than getting those bosses down after wiping 15 or so times/night. Ugh.; p
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,834
1,865
Yes, they did a very good job of making heroic fights require a significant change of strategy as opposed to normal (or flex) this expansion. Especially in ToT and SoO.
Like I said, heroic difficulty is harder, but it's not fun nor rewarding.
 

GonzytheMage

Golden Knight of the Realm
627
102
Like I said, heroic difficulty is harder, but it's not fun nor rewarding.
You are right, but the suck part is guilds good enough to do normal in a 3-5 month window are too retarded to do heroic. Then your left in the awkward situation of being too good at normal but too bad for heroic. Nothing worse than beating your head on encounter that are just beyond your crews skill level.
 

Vulg

Golden Knight of the Realm
245
173
Get into PvP it has all the thrills and chills of raiding with quicker matches and queue times! Still have the same problem of retaining partners/guilds etc that you have with PvE.
As much as I love WoW's raid game, I can't stand how Blizz has implemented PvP - I look to other games for that fix.

Like I said, heroic difficulty is harder, but it's not fun nor rewarding.
That's a function of who you're playing with. Raiding with some guilds may be a ragefest shit show, but with the right group of guys it's both fun and rewarding. I'm fucking old, but hearing nerd screams after killing a tier's final boss is still pretty amazing.
 

xmod2_sl

shitlord
37
0
You are right, but the suck part is guilds good enough to do normal in a 3-5 month window are too retarded to do heroic. Then your left in the awkward situation of being too good at normal but too bad for heroic. Nothing worse than beating your head on encounter that are just beyond your crews skill level.
This was amplified when you had a shared lockout on bosses. You had your fairweather raiders who were just happy to farm normals, your core raiders who wanted to work on heroics and then the floaters with shit attendance. Then you got to fight with them all about whether you should continue working on heroics or just clear past to continue to gear up. I definitely preferred raid leading in the TBC era, where the lack of a gear reset stratified the raiders a bit so I at least knew what I was getting recruiting t5/t6 raiders and you didn't get to do later fights unless you beat the earlier ones. We never got close to KJ, but it was still a better experience as a guild leader than the 'everyone is killing everything' shitshow that dumps so many disparate raider types into the same recruitment pool.
 

Tol_sl

shitlord
759
0
People get all glossy eyed about EQ because it was more punishing at lower levels and non-raiders had a group focused game that required them to be mildly competent if they wanted to do pickup raids and dungeon groups. For most of the small group content in wow, there's absolutely nothing that makes you pay any attention outside of challenge modes, and those are basically a "do it once" thing. I'm not saying EQ should be our guiding star of game design, but EQ was alsoa decade and a half agoand it feels like some of this stuff really hasn't evolved very well for all the time it's had between eq and today.

For raids: The only challenging stuff seems to be a fraction of the content that you need to spend week after week gearing up for, and that's kind of a let down. It's partially because I play during off hours, but the endgame scene on my server also seems pretty desolate. People don't give a shit about rewards for heroics in general. I might guildhop soon and try to start looking for heroic groups, but if that doesn't pan out I can't say I'm too heartbroken because the thought of doing the same SoO bosses that I'm already kind of sick of with extra mechanics isn't all that interesting. There's no driving fire under my heels like there was to see the plane of time or endgame velious or whatever. The mystique of "new area, new enemies, new loot" is gone.

It's also kind of disappointing that anything prior to the current raid tier, even things within the same expansion (ToT, ToES) are utterly obsolete and not worth revisiting. It might be a server to server thing, but it feels like people on my server aren't messing with heroics if it's not on farm already because WoD is on the horizon, and that means imminent gear resets. What percentage of the playerbase is doing heroics? Because on my server it really seems like a minority thing.

So for a lot of people that leaves:
LFR: Faceroll while sleeping, why does this shit even exist?
Flex: Standard faceroll
Normal: Faceroll after you've kicked out any bad pugs who are asleep at their keyboards. Seriously, watching players in normal mode constantly stand in the fire reaffirms my belief that most players just fucking suck and that they are in fact the biggest challenge in MMO gaming. I saw some damage role shaman doing ~55k dps and the same four retards standing in garrosh's purple cone every time last normal run I did.

So they nailed the heroic mode -great. But why make the other 3 so easy in comparison, and not have a more steady difficulty across all four modes? The easy-easy-easy-hard curve seems really weird to me.

I'm not saying that it hasn't always been the case that a small % of the playerbase sees the top end content, but it feels like in wow the difference is that most people justdon't give a shitbecause the reward for heroic is seeing the exact same zones and getting the exact same gear with 16 extra ilvls on it. It all feels kind of clinical.

TLDR: I want a more consistent difficulty curve, fun and challenging content for single groups, and the raiding treadmill to not consist of the same content over 4 different difficulties - with only the final tier being anything even remotely interesting. I would absolutely love to have heroic mechanics (like the moving lasers on the siegecrafter belts) in the more forgiving difficulties. I think that would be a decent way to make lower tiers of raids feel more interesting.
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
8,501
10,721
The easy-easy-easy-hard curve seems really weird to me.
That's because you're above the first three levels. You have a hard time distinguishing the difficulty between them, but it's real. There's a sizeable chunk of players who won't be able to do anything beyond a LFR, a number who aren't going to cut it in normal and should remain in Flex, and a lot who will never be able to graduate to Heroics. Despite the "easy-easy-easy" qualifier, those three are really different kind of easy.

Now that you don't have enough achievements to datamine the % of players in each category, it's easy to think everyone behind you is somehow mixed in the same lump. But no.
 

Tantrik

Golden Knight of the Realm
384
115
Normal mode wasn't so easy this expansion if you weren't overgeared for it going in. ToT after the first boss, SoO steadily got harder as you went. First kill Garrosh on normal mode was a fun little challenge in the low 550 ilvl avg.
 

Vulg

Golden Knight of the Realm
245
173
So they nailed the heroic mode -great. But why make the other 3 so easy in comparison, and not have a more steady difficulty across all four modes? The easy-easy-easy-hard curve seems really weird to me.
The WoW forums were inundated with people bitching about how impossible Normal mode was for casual players. Even now I still see some bitching about Flex.

Sounds like you should have been raiding Heroic all along.
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
I haven't played since I raided the first Cataclysm raid. Do people feel MoP + month sub (so about $30 if I buy the CD key online) is worth it for leveling 85-90? As in, leveling content is enjoyable? I might dip into some dungeons and the flex raiding too. Just wondering if the content is fun. Don't care about the gear grind or how it'll all be pointless when WoD releases. I think I'd like to kill Garrosh at least once, because fuck that guy.
 

Rombo

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
199
I haven't played since I raided the first Cataclysm raid. Do people feel MoP + month sub (so about $30 if I buy the CD key online) is worth it for leveling 85-90? As in, leveling content is enjoyable? I might dip into some dungeons and the flex raiding too. Just wondering if the content is fun. Don't care about the gear grind or how it'll all be pointless when WoD releases. I think I'd like to kill Garrosh at least once, because fuck that guy.
Worth it and theres more than enough content for over a month. Id be suprised you see everything in that time frame. Lvling content is lvling content. Its alright? lol
 

Guzrog

<Gold Donor>
416
79
I haven't played since I raided the first Cataclysm raid. Do people feel MoP + month sub (so about $30 if I buy the CD key online) is worth it for leveling 85-90? As in, leveling content is enjoyable? I might dip into some dungeons and the flex raiding too. Just wondering if the content is fun. Don't care about the gear grind or how it'll all be pointless when WoD releases. I think I'd like to kill Garrosh at least once, because fuck that guy.
It isn't horrible. Personally I don't think it is all that interesting, MoP just - isn't to me. That said it is far and away better than Cataclysm and feels a lot less like a phased rail road. You'll likely enjoy it the first time at least enough to finish it. If you can hold off you may as well wait until they release the pre-patch for WoD as things will be 300x quicker probably. That said it is already very fast and you'll likely skip 2-3 zones by the time you hit 85. Especially if you do some dungeons (which are also pretty meh.)
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,834
1,865
MoP is boring as all hell leveling, i honestly i did the rare hunter quest and killed every named and picked up every special item/weapon/chest for that bonus xp. Id almost say its quicker to name farm than level from quest alone but thats only if youre capable.
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
9,447
25,536
Timeless Isle leveling is pretty fast and painless, but if it's been a decade since the last time you just ground mobs it can be a bit off-putting.
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,711
11,373
MoP is up there with the best content they've ever done for the game.
I liked MoP leveling zones too. I was kind of bummed out that I would usually reach lvl 90 way before I ever finished the second zone. It always felt like they planned on making max level as 95 instead, for MoP. When I went through those zones for the achievements, its literally hours of content just wasted. The majority of the WoW pop will never do those quests and will probably only ever just explore them and do the Cloak Factions. I didnt quite care for the first zone in MoP either, but thats probably cause Ive done it three/four times now cause thats your only option for that level range.

Heres the new raid setup, since some of you dont seem to know about it?

raid.jpg
 

Ao-

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Bronze Donator>
7,889
543
LFR you still queue in the LFR way, but normal and heroic are setup like Flex, right?
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Any word on what loot system each tier is using? LFR/Flex style takes a lot of the chore out of it and makes PUG raiding more feasible, but adds extra RNG fuckery, so it can be a "fun" tradeoff.
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,711
11,373
Yea. Normal and Heroic are like Flex is now. Also, they can be cross server. Mythic offers neither of those options.

LFR has no tier loot, and basic rewards. Normal and Heroic have tier loot. Mythic offers "ornate" loot. Whatever that is.