Actually playing Starcraft 2
- Thread starter Zaphid
- Start date
It is honestly quite funny how bad I play if I had to use my brain at work too much. Yesterday I had a rough day and then a massive Q&A about some various technologies so I was fried. Went home to play some SC2. I did my usual TvZ build of 12/12 reaper, reactor, factory. I didn't make my fucking factory until I had271gas. Then I make my 3 cc and 2ebays to crank out upgrades. I forgot to make upgrades (mainly because I forgot to make refineries) and the Zerg was 2/2 while my bio was 0/0 lol.
Worst part is the Zerg was pretty bad at drop defense so I actually hung in there for a shocking amount of time.
Worst part is the Zerg was pretty bad at drop defense so I actually hung in there for a shocking amount of time.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I've been watching Husky's Bronze League Heroes casts.. jesus I have never laughed so hard in my life.
It does nothing to help you improve, but man is that shit hilarious.
It does nothing to help you improve, but man is that shit hilarious.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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- 294
Got some decent PvT practice in, default build of 1gate expo into stargate + forge, add 2 gates, get +1 armor, get TC, then Templar archives and squeeze in +2, charge and storm at once if possible, then add 5-7 gates. 1-2 oracles out of the stargate, but I need to learn to micro them a bit better, it's too tempting to just a-move them into a mineral line, but then they will just run into a turret and take too much damage/die instantly. Best use in a defended base is to pick off SCVs building stuff and occasional marine, bonus points for spotting medivacs. If you have storm/+2 armor chargelot and he isn't pushing with bunch of hellbats, you are in a pretty good spot, just spot for that third and try not to have yours too much behind then add robo-bay+robo to start making 2 colossi at a time (they have the same build time) and start posturing for the lategame.
Biggest problem is still well executed aggression, since your defense until like 10 minute mark is pretty weak, you basically rely on MsC, so if there's stuff coming your way, cannons and earlier gateways are your friend. You will also be forced to spend gas on units instead of all that sweet tech, but you need to do that wisely, because if you overdo it, you will get roled by the next timing.
Biggest problem is still well executed aggression, since your defense until like 10 minute mark is pretty weak, you basically rely on MsC, so if there's stuff coming your way, cannons and earlier gateways are your friend. You will also be forced to spend gas on units instead of all that sweet tech, but you need to do that wisely, because if you overdo it, you will get roled by the next timing.
I have a new TvT build I'm really digging. Basically it is 2rax reaper.
12/12 Reaper
14 Rax (I generally hide this somewhere near my base like behind my natural minerals or something just so he doesn't know for sure it's 2rax)
Reaper
OC
Depot
*You have to wait for all these and go in that order*
Rally your reapers to one another and keep pumping them. One of two things will happen. You will win outright because the opponent went like 1 Rax FE (make sure to kill the SCV making the CC just in case you don't win here and now) or eventually the opponent will get enough units to deal with your reapers. Generally if they do the popular marine -> reactor -> factory build this happens at around the time the second hellion comes out.
However what you're doing behind this is important. Since reapers are so cheap at 400 minerals you CC at the natural. At the next 400 minerals you CC in the main. Next 100 minerals you make a bunker at your natural. Once your reapers stop being effective cut them off. However you should probably have 4-5 remaining to softly contain the Terran. So that means your natural goes up before his and, generally, your third CC goes up before his natural starts. Once you cut off the reapers tech lab one rax and reactor the second. Stim asap and rally marines to the bunker. Throw down a third rax and your 2nd and 3rd gases. Factory -> Port to reactor out some medivacs to give him even more hell. However you want to play though is open to you. You can obviously mech off this by not getting stim.
Obviously this build works best on reaper friendly maps. Don't think I'd do it on a map where I can't access the main without walking up (or very near) the natural's ramp.
12/12 Reaper
14 Rax (I generally hide this somewhere near my base like behind my natural minerals or something just so he doesn't know for sure it's 2rax)
Reaper
OC
Depot
*You have to wait for all these and go in that order*
Rally your reapers to one another and keep pumping them. One of two things will happen. You will win outright because the opponent went like 1 Rax FE (make sure to kill the SCV making the CC just in case you don't win here and now) or eventually the opponent will get enough units to deal with your reapers. Generally if they do the popular marine -> reactor -> factory build this happens at around the time the second hellion comes out.
However what you're doing behind this is important. Since reapers are so cheap at 400 minerals you CC at the natural. At the next 400 minerals you CC in the main. Next 100 minerals you make a bunker at your natural. Once your reapers stop being effective cut them off. However you should probably have 4-5 remaining to softly contain the Terran. So that means your natural goes up before his and, generally, your third CC goes up before his natural starts. Once you cut off the reapers tech lab one rax and reactor the second. Stim asap and rally marines to the bunker. Throw down a third rax and your 2nd and 3rd gases. Factory -> Port to reactor out some medivacs to give him even more hell. However you want to play though is open to you. You can obviously mech off this by not getting stim.
Obviously this build works best on reaper friendly maps. Don't think I'd do it on a map where I can't access the main without walking up (or very near) the natural's ramp.
Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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HoTS multiplayer is really fun right now, but it is not without it's problems. I am a Zerg player.
With Ultra's and Vipers in Tier 3, Zerg really has a great incentive to tech up now. They are insanely fun units to use.
- ZvZ'sare really boring. Who ever gets the most Muta's wins, because Hydra's are a terrible anti-air answer, being so squishy and with the hit and run ability of Muta's. Corrupter's are still a joke, like they have been since day 1 of WoL. Maybe Muta's are too good, or at least in this match up they are.
- ZvTare extremely frustrating. Zerg's lack of options to dispose of Widowmines, without absorbing hits is pretty limited... like range enhanced Hyrda's, which is mid-tier 2. Plus their mobile detection is tier 2 as well. Also, Hell-bats seem way too good for their cost at the moment too.
- ZvPis a really fun matchup. The balance of aggression to expansion is delicate and the Toss death ball will still roll over you fast if you are not prepared. Plus the Oracle and fast DT's give the Protoss some options to keep you on your toes early if you don't scout properly. I love getting the Viper in this matchup and pulling in Colossus and other high value units. I still haven't found an answer to Sky Toss, other than don't let them get it.
With Ultra's and Vipers in Tier 3, Zerg really has a great incentive to tech up now. They are insanely fun units to use.
On the test map they're experimenting with having spores do +bio to encourage spores against mass muta
It would leave the door open for hydralisk/roach as a mid game composition. The issue with going hydras against muta is the mutas are just way too mobile. So the muta player will be on 3 bases and you can't defend all 3 of your bases at once with a hydralisk ball. I believe their idea is to make it so the spores would be able to defend the bases. My issue is once you get enough mutas and they can start 2 shotting spores does it really matter how strong they hit the muta?
Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Ok, so if you can defend your base well enough with static defense spores, they are trying to force an engagement with your hydra ball... and thus discourage going mass Mutas.
I can kind of visualize it in theory, but I still would like to see in practice. Something tells me, Muta/Lings would still win the day.
I can kind of visualize it in theory, but I still would like to see in practice. Something tells me, Muta/Lings would still win the day.
I wouldn't imagine they would. You open with some kind of roach opener and get +1/+1. Move to lair and you are morphing +1/+1 hydras immediately while researching range then off-creep speed. If your opponent goes muta then surround your third with spores while using your hydras to bounce between your main and natural. Once you have a decent roach/hydra force spore up your other bases, march to your opponent's third. Lings melt to +1 Roaches (assuming they didn't get +1 carapace) and the Hydras can take mutas on in a heads-up engagement.
It works out in my head at least. Granted that was a ton of theorycrafting which generally means the idea is shit.
It works out in my head at least. Granted that was a ton of theorycrafting which generally means the idea is shit.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
- 5,862
- 294
Make queens do air splash, kills mass VRs and mutas.
ZvP vs air toss, the only guy I have seen solving the air toss problem was Effort vs some random guy, where he basically didn't care how many bases the toss took and whittled him down with swarm host/brood/infestor/ultra and lots of positioning. Lategame toss has like 6-7 different units and I seen the zerg trying to counter it with 3-4. Basically you always have to keep poking and proding, mostly with those free units, because if you sit on your ass, you lose. It switched and some zergs have become too used to the turtle to win ZvP they have trouble adjusting.
ZvP vs air toss, the only guy I have seen solving the air toss problem was Effort vs some random guy, where he basically didn't care how many bases the toss took and whittled him down with swarm host/brood/infestor/ultra and lots of positioning. Lategame toss has like 6-7 different units and I seen the zerg trying to counter it with 3-4. Basically you always have to keep poking and proding, mostly with those free units, because if you sit on your ass, you lose. It switched and some zergs have become too used to the turtle to win ZvP they have trouble adjusting.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Like Quin said giving queens splash wouldn't really solve the problem. It would just make it so getting into muta on muta battles near your base would be better to have the queen assist. The mutas would still just magic box over the queen, kill it then ravage the fringe bases before hydras could support. Hell even with splash it wouldn't matter queen would die in 1 or 2 volleys. Who cares if all your 4HP/s 4.00 MS mutas all get hit for 20 damage in the process.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
- 5,862
- 294
I thought that with the spore change, the problem is that stuff can still get 2shot with stacked mutas, but any kind of splash is brutal against that. I don't think there should be simple answer to mutas, so make the AA require 2 factors to shut them down efficiently.
Well if they want spores to be a no muta zone they could make it so the spore does like 15+50bio. But that would be stupidly excessive.
I'm trying something a bit different out in TvZ. Lately it feels like Zergs have figured out how to mitigate most of the damage mines can inflict at least in a straight up engagement. I'm preferring the consistent and reliable damage the Hellbat is offering lately. I'm still refining the BO but it looks something like:
12/12 Reaper -> Reactor -> 2x marines
Factory @ 100g
Factory <=> Rax -> Tech
Float Rax from Tech
Rax -> Tech -> Stim
2x Rax -> Reactors
Armory
2x gas
Fact <=> Open Tech Lab (from Rax previously)
Upgrade hellion transformation
Starport @ open Reactor
Push @ 8'ish Hellbats + 16'ish marines + 2 medivacs w/ 2 more medivacs rallied
My only concern is the possible all-in nature of the build. I delay my third and delay my ebays to get this strong push rolling. I figure while the push is happening I can rely upon Hellbats for defence and cut marine production to get out my 3rd CC and 2x ebays.
12/12 Reaper -> Reactor -> 2x marines
Factory @ 100g
Factory <=> Rax -> Tech
Float Rax from Tech
Rax -> Tech -> Stim
2x Rax -> Reactors
Armory
2x gas
Fact <=> Open Tech Lab (from Rax previously)
Upgrade hellion transformation
Starport @ open Reactor
Push @ 8'ish Hellbats + 16'ish marines + 2 medivacs w/ 2 more medivacs rallied
My only concern is the possible all-in nature of the build. I delay my third and delay my ebays to get this strong push rolling. I figure while the push is happening I can rely upon Hellbats for defence and cut marine production to get out my 3rd CC and 2x ebays.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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- 511
Sacrificing a 25m ling to get a widowmine is extremely cost efficient. Unless terran has a lot of support with his widow mines you can sacrifice a few lings and you'll more than likely still trade way more effectively from splash damage doing so much to the terran's bio. If you have a baneling nest and you don't have detection you can detonate banelings on top of widow mines to kill them, even without detection. Widow mines are ok for map control and great for protecting a flank/retreat, but aren't really an aggressive option, except widow mine drops of course.