38 studios Auction Nov 14th and 15th.

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
I think both are true.

I think Curt spent money like a fool (going as far as paying for employees to be moved into their homes and maybe even their homes?) and the new dem gov acted in bad faith calling in the debt years before it was due. Or maybe it was due but they refused to renegotiate?

Idk, Curt never should’ve worked w the government. That’s on him, particularly given his opinions.

Yeah, he shoulda known better, and probably would in the current political climate. Always wiser to run a business lean, but also keep in mind the extravagant spending and employee perks seemed pretty typical in the game industry at the time, or were higher than average but praised.

And the deal Curt did was pretty much business as usual with a lot of typical and established political players. The new governor elected was openly against the deal and suddenly when he's in office he manages to prove he was right all along, by spending more to investigate and prosecute than they got from the auction. Didn't they do a long investigation to file no criminal charges in the end?

I think the game was going to suck and tank eventually anyhow, but Curt got done dirty and became a victim of his own elevated hopes and dreams.
 
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Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
10,912
19,511
Yeah, he shoulda known better, and probably would in the current political climate. Always wiser to run a business lean, but also keep in mind the extravagant spending and employee perks seemed pretty typical in the game industry at the time, or were higher than average but praised.

And the deal Curt did was pretty much business as usual with a lot of typical and established political players. The new governor elected was openly against the deal and suddenly when he's in office he manages to prove he was right all along, by spending more to investigate and prosecute than they got from the auction. Didn't they do a long investigation to file no criminal charges in the end?

I think the game was going to suck and tank eventually anyhow, but Curt got done dirty and became a victim of his own elevated hopes and dreams.

The RPG had great combat and mechanics, it just wasn’t all that fun and had too many side quests.

It would’ve been fine for them to release a 30 hour main story w minimal side quests. And yet, the theme of this story is trying to do too much and suffering for it.
 

Shmoopy

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
5,115
22,906
New moratorium deep dive on 38 Studios. FOH mentioned around 6:30. Pretty well done video. 👍

 
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Daidraco

<Gold Donor>
11,249
12,186
Anytime a failed MMO is brought up, I just have to force myself to think that I just dont know how theyre developed. I never understood why tons and tons of content, story, lore, all that shit is made and paid for before the game is even playable in a small playfield. Shitty, unoptimized netcode. Combat is awful and unresponsive. etc. etc. It always just "seems" like they put the cart before the horse. I mean surely I just have no idea how development works because the way Ive seen them built and fail each and every time is just moronic "to me".
 
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Kuro

Bronze Baron of the Realm
10,880
35,128
Because that's the fun stuff to make. Netcode is the steamed Broccoli your kid pushes around their plate to look like they ate some.
 
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Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,333
13,831
Interesting how many scandals FoH has been a part of. I kept waiting for the silhouette Utnayan interview with his voice modified, but we'd all know it was him somehow.
 
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Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
16,623
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Anytime a failed MMO is brought up, I just have to force myself to think that I just dont know how theyre developed. I never understood why tons and tons of content, story, lore, all that shit is made and paid for before the game is even playable in a small playfield. Shitty, unoptimized netcode. Combat is awful and unresponsive. etc. etc. It always just "seems" like they put the cart before the horse. I mean surely I just have no idea how development works because the way Ive seen them built and fail each and every time is just moronic "to me".
From a world building standpoint, you want to have the broadstrokes done, at least internally. Otherwise you end up with tons of inconsistency of tone and scope when it comes time to do some story telling. This is true of most fictional mediums, from a humble table top RPG all the way up to major movie franchises. But that is something best handled by a small tight group and usually the lead designer doing the bulk of that. To your point a lot of these kids of projects have too many cooks in the kitchen on that side of things, most of whom are useless. And the technical execution is always what suffers because of it.
 
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Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
18,833
15,357
All true, although it is also something to get your potential fanbase engaged. When you pitch a movie or game or product or whatever, the setting or concept goes a long way in selling it before anything is even built.

AoC or Star Citizen are a great example of that: people were sold on the idea, but it turned out to be hard to make all of that a reality that matched the vision
 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
3,200
5,222
AoC or Star Citizen are a great example of that: people were sold on the idea, but it turned out to be hard to make all of that a reality that matched the vision
This ... is a double-edged sword.

1) For AoC most people were thirsty for a new MMO that isn't WoW and that doesn't devolve into pay2win like ArcheAge, and AoC filled that void in people's heart by saying all the right things like "sandbox" and "player-driven" and "dynamic", like a lovebombing cluster B borderline woman. How much of that really was there and not smoke and mirrors is something that may or may not ever come out.

For me it was pretty obvious that the game was built to be run by big guilds who control territory/resources, in a guild vs. guild fashion, and that "flying mounts are in, but only big shots will be able to have one, we will cap them at 10-20 per server"... and that was where I was pretty much out. It was pretty clear, back then, at this exact point, that Steven was doing this to fulfill a dream--so he could later strut around proudly on his flying mount above the common footfolk.


2) Star Citizen was built on the premise to build as big of a sci-fi space game as they could, but then they were too successful, and now they could ramp up production on as many features as possible in parallel--when the basic design wasn't even done and playtested. And now we suddenly have TWO games, one persistent MMO and one single-player (Squadron 42). That game ... Those TWO games are like a Triple-A playbook of incompetent project management and both design debt and technical debt: Instead of shipping a playable bare-bones version, test with all the beta players and iterate from there, they are building an entire cruise ship with thousands of workers in parallel ... while it is already at sea on its maiden voyage.

Things like using one engine (CryEngine) and then deciding to switch to an offshoot (LumberYard), but the engine is not built for such a game, so they custimize it heavily to make it work--which is exactly like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes played out. Funnily enough, Elite: Dangerous started development after Star Citizen, and they released in 2014, the year Star Citizen should've been originally released. Let that sink in: We are over 10 years overdue.

And since they had so much money they ramped up production and features, and now they have to sell/upsell you more shit to keep the building process going, because after 10 years all the parts still don't fit together.


tl;dr: AoC was maybe a cash grab, maybe not--money was not as available as Star Citizen, and at the end the investors wanted control/their money back from ... basically a multi-level-marketing salesman.
Star Citizen had too much money, and was paid for by nerd hopes and tears, and is run by a narcisstic micro-managing perfectionist, who wants this to be his magnum opus.
 
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Pasteton

Vyemm Raider
3,340
2,530
They’ve had over a billion dollars in funding and not yet released the game. Schilling must be scratching his head wondering where his grift went wrong
 

Dalien

Registered Hodor
2,230
2,145
Anytime a failed MMO is brought up, I just have to force myself to think that I just dont know how theyre developed. I never understood why tons and tons of content, story, lore, all that shit is made and paid for before the game is even playable in a small playfield. Shitty, unoptimized netcode. Combat is awful and unresponsive. etc. etc. It always just "seems" like they put the cart before the horse. I mean surely I just have no idea how development works because the way Ive seen them built and fail each and every time is just moronic "to me".

Yeah, this is one of the big things what WoW did right. They made Elwynn Forest and that was it. They polished it, and polished some more, over and over until it was the game they wanted. Only then did they start building all of the other zones.

I'm sure they had a roadmap of other areas and a world map, lore etc planned out. The point is they didn't waste time building a bunch of zones until they thought one zone they had was "ready".
 
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mkopec

<Gold Donor>
28,643
45,295
Yeah, this is one of the big things what WoW did right. They made Elwynn Forest and that was it. They polished it, and polished some more, over and over until it was the game they wanted. Only then did they start building all of the other zones.

I'm sure they had a roadmap of other areas and a world map, lore etc planned out. The point is they didn't waste time building a bunch of zones until they thought one zone they had was "ready".
Game made by gamers. Simple as that. Those days are long gone.
 

Control

Golden Baronet of the Realm
5,948
16,618
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