2 years later... the almost sad state of MMOs in the new era

I think a useful starting division is, content vs. design.

Design = the mechanics, from combat to character development to world design.
Content = what is this game about?

I pick those two and keep the definitions real simple because I think content might be the block. We can hash out mechanics all day, and we do not have to reinvent a wheel at that level. I am assuming since we come from similar gaming backgrounds we have a lot of shared design goals we could spell out.

But if I had to summarize the "content" problem, it would be this: believe it or not, playing an elf simulator is just not a thing anymore. And also, a luke skywalker simulator is boring as fuck. Etc.

So if my hypothesis has potential, the big question is, where do people want to go? I love me some elf simulator action, but I am irrelevant: I am over 30. Way.

If one could find the right world, the tried and true mechanics can then be implemented. But people have to actually want to "be" a lvl 000 xxx yyy zzzz throughout the persistence of that character. A persistent world without persistent players is meaningless. A persistent world requires persistent players. And that is, I am arguing, a content problem before it is a design problem. Where do people want to be? I love Neriak Forest but apparently I am in a niche market along with people who collect matchbooks.

Cybsled said:

Shit like Destiny, The Division, Conan Exiles, Fallout 76, Anthem, etc are the "new" model. Lower server populations, more focus on "lobby to adventure" sessions, cosmetic microtransactions vs. p2w

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Just to try to think about earliest case scenarios, and in terms of actually rolled out, well funded games, wasn't this SWTOR? It certainly wasn't p2w. Where exactly was the shared world? It was a few game components stapled together. A solo game + mp. But let me cut to my chase.

This simply isn't a persistent, shared world. If there isn't a persistent shared world it has left the system of game that resembles at all the mmorpg genre. Once we get to where we are talking about servers as lobbies, and sessions instead of "being online" simply vs not, it is a model that goes back to Quake and the many clones. PvP, teams, etc. It is not seeming we are talking about a "new" model here. To attain a genuine persistent world is the sine qua non. That's right. sin qua non

Ukerric said:

the modern gaming scene does not have MMOs, because the designers "know" they have to offer specific, discrete, obvious objectives all the time, and they can't be arsed to design a game in which those objectives exist all at the same time.

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And that is the rub that creates the problem of why it is hard to develop a persistent world, right there. Everything has to be coded and staged, in a shared environment. If you click on an npc to ask a question, you do not go to a cut scene or instance where you personally chat with a long dialogue tree of who give a fuck. Only Baldur's Gate and it's clones gets to do that, b/c that's single player shit.

So, if you click an npc to ask a question, in a real persistent shared world, the person next to you will be able to tell you asked the npc a question, and maybe overhear the conversation. Because that is how fucking goddam reality works and that is another essential ingredient: these games have to model real life in some way. Events happen in place x, anyone in place x can see it. You drop something, someone else can pick it up. You charm, equip, and superbuff a hostile npc in a newbie zone then gate out, those level 10's better figure out a plan or prepare to die a lot over the next half hour till the buffs run out.

But it must be incredibly hard to figure out how to actually do that. They have to create individual, highly complicated content ad objectives that never leave and so are always happening alongside of, the shared world with all the other players.

tl;dr. Session games are not a substitute for the "ideal" that might be dead now, but stranger things have happened, and it might be re-invented. It can happen. Session games are not persistent world games. And persistent world games require maximizing shared world persistence.

Shared world persistence then can lead to integral social interaction and cooperation and competition. But then we run into all those problems. Boxing. Griefing. Not enough content. What does one actually do in this world? I think certain old aspects are definitely dead: like EQ having basically, just grind exp till you can get to the end zones. Other than a few lucrative early tradeskills (like JC -- it was godly first year) that was what you did.

Clearly, we need to develop the "life" of the shared world persistence. You can do that like Eve does with all the sheer maintenance massive persistence in it requires.

But that is where the imaginative action is, is my argument. Market realities be damned, if you could create a shared world persistence people actually wanted to be in, they would come.

What's the "world"?

eXarc said:

read threads like this and get even more depressed. I feel old as fuck

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But it isn't our fault over time retardation creeps into everything. Like a surfer, you have to find the edge right in front of the curl of stupidification. I am glad others feel the same way b/c this pandemic is making it feasible to do a character, do a game, a guild, etc. But I'm sorry, I need better product. So, I develop other of my hobbies.

But this pandemic is such a wasted opportunity. The gaming industry is retarded. Niche = money if you can figure it out.

the mmorpg concept is not "old" in the sense of obsolete. It is simply not available or viable right now, for complicated reasons.

It's fantastic getting old. Imagine being some college kid in early 60's that heard Miles Davis Quintet at a club. Or saw the grateful dead before Keith and Donna left.

Or saw Blade Runner the summer it came out. Jeez, these are good things.

My mom is 77. She was alive when Jonas Salk discovered the polio vaccine. She was 8 or 9 when she got the shot. It was a "big deal." I got to speak to her about it. Which means, I have heard a trustworthy eye-witness account of what that historical moment was like.

Being part of ye olde earlie years of the internets is not that level, but culturally, all our age means, is not that we are old, but we are veterans. It's not our fault things get boring or dumb periodically. The millennials did squat except monetize a medium. Maybe the next gen will create some good stuff. Maybe not. Their loss.