5 major ISPs roll out the "six strikes" policy regarding illegal downloads.

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
2,161
786
In Australia:

If I go to the movies then I need to arrive about 20 minutes late, as the first 20 minutes is all adverts.
If I watch something on t.v, then for an hour long show it seems I get around 20 to 30 mins of adverts.
If I subscribe to a PAY TV service, I still get adverts just like TV now (when PAY TV channels started here that was not the case).

Or I could download content, using a private torrent site, which I pay for, and not have any adverts at all.
And don't forget that we get, at least on regular TV (never had pay tv so I don't know how large the gap is there), most shows 6 months - a year after they originally air in the rest of the world, if at all. A significant part of following a TV series for many people these days is participating in the public discourse that takes place as it airs, and we'd be completely unable to do so if it weren't for piracy.

BrutalTM, you still haven't explained why I (and many others here) pay for games of Steam if we're just selfish, amoral pirates who'll take anything we can for as little as we can. Why would we put down cash for games we could easily torrent if all we're trying to do is avoid paying for anything?
 
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And don't forget that we get, at least on regular TV (never had pay tv so I don't know how large the gap is there), most shows 6 months - a year after they originally air in the rest of the world, if at all. A significant part of following a TV series for many people these days is participating in the public discourse that takes place as it airs, and we'd be completely unable to do so if it weren't for piracy.

BrutalTM, you still haven't explained why I (and many others here) pay for games of Steam if we're just selfish, amoral pirates who'll take anything we can for as little as we can. Why would we put down cash for games we could easily torrent if all we're trying to do is avoid paying for anything?
What part of "you're not a hero" don't you understand?
 

Soriak_sl

shitlord
783
0
And don't forget that we get, at least on regular TV (never had pay tv so I don't know how large the gap is there), most shows 6 months - a year after they originally air in the rest of the world, if at all. A significant part of following a TV series for many people these days is participating in the public discourse that takes place as it airs, and we'd be completely unable to do so if it weren't for piracy.
I think what network execs need to understand is the way feedback loops work. Essentially, piracy creates a positive externality. People don't consume TV Shows (or movies) on their own. They're something you watch with friends, or that you talk about around the water cooler. People pirating shows means more people are able to talk about the show, which in turn increases demand to watch as well: you don't want to be the guy who doesn't know what's going on with the show everyone else talks about. But if most people don't have HBO (and could not otherwise obtain the show), then you simply don't talk about shows like Games of Throne. Which in turn lowers the utility from watching the show - you lose the social aspect of talking about it.

Microsoft understood this (maybe not originally, but surely now). Students pirated office and becoming familiar with it, which in turn created demand from businesses. You don't want to train people on new software, so you buy licenses (and support) for the tools they're already familiar with. Microsoft lost some money on pirated software, but made a fortune in corporate licensing and support. If new employees were most familiar with Open Office, employers could make that available to them - and Microsoft would lose business. So they sell Office for $10 to students - almost free and with brand recognition. They don't make a fortune on it, but they ensure businesses will be locked in to new versions of Office - because that's the one new employees will be familiar with.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,035
I think what network execs need to understand is the way feedback loops work. Essentially, piracy creates a positive externality. People don't consume TV Shows (or movies) on their own. They're something you watch with friends, or that you talk about around the water cooler. People pirating shows means more people are able to talk about the show, which in turn increases demand to watch as well: you don't want to be the guy who doesn't know what's going on with the show everyone else talks about. But if most people don't have HBO (and could not otherwise obtain the show), then you simply don't talk about shows like Games of Throne. Which in turn lowers the utility from watching the show - you lose the social aspect of talking about it.
This is precisely what Google has been pushing on the industry. Yes, you will lose money when your price drops on individual sales...but if you obtains millions of new customers, you come out ahead. The record labels constantly talk about how revenue is falling, yet they fail to mention it's revenue for their business, and not for the industry as a whole. The industry as a whole has seen a 300% jump in ticket sales, and something like a 25% jump in song sales--the problem for record labels is that many of these artists are now distributing on their own, or with very tiny labels (Who take only production cuts, IE fair cuts.)

The only reason record companies are holding on at all is because they are using their copyright libraries as leverage with radio broadcasters. Much like the media companies use their copyrights (Or money) to leverage the cable companies. Essentially they are telling these companies that if they play independent artist X, then they won't be able to lease Rihanna or other big name song Y. This keeps them firmly as the gatekeeper in radio market--and they are doing this even with internet radio. This is why, lately, you hear tons of good songs in commercials, or movies and wonder why you haven't heard them on the radio--it's because they were released independently and weren't allowed to get popular because these shit heads blocked them for trying to keep their own money--eventually if they get popular enough, the label caves and gives them a non-slave contract and you'll hear them on the radio.

But that's the thing, all this great music and TV isn't even getting made, or isn't making money when it is made, because these fucks block the way to TV--which scares off investors, because such a big market gets closed down. And there is NO REASON for these guys to have this power, except for the fact that copyright laws and end user monopolies (As I posted about before) give them such massive power over needed content for TV and Radio stations. These monopolies are killing innovation and growth in the industry, all so some executive can continue to line his pockets as nothing more than a modern bridge troll.

How anyone can sit here and be mad at pirates while these fucks have cost us billions in economic growth is beyond me. Google understands that if people could just produce on their own, and then other people could CHOOSE what they wanted through an OPEN market, rather than have some asshole dictate what they get to see, you'd have a much, much larger customer base to exploit. Which means more ad revenue, more tertiary sales of placement products, more overall sales of the actual product--but of course, people who simply trade in copyright holdings would be useless, which is why they are on the other side of the fence and fighting them in congress under the "noble" cause of protecting the poor camera men, or artists, or directors, which these terrible, life sucking pirates arestealingfrom!
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,332
11,722
They can On-demand and Flex-view all they want, but it's still more convenient to use a PVR and record it to a mkv/mp4/etc file on your computer.

That's their problem, they can't beat the cross-platform distribution and playability that has existed before Napster was even created.
 

Soriak_sl

shitlord
783
0
I wonder whether Netflix' House of Cards might not be a model for future TV. No reason to limit the program to one episode per week, no need to deal with scheduling and compete with other shows, can get a full 60mins rather than 40mins... and no limits on nudity/swearing that'd be imposed on broadcast TV.

It'd be beyond awesome if Netflix could pick up shows that probably aren't expensive to produce, but could bring in a following to subscribe to Netflix. "Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 13", for example. I think "Happy Endings" may be on it's way out, too - and maybe the same could happen to Community.

Would these things be profitable for Netflix if they could acquire the license cheaply - and maybe charge an extra fee for TV shows?
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,035
I wonder whether Netflix' House of Cards might not be a model for future TV.
It is..it's really the first shot (Actually TNG kind of was--but not quite.) in this new scenario. Its the first time major investors have undertaken a major studio that was not already green lighted for television or film distribution. Which, from an investment point of view, is a massive gamble, because TV markets dwarf even the internet. But it's going to be inevitable one way or another, as the internet grows and that method of content consumption reaches a bigger and bigger market, it will eventually eclipse TV--once that happens, you'll see all this investment money, which is now tied to having TV rights, be released for general production. From an economics perspective, it's going to grow the market a huge amount.

Eventually all shows will be made like House of Cards--and TV will simply be a surrogate to the internet (Which is what Apple and MS are working on)...That is, unless, the major cable companies are able to defeat net neutrality. If that happens then you'll not only see a continuation of the current paradigm but the internet itself will become more like cable is now (Where you have to subscribe to website packages.)
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
It is..it's really the first shot (Actually TNG kind of was--but not quite.) in this new scenario. Its the first time major investors have undertaken a major studio that was not already green lighted for television or film distribution. Which, from an investment point of view, is a massive gamble, because TV markets dwarf even the internet. But it's going to be inevitable one way or another, as the internet grows and that method of content consumption reaches a bigger and bigger market, it will eventually eclipse TV--once that happens, you'll see all this investment money, which is now tied to having TV rights, be released for general production. From an economics perspective, it's going to grow the market a huge amount.

Eventually all shows will be made like House of Cards--and TV will simply be a surrogate to the internet (Which is what Apple and MS are working on)...That is, unless, the major cable companies are able to defeat net neutrality. If that happens then you'll not only see a continuation of the current paradigm but the internet itself will become more like cable is now (Where you have to subscribe to website packages.)
I am actually not very worried about losing net neutrality. Oh I agree that we need to take it seriously and that we need to vote (or write our congressmen) every time it comes up but even so if we did lose it how could they implement the changes? For one thing lets say they put "premium" sites on a higher tier, well congratulations all they have done is kill Amazon and fund a dozen start ups (or a dozen websites that actually use Amazon in the background). But more likely they will give us Amazon, Fox, MSNBC, CNN, ESPN, Youtube and other sites free... Ooook but that still leavesbillionsof dollars that travels through the internet to who knows how many businesses every day that will suddenly see a massive drop off in clientele.

So while they are cherry picking which websites are on the basic tiers and how much of a "fee" websites have to pay to be in the basic tier they will also be fending off 1st amendment lawsuits, small and large businesses screaming at their congressmen, and citizens screaming at their congressmen and them. Throw in a few senatorial investigations but upstarts looking to make a name for themselves into "Why do you need to charge so much and provide so little when Google and other countries could do it at a fraction of the cost" with an additional does of "How is our net neutral-less internet going to interface with the rest of the world?" and you've got yourself into one hell of a bad situation.

Honestly if we ever lost net neutrality the resulting chaos would probably result in the nationalization of the Internet. Just my two cents.
 

Soriak_sl

shitlord
783
0
Net neutrality is the good thing, by the way. So we want that to happen...

The opposite is that ISPs can treat traffic from one site or another preferentially. I think it makes sense with respect to protocols. For example, you'd want voice chat/video chat to be treated preferentially to bittorrent, because latency matters for the former.

The fear is that they'd put Amazon and Netflix on the "slow" lane while at the same time putting their own offerings on the fast lane. So you can either watch streaming video with "buffering" every 30 seconds, or buy from the cable company.
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
36,266
115,021
I feel like Arrested Development is lost in all this House of Cards talk. Yeah, House of Cards is a big budget that they fronted for, but Arrested Development is a similar situation to a cable network buying the rights to a network show to produce (current example being Cougartown). That's something I definitely like to see out of Netflix.
 

EmiliaEQ_sl

shitlord
110
0
Net neutrality is the good thing, by the way. So we want that to happen...
The opposite is that ISPs can treat traffic from one site or another preferentially. I think it makes sense with respect to protocols. For example, you'd want voice chat/video chat to be treated preferentially to bittorrent, because latency matters for the former.
The fear is that they'd put Amazon and Netflix on the "slow" lane while at the same time putting their own offerings on the fast lane. So you can either watch streaming video with "buffering" every 30 seconds, or buy from the cable company.
This is why Net Neutrality is SUPER IMPORTANT
IF Comcast makes a deal with Fox w/o neutrality it can gimp every connection to "non fox Streaming".
We already have something like this in france with Free/Orange ISP cockblocking cogent (Youtube/Twitch.tv) during prime time.
 

Eonan

Doer of Things
884
168
So...are the mods hitting up this thread pretty hard? My last post is definitely MIA...
 

Eonan

Doer of Things
884
168
I found it...had a moment of full retard and confused this thread with the GoT Spoilers thread in TV.
 

Hatorade

A nice asshole.
8,170
6,565
So assuming we want too something about this who do I have to yell at? Stuck with comcast so yeah
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