Worth going all Apple?

Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Cor_sl said:
ThunderBolt isn't Apple tech -- it was designed by Intel. [Edit - Just checked; Intel designed it in collaboration with Apple. If I'm reading this right, Intel owns the spec. (]http://www.anandtech.com/show/5425/w...anytime-soon)]It used to be known as 'light peak' before it was rebranded to ThunderBolt. Why would Apple get royalties?

And I don't think ThunderBolt is going away any time soon, either. Intel isn't going to back down on this. They've spent a ton of cash developing the tech and they're in the position to force it onto the computer industry, especially if AMD continues on its path to irrelevance. I wouldn't be surprised if ThunderBolt is mandatory as part of the next revision of the Ultrabook spec.

And who cares about the random retards running 5,400 rpm drives? They're not the people ThunderBolt is aimed at. I personally don't have any use for it so I'll buy USB peripherals in the future. My brother will, though. He transfers hundreds of gigabytes worth of data each day at work and his ThunderBolt hard drive has made a difference for him.

ThunderBolt is going to be used to drive the next generation monitors, too. I have money set aside in my account ready to buy a retina class 5120 x 2880 monitor when they finally hit (Anand from Anandtech estimates sometime in the next 18 months) -- ThunderBolt is going to be needed to drive that thing.

ThunderBolt isn't useful very useful now but it will be in the future, especially if Intel decides to push it hard.
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Only thing thunderbolt will ever be useful for a very small select category of monitors and hard drives. The general public(aka 99.9% of the people who buy hardware) will never own any hardware that will come close to needing the bandwidth that thunderbolt can provide. If anything thunderbolt will be used only in commercial settings, and even then I doubt it.
 
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Wolfen_sl

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jooka_sl said:
Only thing about Apple I actually like is the trackpads on the laptops. Shit is badass. Other than that, it is overpriced crap. My work gives me the laptop but the cost of one? I would never buy one for personal use.
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Very true about the trackpads. I don't know why PC vendors can't seem to get it right, but Apple's trackpads are light years better.
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Only thing thunderbolt will ever be useful for a very small select category of monitors and hard drives. The general public(aka 99.9% of the people who buy hardware) will never own any hardware that will come close to needing the bandwidth that thunderbolt can provide. If anything thunderbolt will be used only in commercial settings, and even then I doubt it.
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Let's not forget daisy chaining thunderbolt devices. On one thunderbolt port I have a little gay 6TB (2x3TB RAID0) setup, the Pegasus R6 12TB raid setup, a beautiful Apple thunderbolt display, and a PCI expansion port for something my wife does. And let's not forget that Apple thunderbolt display has a gigabit port on it, which I link aggregate to my Mac's gigabit port to connect to my home network, etc. Can you use your USB3 port on your Windows box to plug in a PCI expansion box? And can you daisy chain USB3 devices?
 
Alkorin

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Really, Aychamo? Really?

USB has this thing called a "hub". Jesus christ. There are also a plethora of USB3 ethernet adapters out there. Fucking ridiculous. Do you even bother looking your shit up? And let's not forget the many, many, MANY things that USB can do that Thunderbolt can't. You know, because no one designs for Thunderbolt. Kinda like no one designed for Firewire.

I mean, your one saving grace is that I can't find a PCI expansion box that uses USB3. So fucking what? There are a million that use the already-existing PCI/PCI-e bus. I don't care how I get there, as long as I can get there.
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Alkorin_sl said:
Really, Aychamo? Really?

USB has this thing called a "hub". Jesus christ. There are also a plethora of USB3 ethernet adapters out there. Fucking ridiculous. Do you even bother looking your shit up? And let's not forget the many, many, MANY things that USB can do that Thunderbolt can't. You know, because no one designs for Thunderbolt. Kinda like no one designed for Firewire.

I mean, your one saving grace is that I can't find a PCI expansion box that uses USB3. So fucking what? There are a million that use the already-existing PCI/PCI-e bus. I don't care how I get there, as long as I can get there.
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Lots of nerd rage / anger in your post. So is it your position that USB3, with half the bandwidth, and fewer technical capabilities, is comparable and equivalent to Thunderbolt, which has twice the bandwidth, can transfer twice as much power to devices, can daisy chain, and supports PCI Express and DisplayPort protocols?
 
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Silence_sl

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Alkorin_sl said:
Really, Aychamo? Really?

USB has this thing called a "hub". Jesus christ. There are also a plethora of USB3 ethernet adapters out there. Fucking ridiculous. Do you even bother looking your shit up? And let's not forget the many, many, MANY things that USB can do that Thunderbolt can't. You know, because no one designs for Thunderbolt. Kinda like no one designed for Firewire.

I mean, your one saving grace is that I can't find a PCI expansion box that uses USB3. So fucking what? There are a million that use the already-existing PCI/PCI-e bus. I don't care how I get there, as long as I can get there.
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Uh. TB as a simple link today eviscerates anything multiple USB. Beyond that, TB can do PCI-E over cable whereas USB cannot. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are on about. Nevermind latency which TB kills USB anything.

As for no one designs for TB...I can buy any one of a dozen or so PC/MS mainboards with TB, which I have already stated.

As I've said, "What do you do with TB" as a rhetorical question works both ways.
 
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Silence_sl

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
Lots of nerd rage / anger in your post. So is it your position that USB3, with half the bandwidth, and fewer technical capabilities, is comparable and equivalent to Thunderbolt, which has twice the bandwidth, can transfer twice as much power to devices, can daisy chain, and supports PCI Express and DisplayPort protocols?
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As I have alluded to before, the merits of TB xfers are lost on poor Apple specs and clueless users. I'm not saying this is you, Chamo, but the vast majority of OSX boxes being sold are OSX boxes with single 5400RPM drives pissing data to another 5400 RPM drive.

Thunderbolt as a spec is really cool to quote as a superior INTEL tech, but for cosnmers, the TCO is bad at best.
 
Alkorin

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
Lots of nerd rage / anger in your post. So is it your position that USB3, with half the bandwidth, and fewer technical capabilities, is comparable and equivalent to Thunderbolt, which has twice the bandwidth, can transfer twice as much power to devices, can daisy chain, and supports PCI Express and DisplayPort protocols?
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It's my position that you're making a holy grail out of a coffee cup. It may be a particularly nice coffee cup, but in the end, it isn't the second coming of anything. It also doesn't justify the purchase of a Mac, which is (if I recall correctly) how this whole debate got started, right?

It's all good to say that Thunderbolt is more technically capable than USB3. It is. It makes absolutely no sense to justify the purchase of a Mac by stating that it has Thunderbolt and "PCs" don't, because this is false. The point I was trying to make, which you're attempting to brush aside, is that most of the claims you've made are false. USB3 can do networking, and it can chain devices. You seem to have stated that these things aren't possible.
 
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Devlin

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The whole reason PC's don't have Thunderbolt is because they don't want to fuck over their userbase with new cables that aren't supported by the entire industry, if Thunderbolt was a million times better and was going to be the industry standard then PC's would have them.
As it is they support the industry standard USB sockets.

Honestly the way Apple fanboys act you'd think Apple was a charity running at a loss not the sue happy upgrade forcing scumbags they really are.

My wife bought one of the new Nano's a few weeks back for running, tried to install it on my MBP that I donated to her "sorry you can't use this iPod with this until you upgrade OSX" I can see no earthly reason for this other than to force people into buying an upgrade they don't need.
 
Alkorin

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Everyone is sue-happy. Can't label Apple without labelling Samsung, HTC, LG, Google/Motorola, etc.
 
Joeboo

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and half or more of the Samsung, HTC, LG, Google/Motorola, etc. lawsuits are just counter-suing Apple because they started the whole issue in the first place
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Yeah, Apple dedicated a significant amount of resources to suing Samsung et al. But... When the emails from CEO say "Let's make this more like Apples, oh and let's copy them there, and copy Apple here too..." You can't blame them. I apologize in advance if it wasn't Samsung and was some other company.

Is there anything in the Windows camp like Apple's fusion drive? I know Intel (yes, Apple uses them too, I know) has a similar technology, but it's not integrated at the OS level like Fusion Drive is with Apple's Core Storage.
 
kegkilla

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Devlin_sl said:
My wife bought one of the new Nano's a few weeks back for running, tried to install it on my MBP that I donated to her "sorry you can't use this iPod with this until you upgrade OSX" I can see no earthly reason for this other than to force people into buying an upgrade they don't need.
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kind of like how they did all the testing for SIRI on iPhone 4, then released it exclusively for 4S and claimed the 4's tech couldn't support it which was obvious BS and a pathetic attempt to get people to buy their "upgraded" 4S
 
kegkilla

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
Yeah, Apple dedicated a significant amount of resources to suing Samsung et al. But... When the emails from CEO say "Let's make this more like Apples, oh and let's copy them there, and copy Apple here too..." You can't blame them. I apologize in advance if it wasn't Samsung and was some other company.

Is there anything in the Windows camp like Apple's fusion drive? I know Intel (yes, Apple uses them too, I know) has a similar technology, but it's not integrated at the OS level like Fusion Drive is with Apple's Core Storage.
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I doubt it, most PC users can figure out to install programs on their SSD and use hard drives for storage.
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Grand Inquisitor Kegkilla_sl said:
I doubt it, most PC users can figure out to install programs on their SSD and use hard drives for storage.
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Maybe. But that's the exact sort of bullshit a lot of people don't want to deal with. What advantage is there to fucking around with moving shit on harddrives manually instead of letting an intelligent operating system do it for you (and probably do a better job)? Or is this going to be another great example of superior technology that some people will write off because its not available on their platform?
 
The Dauntless One

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
Maybe. But that's the exact sort of bullshit a lot of people don't want to deal with. What advantage is there to fucking around with moving shit on harddrives manually instead of letting an intelligent operating system do it for you (and probably do a better job)? Or is this going to be another great example of superior technology that some people will write off because its not available on their platform?
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The advantage? Not let your "intelligent" operating system fucking up your shit. I have better decision making skills than some algorithm written to mimic me.

And is it so fucking hard for you to direct your utorrent and browser to download to your storage drive? It's like fucking magic.
 
Frenzied Wombat

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Yeah, SSHD's aka hybrid drives have been available for awhile, but anybody worth their salt would rather do what Kegkilla said- buy an SSD for your OS, and a normal HD for your programs/media. Why spend more money for a hybrid drive that isn't as fast as a pure SSD and doesn't benefit my gigs of movies, pictures,etc anyways? It's not that hard, install OS to C:, choose D: drive for all programs.

The market for SSHD's is laptops, where you can generally only support one HD. In this case you face the conundrum of having a 256GB SSD for a fast experience but little space for all ones media, or a shitty 5400 rpm terabyte HD that has tons of space but performs like shit. In that case, a 500GB SSHD makes a nice compromise.


aychamo_aycono_sl said:
Maybe. But that's the exact sort of bullshit a lot of people don't want to deal with. What advantage is there to fucking around with moving shit on harddrives manually instead of letting an intelligent operating system do it for you (and probably do a better job)? Or is this going to be another great example of superior technology that some people will write off because its not available on their platform?
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