28mm Miniature Tabletop Wargaming Thread

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Burren

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It's very true sumdain, no arguements at all. But, it's really fucking hard to give up WH and WH40k after so much time and investment, because they fucking ruined the rules in both systems. And as cool as some of the WM/Horde stuff is, the GW models just blow them away =/
 

Sumdain x

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ill agree to that (with a very few exceptions) GW makes excellent miniatures and they are the undisputed king of the multi-part plastic kit.

i do really enjoy the PrivateerPress colossals / gargantuans especially those i posted above.
 

Heylel

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It's very true sumdain, no arguements at all. But, it's really fucking hard to give up WH and WH40k after so much time and investment, because they fucking ruined the rules in both systems. And as cool as some of the WM/Horde stuff is, the GW models just blow them away =/
Nah, not these days. The newer Privateer stuff is just as good, and in some cases better, than GW and at a lower price point. In particular, their plastic kits have really come a long way. I collect Circle, and the warpwolf plastic kit is a vast improvement over the old metal versions.

As Tea said, it's just a plain better game than 40k and there's a reason why it's growing in popularity faster. All of the problems that WH/40k suffer from, especially their codex-as-marketing-strategy way of constantly escalating power until they have to release a new, higher priced edition, simply don't exist in WarmaHordes. Furthermore, you don't need specialized software to make a list. You CAN get the phone app, but it's not necessary.

I'm a relative newbie, and not a particularly talented player, but I enjoy the hell out of the game. I've been playing about five months, and have collected a nearly complete Circle army in that time. It's a giant pile to paint, especially the gargantuan and battle engine I traded for over the holidays, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it. The models just have so much character.

Btw, that's the best way to get into one of these games. Find a good trading website and just swap armies with someone else. I traded my old, basically worthless Eldar stuff for my gargant and battle engine to a friend, who then gave the Eldar away as a Christmas gift fixer-upper set. Bought the bulk of my Circle used for 50% retail value, most of it NIB or unpainted but assembled. I only have a fraction of the cost invested in it that I would otherwise need to spend to buy at retail.

Also just traded a Menoth set I stumbled into online for a starting Retribution army. Probably going to start collecting that on the side as a second faction, or I'll just hang onto it as trade bait down the road.
 

Erronius

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Regardless though you should probably check outInfinity. It's a sci fi mini game that is skirmish sized and plays extremely terrain dense - typically as a city. The model line ranges from gorgeous to pervy as fuck to hideous, so some people are turned off by that. There are a ton of great city fighting rules, but they can get a little complex. There is also campaign system support, but I've never played with it. You can take a look through the rule bookRules.pdf]herefor free.
I've looked at their models before but never the rules. Are they in any way similar to Necromunda? I ask as one of my gaming groups had played but about half the group doesn't want to play Necromunda again because they seriously dislike the rules (close combat being the big issue iirc).

Lastly the Star Wars X-wing game is fucking fantastic
I echo this. Only real criticism I had was that we had a few games that were a little unbalanced, trying to fit an odd number of players and some people with the named pilots were wrecking shit. Still we've had fun when we've played it and that's a minor thing.

but i just cant justify dropping $75 dollars on a dark angel airship which i may need 2 or three of, as well as 4+ boxes of deathwing which are 60ish each. With WM/hordes i can buy stuff piecemeal over a period of time and that 1 unit will impact my tabletop fun a lot more than if i add another 3-4 squads in a traditional 40k army.
Well what is ironic is that 40K used to be that way too, I started out when it was more RPG/Skirmish. And a lot of GW players feel trapped at this point (at least the ones I know), as many don't want to stop with what they've already invested in the game, yet they are getting tired of GW screwing them over. I added up the new CSM stuff I wouldn't mind having, and it came up to $355.25. That's ONLY 1 Forgefiend/Maulerfiend, ONLY one Heldrake, NO Warp Talons (lol), NO Mutilators (lol^100), and 2 split DV boxes. That includes 2 new HQs that are finecast (/wrists). And that's being able to throw out I think 10k+ points in Chaos already (counting demons I guess). ATM I know people selling all their armies wholesale and GTFO (BAs and Necrons atm); only people I know who don't care much are the guys who buy new FoTM armies and for whom the cost isn't an issue.

Flyers really made the situation worse IMHO.
 

Phoenix Prime_sl

shitlord
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Im actually still into Grey Knights just because of the way the models look and the lore behind them. Not because of Matt ward making them the strongest army to play right when I started. It just kinda happened that way. Had a friend who I ended up buying his Blood Angels from and another who sold me his Black Templar stuff for a great price. Ive only got maybe 2 small armies I want to build. A 2k point list of Chaos just for display cause I like the look of a lot of the new models, a chaos fantasy army with major conversions done to it that make it look like a Warcraft Alliance army. The last army will be my bread and butter in being basically one of the lost Legions pre heresy. Basically a legion that was the emporers humanity and saw Exterminatus and basic slavery of its people as wrong, so they took off for the unknown. Basically never lost any technology and are basically as advanced as the Tau are but Space Marine armor. Ive got pretty much all the models figured out and what I plan on using. Dreamforge Leviathan Crusaders as my Warhounds, the new assault troopers as my basic marines, as well as the GIJoe Dragonhawk as my "Thunderhawk" equivalent. Ive just gotten irritated over the flagrant price hikes that GW has done. I can understand that some price increase is needed, but going from 54$ to 75$ for a single flyer and making them pretty much mandatory in games with the new flyer rules just says a big giant "Fuck you"

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ader-plastic-m-- The Kickstarter for Dreamforge Games. The Heavy Troopers I would use as regular troops are near the bottom.
 

Sumdain x

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I've looked at their models before but never the rules. Are they in any way similar to Necromunda? I ask as one of my gaming groups had played but about half the group doesn't want to play Necromunda again because they seriously dislike the rules (close combat being the big issue iirc).



I echo this. Only real criticism I had was that we had a few games that were a little unbalanced, trying to fit an odd number of players and some people with the named pilots were wrecking shit. Still we've had fun when we've played it and that's a minor thing.



Well what is ironic is that 40K used to be that way too, I started out when it was more RPG/Skirmish. And a lot of GW players feel trapped at this point (at least the ones I know), as many don't want to stop with what they've already invested in the game, yet they are getting tired of GW screwing them over. I added up the new CSM stuff I wouldn't mind having, and it came up to $355.25. That's ONLY 1 Forgefiend/Maulerfiend, ONLY one Heldrake, NO Warp Talons (lol), NO Mutilators (lol^100), and 2 split DV boxes. That includes 2 new HQs that are finecast (/wrists). And that's being able to throw out I think 10k+ points in Chaos already (counting demons I guess). ATM I know people selling all their armies wholesale and GTFO (BAs and Necrons atm); only people I know who don't care much are the guys who buy new FoTM armies and for whom the cost isn't an issue.

Flyers really made the situation worse IMHO.
Infinity plays a bit funny, its a D20 system and you have opposed rolls and non opposed rolls, for instance i have BS12 (putting it in WH40k terms) so i need to roll under 12 on a D20. oh but your in cover -4, and since all weapons have range bands your at my farthest band -2, so now i need to roll under a 6 to hit you. that is an example of a nonopposed roll. the same situation as above but now you declare your dodging out of the way and roll a 3 i know need to roll between a 3 and a 6 on a D20. it seems a bit convoluted and it felt unnatural the first few times i played but it moves quick once you get the hang of it. almost all models have "cubes" and if you play in a campaign style cube models have a chance to come back between games so you dont lose your entire "warband".

my one gripe with infinity is most of the units don't feel *that* different from one another other than a few stat changes here and there like regular line troopers and spec op up armored guys only difference will be their armor score and maybe what they can see through (mimitism, TO camo etc)

i am by no means a master at infinity so please correct me if someone else is a bit more knowledgeable.

i started playing 40k in third i believe? where the box set came with the 20 gretchin the goffs and a cardboard dreadnought. and it seems like GW has had a steady price increase through the years almost annually. like i said above i am a privateer fanboy but i will say whey have not done a price increase as of yet, the only exception are some of the unit repackages, they have gone from selling minimum unit size boxes to max unit size (from 6 guys to 10) and if you do the math it still ends up a tad bit cheaper than to buy 10 guys originally. so i do appreciate PP for that.

like i said above i really do like the new dark angel models and i have a friend who owns an "online store" so he can order me things at cost, it still feels a bit over costed when i know i wont get as much use out of things as i would say a new beast or warcaster for my warmachine armies. i may buy into another 40k army at some point i have most of an oldschool metal necron army in storage somewhere... i just refuse to pay retail for it
 

Sumdain x

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also pics of my game room and a picture my wife painted
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Mikey

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Hello everyone. THought I'd introduce myself here and ask a question. I've been playing Warhammer 40k for a little over a decade now, and tried Warmachine when it first came out. I've been through many armys over the years, but find myself always in posession of a Chaos army, and currently a generic Space Marine army. (I usually field them using Blood Angels rules).

The question I have is regarding the Kickstarter for Dreamforge games listed above. The kickstarter is closed, so I cannot order the awesome figs at super low prices that way, does anyone know where I could buy them, or if they will even be selling them? The DreamForge site only seems to have the Titan Pieces. Sigh.

Thanks,
Mikey
 

Erronius

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I remember back on FOH there being quite a few people who play tabletop games, and live in the general Kansas City area. If you do and you'd be interested in meeting up for BBQ let me know, we'll prob have a small group meeting up sometime soonish. I also might start a gratuitous "KC Food Pics" thread in the Grown-up section.

Also curious if anyone is in KC and plays any of the GW games OTHER THAN Fantasy/40k, like Blood Bowl, BFG, etc. I thought about playing BB on Monday nights @ Tabletop but I'll prob have night classes on Mondays through spring 2014. I'm curious if anyone really has any of that stuff; I've tried getting friends to start on the "smaller" systems, but none of them ever are willing. The argument is usually"I already spent $X on Fantasy/40K, not gonna invest in another system"which seems kinda bizarre to me when many of them will then turn around and buy new armies or hundreds of dollars of new stuff. Part of me wonders if that general reluctance on peoples part to play the somewhat smaller and cheaper games is what led GW to eschew them and turn 40K into a larger and more expensive system...

ALSO! Does anyone play Epic? I have several pounds of old Epic stuff jammed in a box or two that I might either put on Ebay, or toss otherwise. I was going to use all of it for bits but the only stuff that ever seemed suitable for 40k was stuff like Titan arms/weapons or maybe some old titan-knight weapons (like melta)...so mostly useless to me anymore.
 

Sumdain x

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GW is getting really good at hiding upcoming new releases... new blurry WFB warriors of chaos minis linked here (website is safe for work)

http://natfka.blogspot.jp/2013/01/mo...-are-here.html

i never really played Epic even though i had a small eldar army. Me and a friend made travel 40k out of a magnetic sheet then used "metal paper" glued to the bottom of the epic miniatures. we got tiny dice out of one of those travel monopoly games and used the epic ruins and a few more things for miniature terrain, we even scaled rulers/templates. then we played twice...but it was a fun idea. =p
 

Khalan

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Cool, I Played all GW stuff heavily back in the early 2000's, Even worked at GW as one of my first jobs. I literally have thousands of dollars of bits, and mini's a lot brand new and in blisters/boxes sitting in my basement since we used to get a ridiculous discount on Stuff especially metal models/bits ordered though Mail Order (90% off pretty much). I won a Best Painted and Best General at a few GT's but pretty much grew out of it when I was 20ish. I tried picking it up recently bought a whole bunch of paints and painted and converted about have a chaos army but I realized I didn't want to play the game/ wanted to just paint. But without a game to play the whole thing seemed pointless too. So now I have a half painted chaos army and thousands of dollars of minis sitting in my basement collecting dust the last decade.

I don't want to get rid of it because I feel like when Im 35 and married Ill get back into it but... just need to find something to do with it all.
 

Khalan

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Ill post some pics of my most recent stuff... I just have a shit camera and setup so it's really bad.
 

Wuyley_sl

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@sumdain x - Holy shit that is a small fortune in Battlefoam alone. I have the 720 for my 40k IG and DA army and that shit was EXPENSIVE
 

Sumdain x

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i have a small problem with being OCD about organization. I did get a pretty good discount on most of that stuff though.
 

Jx3

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So I said fuck the Sons of Medusa. Me and neon green paint don't go together so well. Decided on a Crimson Fists army. Digging the look. Got couple of gift certificates to my local hobby shop. Time to buy super expensive Elite units I'll never actually use in a game!
 

Erronius

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Time to buy super expensive Elite units I'll never actually use in a game!
Well, someday they'll be OP in some version of a codex and you'll have to buy more to max out your slot allotments!

WH 40K: buy enough crap so that no matter what codex or unit happens to be the best, you have it!
 

Burren

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Well, someday they'll be OP in some version of a codex and you'll have to buy more to max out your slot allotments!

WH 40K: buy enough crap so that no matter what codex or unit happens to be the best, you have it!
AKA: fuck GW in their money-grubbing asses for changing each codex/ruleset requiring players to spend a shit-ton of money on stuff just to have a rule-worthy army. New Chaos monster is $85 FFS!!!

After 17 years, I'm just so fucking jaded that I've given up. I don't want to sell my 4 armies, but god damn I don't want to buy anymore of their shit either. Warma/Hordes has it's appeal, but I debate starting something else again.
 

Erronius

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I'm sorry for such anINCREDIBLYlong post, but there is so much to cover.....

After 17 years, I'm just so fucking jaded that I've given up. I don't want to sell my 4 armies, but god damn I don't want to buy anymore of their shit either. Warma/Hordes has it's appeal, but I debate starting something else again.
Old bump but you are far from alone in feeling that way. Far, far from alone. GW might seriously bite themselves in the ass quite soon - after years of propping up their revenue by squeezing every penny possible from their Fantasy and 40K players people might finally be getting to the point that there is a large-scale movement away from GW to other game systems. I found out this weekend that a couple of my RL friends already started Warmachine I think it was and have shelved multiple GW armies.

----------------------------

OK, on to the new/semi-new stuff:

I'm still not 100% clear on the"$500 limit, per month, on direct order items"from GW and the associated calls for a GW boycott this spring. I've heard these calls before so I dunno. I hadn't been to one of our local stores in months but a friend of mine was telling me that he had been talking to the owner of one recently, and that the owner was angry about the $500 limit. A lot of GW's policy changes this year seem to be aimed at online retailers specifically so I'm not really sure how this will actually affect FLGSs, but since I'm hearing rumors of local store owners not being happy (and talk within the store of boycotting amongst gamers) I'll have to pop into one of the ones mentioned to me and see what their take on it is.

Of course GW has a long history of changing policies on a whim and generally dicking over FLGSs - for example, we once had to buy a minimum amount of GW merchandise per month to qualify for a discount, but we could only choose from a particular list, and forcing small retailers to buy hundreds of dollars of product each month that they might normally not have otherwise meant that we often had excess on our shelves.

There is a ton of blogs and sites that have been talking about this particular issue this spring, but I grabbed this one really quick:http://www.wargamingtradecraft.com/2...workshops.html

Essentially, the issues can be summed up as:



a) Retailers are no longer allowed to break open boxes and sell bits separately.
b) No more sales of their products online. AT ALL. (except from GW)
c) No selling outside of your country even if someone calls you for an order
d) Retailers are limited to spending $500 /month on products in GW's standard line (1800-ish of the slower selling items, but still the bulk of the products available... and some new items go directly in to this category.)
Now here's another interesting point that many of you might not be aware of. I've personally (face to face) talked to a few different retailers in both Canada and the US who've told me that they were contacted by GW and offered a large shipment of free product on the basis that they sell it at full retail price.

Great deal right?

Well the retailer I spoke to in the US took the deal and was surprised to see product fly off the shelves. So naturally, he started carrying it. A few months later, GW announced they were opening their own store about 15 minutes away from him.
And I have to say that the argument at the end of"GW versus 'Everyone Else'"is probably what we'll all remember when we'll think back to what is going on within the hobby right now. And at a grassroots level, I think GW is losing and I'm not sure how long they'll be able to sustain themselves. Maybe they'll always be around and they'll be able to adjust, but after 6-7 years of their business model being based purely on increasing their margins (per item) and forcing their customers to foot those increases, I'm not so sure that they'll be able to really compete now that they need to rely on gamers buying large plastic kits en masse. Especially when we're seeing such a large explosion of alternatives, with some focusing on "cheap" models and others focusing on ultra-high quality models. ESPECIALLY with Kickstarters now, you literally would need to dedicate significant amounts of time to keep abreast of all of the news that comes in regularly from all of these alternatives. I read a number of things here and there and I can't remotely keep up.

Not sure if I've linked some of these before, but thank God there are people who do try to keep a finger on the pulse of this type of gaming atm. Tabletop Fix is probably my favorite, but scroll down the list on the right-hand column of companies and categories. Anymore if you can sculpt (or even make 3D models) then you can put out models nowadays, and if the mainstream TT gamers move into that sea of options then GW is going to QQ.

http://ttfix.blogspot.com/
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/


The other thing I wanted to mention (well really, the main thing before I got sidetracked) is the recent spate of DMCA copyright complaints that GW has been sending straight to Google. I'm glad I waited a bit because when this first hit, I think that BOLS was down as well (and people were losing their collective shit) but now they are back up - that being said, Natfka's blog athttp://natfka.blogspot.com/is still down, but thatISdirectly due to GW filing multiple DMCAs straight to Google. Now the blog atMasterminishas an interview posted with Gary (Natfka) that is probably of interest to at least a few here, and confirms the DMCA issue. It's "kind of a big thing" since Natfka was one of (if notTHE) largest rumor and leak sources out there.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/...s-returns.html

We are back up and running - full steam ahead! We are working with Google to determine exactly what occurred over the last 24 hours with the BoLS frontpage, but I would like to clear up a couple of things for the record:

1) BoLS was never targeted by any DMCA, IP, or any other violation notices.While other 3rd party sites on blogger may or may not have been targeted by Games Workshop and/or Google, BoLS never was.We are currently awaiting answers from Google regarding some very *odd* coincidences in timing between our frontpage outage, and the punitive actions taken against some of the blogger sites that were the targets of DMCA letters such as these.

DMCA Letter Archive - Chilling Effects

2) We take our security and availability seriously. Steps are being taken to prevent such an occurrence from ever happening again.
Some of the DMCAshere,hereandhere.

What's kind of crazy is that if GW wants to claim that they are trying to protect their IP rights, from what I understand they have to COMPLETELY protect it, but they may be selectively targeting NATFKA because they not only didn't like some of the leaks, but possibly so that they can sit back and claim that they have actively attempted to do so (along with Chapterhouse I suppose). What I want to know is that since you can potentially lose your sole rights if you do not take action to protect your IP (dilution), then what could happen if you only go after one or two entities? Will GW eventually be forced to become some sort of IP Nazi (more than they already are) and file DMCAs on each and every Blog that even looks at them funny so that they don't run the risk of dilution? Also, it looks like NATFKA might be able to come back up due to the differences in international laws, so this might drag our for a really long time.

Oh, and if you thought that was all...WRONG!

I've been wanting GW to update a lot of the Specialist Games range for years now - in particular, Necromunda, Blood Bowl and BFG just to name a few. And these games, well, they've already been on life support for years, but we had a glimmer of hope with the rumors of a blood bowl re-release being in the works. But apparently GW has started removing Specialist Game products wholesale or labeling them as "OOP" on their website, while someone from theUK Fulchester GW storeposted on the FB page:"Because the our range of products and games are too complex and difficult to manage, we have begun to remove (and not replace) items from our Specialist Range. It's not like anyone plays games like Battle Fleet Gothic and Necromunda anyway."I thought this was some sort of bad joke or idiot post at first, but according to some (especially Euros) they're seeing a much different listings while we Americans see this stuff still stocked via the US page. So, I dunno, but I haven't seen anything to refute this either but you can find threads on the usual 40K forums about this. This DOES kind of tick me off, but as others have said in regards to this...other companies like Mantic Games are putting out similar systems, so maybe it wont be a huge loss for gamers. Best comment from that FB page though:

Because SG's didn't contain enough space marines, GW will replace the whole range, including all the WFB range with more space marines. And the paints. They need to be space marines too. And all the staff. Space marines.

In other GW news, advance orders of the new space marines start on Saturday. Be ready to order you new space marines and get your first look in the new look magazine: WHITE SPACE MARINE.

And dont forget that tickets to the Space marine day in the NEC go on sale, got to have your space marine painted and ready to enter in SPACE MARINE ON PARADE for your chance to win a golden space marine.

Spehss Mehreens!!!!
 

Burren

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Whoever runs that company and makes those decisions, is a god-damn idiot and should not be in control. What they do is the opposite of logical, rational, or smart.