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"Video gaming" as a whole perhaps. But mmos in general? Not yet. Getting there? Sure. Call me when mmo gaming is as common as console gaming. Doubtful it will ever reach that point until the choices for subject matter are as diverse. You"re delusional if you think its even remotely close yet...

You realise you just described WoW without as many progression based open-world bosses right? Add some in the next expansion, and voila! Your vision just got smoked. Its gonna take a lot more than that.

You can"t be serious. Sure, some people may miss those things, but to insinuate that the majority of an entire genre would want them repeated is assinine. They"re nothing more than individual preference (some of my own admittedly). And many, if not most, of which are NOT widely shared...

Well, I understand your points, and I don"t entirely disagree. But indulge me if you will: While a reknowned artist will certainly lend to the appeal of any type of game, i"d put artists like Paul, Giger, Ackerman, Clark, or Bradbury right up there on a pedastel alongside any fantasy artist...

Ok Mr. Spock, put on your dunce cap and simpleton suit, because i"d hate for you to think this actually "requires" any intelligence to understand: Your claim is that its a "logical fallacy" to compare the mainstream validity of twoseparateaspects thesamegeneral genre. Gee, I wonder what...

Piss off with the other clown. I hadn"t planned on carrying the subject any further until he dragged the shit back up. So who derailed what? And now who"s trying to derail it further now jackass? By the way, who the fuck died and appointed you admin/mod?

If you want to believe that mmos are a mainstream market because you see a few commercials for ONE fucking mmo on tv, be my guest. I don"t have to agree. I was more than happy to just agree to disagree with my last post on the subject nearly half a fuckin" day ago. Dumbass.

You"re ignoring the difference. Did seeing a StarWars mmo commercial cause a million people to run out and start buying mmos. No. And neither did WoW. It merely exposed those "specific" mmos to a broader promotional audience. Did it improve the sales of all mmos? No. Did it cause a massive surge...

What does being done online have to do with anything? If you took away WoW, what would you be left with? A vague reference to EverQuest in some 8ish year old movie? Now you could say that WoW is "the closest" to mainstream by using mainstream promotional venues, but to claim that the entire...

Its semantics. And yes, retarded.

Dude, a fucking "one trick pony" doesn"t constitute a mainstream product line. You said "mmos are going mainstream". They"re not.

One mmo being heavily advertised on television by a company that certainly has the means to do it, in NO WAY constitutes the entire genre of mmos as "mainstream". I see that ad for Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 about 100x more frequently than a WoW reference. We can visit this subject again when the...

OMG! IT WAS ON TV!!! By that logic, everything onthis siteis a mainstream product destined for greatness LOL

No, but i"m reasonably sure well over 10 have sold close to or more than 1 million. And collectively, console games outnumber mmos by a tremendous ratio.

Going mainstream? Thats a joke right? If by mainstream you mean on the level that console games have reached, you"re sadly mistaken. MMOs are a niche market, and always will be. At the very least, until you can achieve some extraordinary stuff with them (VR, hyper-speed data transfer, etc.). But...

7 years ago, i"d have been much more inclined to agree.

Well, I hope you"re right. I just don"t see it as likely going that way in a market thats already a high risk as it is. Call it pessimism I guess.

If it fails (not in a sense of "dethroning" WoW, but more in the sense of "competitive" with WoW), its just another game on the already tremendous pile. As well as a warning to other potential investors who might have considered pushing into that segment of the market. Its the difference between...

Sure. And in 10 years we"ll be reduced to MMOBGs (massively multiplayer online Blizzard games), and "those lesser significant games" You know damn well what I meant. No investor is going to risk "taking on Blizzard" to build that calibre game.

What part of "who"s gonna want to take the risk to make it?" don"t you understand?

Exactly. I don"t expect everyone to agree with everything I say. But what i"m seeing here, is the huge potential for immeasurable damage to the genre. 38 Studios intends to compete with Blizzard. Now, I don"t think that in itself is a bad thing mind you, and I wish them luck. If they succeed...

Again, you"re entitled to that opinion. Incidently, I enjoy a good fantasy story as much as the next guy. I don"t think fantasy stories are a bane to mmos at all. I think they"re "becoming" a bane to the genre in general. And i"ve been saying this all along. How many times do I have to agree to...

Was there a point in there somewhere? Other video game genres? Do you mean to compare console gaming to mmo gaming? Clarification please, because I must have missed where you already explained all this.

You couldn"t be further off. You"re right though, ANY mmo "could" be considered a rendition of ones fantasy, but I find it a bit odd that you would assume that this is what I meant. So for all intents and purposes, lets go with "fantasy" as "a rendition of heroes, dragons, swords, and sorcery"...

Thats what i"ve been saying man. Thats what its going to take. Especially against Blizzard. Proving another segment of the market. Tossing yet another fantasy mmo into the mix isn"t going to "evolve" shit.

Don"t be such a dumbass. I don"t "hate" fantasy. And maybe thier game WILL be something I enjoy. Thats not what this is about. If you don"t like what I say, feel free to ignore me.

For the most part, I agree. You have to start by not over-simplifying innovation as exclusively being various "mechanical concepts". But consider that innovation is conclusive to the entire package that makes up a game. The depth in which that innovation is utilised is what determines the...

While I agree with everything else both you and 2bit said, at this stage in the game I most certainly think "innovation" has become a very important factor for many, if not most, mmo gamers. Thats the problem. There isn"t a whole lot of room left for innovation. Especially in the fantasy sector...

Not likely. If someone wants a Chevy, they"re going to buy a Chevy. They"re not likely to buy a "Toyota Malibu" because its 30% cheaper than Chevy"s, and quite likely not as high quality due to the substantially lower price.

A bit disconcerting surely. Woulda been nice to see the big Blizz squirm a bit

Well, you"re certainly entitled to that opinion. It doesn"t mean I have to agree. Nor does it "prove" that my suggestion is "pointless". Try reading the last few pages rather than just the last three posts. The "IP" point has been argued already. Extensively.

Again, i"d like to stress that i"m really not trying to be a naysayer here. I really hope they do well. But when you"re literally considering taking on Blizzard, I think the chance for success would be much greater for an IP approaching that task with an equally fun and accessible mmo in a...

NOW you"re gettin" it. Almost. Its doesn"t necessarily HAVE to be sci-fi. Sure, i"d prefer it. But I wouldn"t limit it to sci-fi specifically. Historical, post-apoc, etc... ANYTHING but yet another fantasy game.

LOL.... YOU don"t understand your own analogy, but "i"m" the one who"s confused Japanese car company: hey! lets build Chevy"s and sell them in the US market! 38 Studios: hey! lets build a "fantasy" game and sell it in the sector of the market Blizzard currently dominates by a ratio of over...

sheesh........ EXACTLY. Nothing more than more of the same. And already done to death.

It doesn"t work on assumption. And you"ve included a ton. First, you assume the market will forever freeze at whatever number its currently at, and 38 will simply chip away at that number. Second, you assume that any "new" gamers will automatically desire another fantasy game. And third, you...

Ok. Its obvious you think i"m arguing that point. I"m not. If they build thier IP, and develop thier mmo, and pull down 1-2 million subs, i"d consider that a success. I have no doubt that ANY company could do that with the proper funding, motivation, and creativity. The point i"ve been making...

Not really. When you make the claim that you"re going to go after Blizzard for a substantial piece of thier market share, you need to come BIG. REALLY BIG. Potential fans will expect nothing less. I simply disagree that this can be accomplished by an as of yet unknown IP, for all the reasons...

I don"t dislike the mmo genre in the least. I"ve been an mmo gamer for years. Starting with EQ in "99. My problem is with the genre"s lack of variety. You can sit there and argue that the variety in endless if you want. It WON"T make you right. And now these guys want to drop "nothing more than...

No. Its NOT immeasurable. Its extremely "predictable". Its always the same "you are the hero, and this is your goal..... blah blah blah...." story thats always been told from a zillion different angles already. The "manner" in which you interact within that story (mechanics), comes with little...