Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Asmadai

Asmadai

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Malkav said:
Tanks crying at the moment just makes me laugh.

Before the patch :
Tanks : "Without STR accessories and the DPS loss from the change we won't generate enough enmity to keep aggro!"
Patch : "Increases tank enmity"
Tanks : " We don't care about enmity, tanks are boring to play we want moar DPS!"

Go play DPS if you want to DPS and stop being a little bitch god damn it.

I really hope YoshiP stands fast on the decision that tank are not supposed to be pseudo-DPS.
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Yeah, I'm guilty of wearing STR accessories sometimes just to appease whining min/maxers, but I can't stand this mindset on tanks in this game.

Tanks in every game have done subpar dps, why the fuck do people in this game think it's ok to sacrifice survivability all for a mediocre dps increase from a job that ISN'T MEANT TO DO DPS? It boggles my mind. I can't even stand stance dancing as a Paladin - why take 20% more damage all the time just so you can get a shitty dmg proc off your auto-attacks? But when in Rome...

I'd rather have high suvivability and be dead last in dps any day of the week.
 
Malkav

Malkav

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Asmadai said:
Yeah, I'm guilty of wearing STR accessories sometimes just to appease whining min/maxers, but I can't stand this mindset on tanks in this game.

Tanks in every game have done subpar dps, why the fuck do people in this game think it's ok to sacrifice survivability all for a mediocre dps increase from a job that ISN'T MEANT TO DO DPS? It boggles my mind. I can't even stand stance dancing as a Paladin - why take 20% more damage all the time just so you can get a shitty dmg proc off your auto-attacks? But when in Rome...

I'd rather have high suvivability and be dead last in dps any day of the week.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is they then attack healers who do not DPS.

Dude, you are wearing lvl60 STR accessories, tank in DPS stance and suck at using CDs. When do you expect your healer to have time to DPS?

The whole thing is toxic. People even go as far as to kick tanks or healers that do not DPS enough for them.
 
dyadestrant

dyadestrant

Molten Core Raider
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I main a WHM and I always hate that I'm expected to DPS. Because of the expectation, I'll do it, but if I wanted to DPS, I'd be a DPS. At least in SB, I don't have to stance dance because fuck any kind of that to hell.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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The best joke is how the mindset bleeds into other spheres even though it's completely out of place. The other day I had a PLD in Shisui(the 63 dungeon) using STR accs, unmelded and unupgraded(i260) cause he was a shit scrub that read on reddit that str accs were bis or watch xeno's videos or whatever. Asshole made the run so much slower, he was doing like 200more DPS than my tank in tank gear but had 700more health than my fucking blackmage in the dungeon, so the healer couldn't DPS once which was a huge loss, plus he couldn't pull more than one pack at a time obviously.

But he was arguing like it was the right thing and everyone else was wrong.

Anyway the main issue with tank DPS is that in 90% of the fights, there's one tank just DPSing for all the fight. There's few fights where you actually need 2 people tanking at the same time, the boss design often has like tank swaps or tank split attacks and stuff, but pretty much the entirety of the fight one of the tank is DPSing, even if they switch. That's where doing good DPS comes in. And I get it, if you're not actively tanking half the fight, you'd want to do good DPS when you do so. I think making the stances more defined would probably help. DPS stance does better damage but reduces efficiency of cooldowns and prevent the cheat death cooldowns(holmgang etc). Also generate base threat even on increased threat abilities, anyway tweaks so you can't tank in DPS stance, but when you're DPSing you do good damage, that'd be fine I think. You don't have to stance dance anymore, other than when you're not actively tanking.
 
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L

Lowball

Trakanon Raider
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Asmadai said:
Yeah, I'm guilty of wearing STR accessories sometimes just to appease whining min/maxers, but I can't stand this mindset on tanks in this game.

Tanks in every game have done subpar dps, why the fuck do people in this game think it's ok to sacrifice survivability all for a mediocre dps increase from a job that ISN'T MEANT TO DO DPS? It boggles my mind. I can't even stand stance dancing as a Paladin - why take 20% more damage all the time just so you can get a shitty dmg proc off your auto-attacks? But when in Rome...

I'd rather have high suvivability and be dead last in dps any day of the week.
Click to expand...

I know it all comes down to personal preference, but I like how the games combat system allows for intelligent DPSing by tanks and healers. There's plenty of games where you can just be a damage sponge. I really enjoy timing my damage cds between untelegraphed tank busters. I like seeing that we have solid ae DPS in the roulette and throwing on full tank mode for bigger pulls, or seeing we have mediocre ae DPS but good single/cleave/healer DPS and going DPS gear with faster single pack pulls. I don't like when I do one threat combo and sit in dps stance for the duration with full damage gear on, and don't even skip any phases.
 
Malkav

Malkav

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Yes, to each his own, the issue is how the community is prettty toxic about it with even scrubs riding the cock of the meta.

I'd never consider kicking a tank that pulls one pack at a time or a healer that doesn't dps, but people do all the time.

And all the while, these guys complain that DPS queues are too long and wonder why there is not more tanks/healers.
 
Palum

Palum

what Suineg set it to
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Malkav said:
Yes, to each his own, the issue is how the community is prettty toxic about it with even scrubs riding the cock of the meta.

I'd never consider kicking a tank that pulls one pack at a time or a healer that doesn't dps, but people do all the time.

And all the while, these guys complain that DPS queues are too long and wonder why there is not more tanks/healers.
Click to expand...

I know I'm not high enough level to see most of this but I saw a ton of shit just in PotD people arguing about tanks/healers and stuff. I'm just sticking to DPS no idea what they're all arguing about and leaving the group over random things lol.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Well potd is different, cause tanks are pretty much worthless and healers are only good when shit goes wrong, which is like once every 3 full runs in my experience and if you have a witching pom you can just fix it anyway. But realistically potd can be soloed by a decent DPS with 50/50 and everyone else is just there to distract shit.

The thing is as someone who plays healer and tank, I don't think it's nearly at the same level. If you're a tank in tank stance doing your damage rotation, you still do damage. Less than if you stance swap, but if you stance swap and your healer is shit you'll die and waste way more time than you'd save from the swapping and stuff. I rarely swap when doing pubs because it's just risky, only do on phases with low tank damage and what not.

Healers not DPSing is a weird issue because if you don't DPS, you're literally doing NOTHING in many situations. If the tank is pulling multiple groups it's fine, plenty of healing to be done but if he's pulling single groups, you're literally just standing there waiting for his health to go down so you can cast one heal then wait 5secs more and so on. Some bosses have so little damage you can basically get by with just medica II+regen/aspected benefic+aspected helios/whispering dawn+faerie every 30secs(sch cd being 1min makes it harder obviously although you can just indom or lustrate or whatever's needed). Then what the fuck are you doing the rest of the time? Just standing there doing nothing? It's especially dumb because healer DPS is basically 2 buttons, you press a dot every ~30secs and then you spam your nuke button, it's not some complicated system with oGCDs weaving and an opener with 14abilities in the right order and don't forget to maintain this while you do that and don't clip the thing and whatever. It's just 2 11111111111 2 1111111111 and so on. You can stop at any point to heal and no one gives a shit. What people, myself included have trouble understanding is when I see some fuck standing still for 5+ seconds doing jackshit. No mechanics, no healing, nothing, just like yeah I'm waiting for the bars to drop oh yeah. The fuck.

But at the end of the day I don't care enough to votekick or complain about it or whatever, I just ignore it and move on cause fuck arguing with random people because a run will take 5mins more because one guy is lazy as shit. Every run takes 5mins longer anyway cause guaranteed one of the DPS is retarded. In 8mans, 2 to 3 generally retarded.
 
Malkav

Malkav

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Yeah, there is a difference between sitting on your thumbs and going full on DPS though. :D

The funny thing is that the content outside of savage is tuned to be faceroll. The meta literally doesn't matter on most of the stuff, but you have people that would die the first second of a savage encounter that keep parroting it.
 
Kriptini

Kriptini

Vyemm Raider
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Stance dancing was fantastic. If you didn't like the mechanic then you didn't have to use it, but the skill ceiling on tanks is way lower now which sucks because I really liked maximizing my DPS on WAR/DRK while also holding enmity and staying alive.
 
Fennin

Fennin

Golden Knight of the Realm
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The tanks and healers not doing damage is a lot more civil on the Japanese servers where the mentality is clear smoothly rather than clear faster. The real issue with the current tank design is that you can only meld 125 strength to right side accessories, in full savage gear(20+ilvl) you'll still only get 125 strength. Its funny because the whole point of their strategy in the first place was to keep HP inflation down. Not gaining any attack power from new accessories every tier is just silly. Hopefully in 4.05 they can come up with a solution that is both good for tanks, and healers.

As far as stance dancing goes currently, it isn't really a thing at all. With the addition of shirk you no longer have to enmity combo at all in raids unless you are the tank that is pulling, you actually spend more time in dps stance currently then you did in HW. The only time you go back into tank stance currently is after death, due to the new death penalty mechanics.

DPS for tanks is about the same as it was at the end of HW about 30-35% less damage than dps. Paladin and Warrior are pretty equal in terms of damage, and Dark Knight isn't far behind. All three tanks are pretty much on par with where warrior was at the end of HW. Outside of Paladin's ridiculous fluffer kit of raid utility, the tanks are probably about as balanced as they have ever been.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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Stolen from gamefaqs thread for refresher:
week 1:

o1 ----> boots item
o2-----> helm item
o3 and o4 ------> pants item

week 2 :

repeat to finish all 3 items.

week 3 :

o1 ----> belt item
o2-----> get second ring.
o3 and o4 -----> get gloves.
Click to expand...

Adjust as needed based on what stats each slot gives, for instance my 310 boots/gloves are optimal so i will get those last and shift belt up.
 
Asmadai

Asmadai

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Yeah, when off tanking I totally understand the need to do as much extra dps as possible. It's when they expect me to main tank, survive mechanics, juggle defensive cooldowns on top of putting out as much dps as possible that drives me up the wall.

ESPECIALLY when people pull that shit in non-Savage content. When you're racing for world first, or have healers on that level of skill where they can handle having to keep up a lower defensed tank up, then sure it might make more sense. But wanting me in full STR accessories so we can kill Susano EX in 8 mins instead of 8min30sec? Give me a fucking break, lol.
 
Fennin

Fennin

Golden Knight of the Realm
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For my progression character I'm doing:

Week 1: Pedal, Pedal, Spring, Spring
Week 2: Chain, Lens, Spring, Spring
Week 3: Bolt, Lens, Crank, Crank

Full left side minus chest piece, with chest bought with creation tomestones week 4.
 
Valderen

Valderen

Space Pirate
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It's kinda strange hearing you guys talk about toxic community in this game because it's has NEVER been an issue for me, like in all the time I've played I have NEVER EVER encountered someone toxic in FF14. I've been in dungeons where someone would not understand a mechanic and cause the group to wipe repeatedly on a boss, and everyone was polite and explained how it worked until we did it. I have never seen someone being kicked except for inactivity.

Mind you, I've heard in chat mentioned that's it's specific to my server "Coeurl", and that some people have started seeing some of it since they encourage people to switch server because we were low population and one of those favoured destination, but I've never experienced it.

By far, FF14 for me has been the nicest community ever.
 
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Malakriss

Malakriss

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I've seen two distinct categories of toxic, namely the "why do I have to share?" hunters who try to snipe everything and early pull S ranks despite doing nothing to spawn them as well as the raider elitists who don't have time to consider the non-hardcore people when paired up with them in the DF.
 
Fyff

Fyff

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Pyros said:
The best joke is how the mindset bleeds into other spheres even though it's completely out of place. The other day I had a PLD in Shisui(the 63 dungeon) using STR accs, unmelded and unupgraded(i260) cause he was a shit scrub that read on reddit that str accs were bis or watch xeno's videos or whatever. Asshole made the run so much slower, he was doing like 200more DPS than my tank in tank gear but had 700more health than my fucking blackmage in the dungeon, so the healer couldn't DPS once which was a huge loss, plus he couldn't pull more than one pack at a time obviously.

But he was arguing like it was the right thing and everyone else was wrong.

Anyway the main issue with tank DPS is that in 90% of the fights, there's one tank just DPSing for all the fight. There's few fights where you actually need 2 people tanking at the same time, the boss design often has like tank swaps or tank split attacks and stuff, but pretty much the entirety of the fight one of the tank is DPSing, even if they switch. That's where doing good DPS comes in. And I get it, if you're not actively tanking half the fight, you'd want to do good DPS when you do so. I think making the stances more defined would probably help. DPS stance does better damage but reduces efficiency of cooldowns and prevent the cheat death cooldowns(holmgang etc). Also generate base threat even on increased threat abilities, anyway tweaks so you can't tank in DPS stance, but when you're DPSing you do good damage, that'd be fine I think. You don't have to stance dance anymore, other than when you're not actively tanking.
Click to expand...
You talk to pugs in level 63 dungeons? Shit is faceroll. Who cares what his gear is.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Fyff said:
You talk to pugs in level 63 dungeons? Shit is faceroll. Who cares what his gear is.
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The healer told him to change his accessory, which prompted the "but str accs are bis" discussion. Obviously it's faceroll, it was still slower than usual and probably a lot more annoying for the healer to see him spike to 20% hp constantly from every "big" hit cause he had 60% less health than most other tanks. Point was, there was no fucking reason to have str accs doing a 63 leveling dungeon, especially when he didn't put in the effort to actually maximize it properly(illuminati thingie to upgrade and meld vit so you don't fucking die to everything) but act like it was the best ever and everyone who didn't know was obviously clueless because Xeno said so. At the end of the run he was doing about 1000DPS, instead of the 700-800 other tanks usually do, which was really pointless for the added stress on the healer. I was DPSing so at the end of the day it made little difference for me, other than the pointless arguing.
 
Nola

Nola

Trakanon Raider
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Valderen said:
It's kinda strange hearing you guys talk about toxic community in this game because it's has NEVER been an issue for me, like in all the time I've played I have NEVER EVER encountered someone toxic in FF14. I've been in dungeons where someone would not understand a mechanic and cause the group to wipe repeatedly on a boss, and everyone was polite and explained how it worked until we did it. I have never seen someone being kicked except for inactivity.

Mind you, I've heard in chat mentioned that's it's specific to my server "Coeurl", and that some people have started seeing some of it since they encourage people to switch server because we were low population and one of those favoured destination, but I've never experienced it.

By far, FF14 for me has been the nicest community ever.
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I have to agree with this 100%. People are usually nice and if we wipe on a boss we just rebuff and try again. There's no finger pointing or name calling. The only time I experienced any drama was with this tank for some reason refused to use flash. He just couldn't keep any aggro. Every time I healed him I was getting aggro and so were the dps. We tried to explain to him what he was doing wrong but he wouldn't listen. So we kicked him out the dungeon and finished it without a tank.

I'm sure there is some toxicity in this game but it's nothing like I experienced in WoW.
 
Fennin

Fennin

Golden Knight of the Realm
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58
The main problem is there is a lot of poor information coming out from people like Xeno and other twitch/youtube personalities. In dungeons, the frequency of white hits and consistent damage is to great to drop all Ehp from right side. You gain nothing of value in terms of kill speed if you can't survive large pulls or you over stress the healer where they can't put out AoE in first 4-5 GCD's of a pull you've lost group damage. Wearing full strength is only beneficial when running content like Susano EX/Lakshimi EX. In these fights as a tank you aren't taking a high volume of incoming damage, and with proper mitigation it has little to no effect on your healers at all. The main issue is that most tanks that are trying to run full STR don't mitigate properly to begin with.

I don't run full STR accessories in dungeons or even PuG groups, I was running 4/5 when leveling and 3/5 in maxed out gear in dungeons. I will run full STR in Lakshimi and Susano EX when running with my static group though, and usually 3/5 in speed run dungeons. I almost never drop tank stance on large pulls on any of the three tank classes right now, but spend almost no time in tank stance on bosses. A lot of players really don't understand how mitigation works in this game, especially in regards to stances.
 
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